Update to my Ebay bag case ***Claim Dismissed***

[ShonaDK]

Please be gentle as I am new here.

I purchased a beach bag from eBay in July for total £91.45. Found on measurements when it arrived, to be significantly larger than advertised. Sent seller pics. Seller told me I had photographed it in a way it would never be used so refused return, but it was an unstructured fabric bag so that was exactly how it looked worn. For info, this is an individual but they have multiple of the same bag listed in their shop. 

I opened a case with eBay who said seller had to accept return. Seller accepted return with 2nd class postage but not covering the cost of the bag. They already had bad feedback from someone else saying they lied about returns so I was concerned and queried it. They refused to budge, so next day went to print the label, only it didn’t work and the link said I had been fully refunded. I messaged them to explain I couldn’t return the bag as the label no longer worked, but I didn’t want it. I asked if they could send me a new label. They didn’t reply do after about a month, I donated to charity as had no use for the bag.

They then sent me a grammatically awful warning letter threatening me with small claims and insisting upon immediate bag return. I explained that I had disposed of the bag (via eBay messaging) and advised continued harassment, I would go to the police as they had previously sent many unpleasant messages and said they were suing lots of buyers and were going to sue me… that I was an idiot who didn’t understand the law etc etc. They have been really nasty to me in every message, and have even said in the small claims summons that I likely suffer from mental health problems, drunkenness, or drug use.

Ebay  said they never got involved with the dispute and the seller refunded me and closed the case themselves.

They are asking if there is a court case, it be heard in London as they are registered disabled.  I live in Newcastle upon Tyne. Also, that they get the bag AND 8% interest per day on the cost of the bag from 8th August forward. However, they have calculated this themselves to be an additional £732 per day. 

EBay have said I have followed all their rules and it was the seller who refunded me, not eBay. EBay have sent me a transcript email supporting that I followed their T&Cs to the letter. Ebay said I was under no obligation to return the bag as the seller chose to close the case and refund me without receiving the bag first. 

Very distressed. Please advise what I can do. I contacted my home insurance legal advice line who were useless and very neutral suggesting the seller could win this. I would appreciate some support.  I am willing tbh to refund the cost of the bag, but not £732  per day which would total £30000. 

[ShonaDK]

I have attached as requested. 

Thanks

 

 

Thanks all for your help so far btw

PAPLOC +bits of court claimform.pdf

[ShonaDK]

Hope this is OK. 

Which Court have you received the claim from ? Newcastle County Court

Name of the Claimant ? Sergio Graft

 How many defendant's  joint or self ? One self

 Date of issue –  11/08/23 

date of AOS - 29-09-23

date to file defence - 13-10-23

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for – 

£85 bag + £6.50 postage. Seller refunded me before I could return as bag was larger than the measurements they gave. I contacted them to offer return 12/07/23 as the old postage label did not work so I asked for a new one. Next communication was pre-action protocol dated 02/08/23

 

What is the total value of the claim? Approx £30000 according to seller
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes
 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No
 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? N/A

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? N/A
 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After
 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? On line ebay user agreement
 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? N/A
 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. No
 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? No
 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? No
 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? No
 

Why did you cease payments? n /a

What was the date of your last payment? n/a
 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Yes as detailed above
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? N/a
 

[ShonaDK]

I attach the warning letter pre action protocol and the claim. 

The Brief Details of claim on page 1 just says: 'Unpaid goods in Defendant's posession.'

redactedclaim.pdf

[ShonaDK]

Sorry you are right. I did miss this as it is written further down. Claimant has not completed the bottom right amount claimed / court fee / legal representative costs. This is left blank. I saw their sums and my brain started swimming

claimpage1.pdf

[ShonaDK]

That's what I have photographed with info redacted.

On top of that is the claimant's address and mine and the rest of the form has been left blank.

It does say that value of claim is <£1000.

I can rescan with more of the image just blacked out if that is preferable?

Thanks so much to you all for helping. 

[ShonaDK]

Apologies: I have not done this level of word processing in many years so I am not up to date with stuff.

Tried to redact as much as I could but some of it just does not seem to have worked. It's not that I am not trying.

Please bear in mind this is the first time this has ever happened to me and I just don't use these programmes - just to read and edit and maybe write 1-2 letters a year. I hope I got it right this time

 

4 hours ago, lee19921992 said:

looking at the attachments, this looks like a fake claim form what the seller has made and printed themselves, i maybe wrong...

Sadly it is real. I called the county court this morning with a query and they confirmed that it is real

alltogetheragainforum.pdf

[ShonaDK]

Yes I do. I returned it by special delivery yesterday. Would you like me to upload a copy please? I have not yet completed N9B. 

Thanks

[ShonaDK]

Sorry I misunderstood. Sure, I will probably get a chance on Friday when I can sit down with a clear head and will upload a first draf. Yes, I did say I would be defending. The lady at the court said I had to post it so I did. I didn't realise I could email. 

[ShonaDK]

Apologies for delay, I took my time over this response as suggested. It is written with the assistance of Chat GPT! Would appreciate feedback please? 

I am writing to present my defence in the small claims case filed by [Seller's Name] against me.

I am the defendant in this matter, and I dispute the claims made by the claimant.

The transaction was made via eBay platform and in both buying and selling, both parties agree with eBay’s contract known as their ‘User Agreement.’ The transaction was conducted in accordance with those Terms and Conditions.

I respectfully request that the court dismiss the plaintiff's claims and find in my favour, as I believe I have not breached any obligations under eBay's terms and conditions.

I kindly request that the court dismisses the exaggerated claims made by the claimant and encourages a fair and equitable resolution to this dispute. I believe that the claimant's actions and exaggerated claims are intended to cause undue distress and financial burden on my part, which I consider to be unfair and unjust.

I have evidence of communications that can be provided that the claimant has elected to pursue a small claims case without first attempting amicably to resolve the issue through  eBay, or even after the case was in fact closed by the claimant themselves.

Background:
1. The dispute in question arises from a transaction on eBay made 30/07/23 where I purchased an item from the claimant for £85 + £6.50 postage (Royal Mail Second Class Tracked 48h Delivery). The item provided did not match the measurements specified the seller and was unsuitable for my usage.

The claimant, as the seller, seems to have refunded the amount to me inadvertently before I had the opportunity to return the item. This cancelled the Royal Mail Second Class return label that the seller had provided via eBay which according to the Royal Mail website insured the return of the item for a value of £20 for loss or damage.

2. Breach of eBay's Terms and Conditions: eBay's terms and conditions, which both the  plaintiff and I agreed to when using the platform, outline the responsibilities and expectations of both buyers and sellers. I contend that the claimant breached eBay's terms and conditions in the following ways:

a. Item Description Accuracy:

The claimant misrepresented the item in their listing,  describing it as [Description in Listing], but the item I received was significantly different and did not match the description provided.

This constitutes a breach of eBay's policy regarding accurate item descriptions.

b. Refund and Return Policy:

The claimant refused to honour eBay's return policy, which allows buyers to return items that are significantly not as described. Their unwillingness to cooperate with the return process contravenes eBay's terms and conditions. eBay in fact
stepped in and insisted that they accept the return.

c. Failure to Resolve Issues:

I attempted to communicate with the claimant to address the issues with the transaction, but they were initially hostile and later, after the refund, unresponsive, which violates eBay's policy requiring sellers to engage in dispute resolution.

Attempted Resolution:
Evidence can be provided that the claimant was uncooperative and aggressive in their communication throughout. I had reported their resistance to allowing me to return the item to eBay. Their decision was that the seller had to accept my return. I can furthermore provide communication sent to support me from eBay that it was the seller who closed the
case and not eBay which provides further evidence that they have misrepresented the situation in the claim.

The seller had threatened me that they personally would issue me with a County Court Judgment (CCJ) on multiple occasions, which created an atmosphere of hostility and made it difficult to reach an amicable solution.

After realising that I had received a full refund, I immediately contacted the claimant to arrange for the return of the item (12/07/23). However, the claimant did not respond. I was not able to return the item without knowing the seller’s address which I did not have as the return label had been cancelled when the seller refunded me and the link no longer worked.

The claimant, prior to the refund, made multiple threats that they personally planned to ‘issue me with a CCJ.’ I can only assume that this was done to cause me distress.

Pre-Action Protocol Letter:
The claimant sent me a Pre-Action Protocol letter dated 02/08/23, giving me a 7-day notice to return the item. In my response to the claimant, I explained that I had already donated the item to charity, and it was no longer in my possession. I was honest about my actions.

Overestimation of Compensation:
The claimant is seeking compensation that they have miscalculated at a rate of ‘0732p per  day.’ However, according to UK government guidelines, the compensation for late payment is typically calculated based on the Bank of England base rate plus 8%. As of my last knowledge update in September 2021, the Bank of England base rate was significantly lower
than 8%. Therefore, the claimant's calculation of compensation appears to be unjustifiably inflated.

Furthermore, I note that the calculation is incorrect:
According to the UK Government website, under ‘make a court claim for money,’ the interest is worked out as follows when one is owed financial compensation by a BUSINESS. eBay have confirmed that the claimant is an individual seller, not a business. I am an individual and not a business.

The UK government website states the following: ‘if you’re owed money by another business, you can charge interest on a late commercial payment. For other types of debt, the rate is usually 8%. 

To calculate this, use the steps below:
Work out the yearly interest: take the amount you’re claiming and multiply it by 0.08 (which  is 8%).
Work out the daily interest: divide your yearly interest from step 1 by 365 (the number of days in a year).
Work out the total amount of interest: multiply the daily interest from step 2 by the number  of days the debt has been overdue. 

Thus for an item costing £85, 8% per annum would be £6.80 at a daily rate when divided by 365 would be 1.9p per day.
The claimant has requested the sum, missing a decimal point of 0732p per day from 18/08/23. I am unclear from their documentation why they have selected this particular date.

Venue Choice:
The claimant has requested that the case be heard in their local jurisdiction, which is approximately 290 miles away from my residence. This distance would incur substantial costs and inconvenience for me as the defendant. Given the financial burden and practical difficulties involved in traveling to the claimant's location, I respectfully request that the court consider alternative options to ensure a fair and accessible resolution for both parties.

Alternative Options:
To promote fairness and accessibility in this case, I propose the following alternatives:

a. Remote Hearing:
In today's digital age, remote hearings have become a widely accepted and efficient  means of conducting court proceedings. I propose that the case be conducted remotely via video conference or teleconference, allowing both parties to participate without the need for physical presence.

b. Proceedings in Absentia:
Alternatively, if the court deems it appropriate, the case could proceed in absentia, where both the defendant and the claimant present their arguments and evidence in writing or through legal representation. The judge could then decide the case based on the merits of the written submissions and evidence provided.

Counterclaim:
In light of the claimant's breaches of eBay's terms and conditions, I believe that I was entitled to a full refund of the purchase price, including any associated shipping costs. I also request that the claimant be held accountable for any additional costs or losses I may incur if I am required to travel to London as a result of this transaction.

Request for Fair Resolution:
I want to emphasize my commitment to a fair and just resolution of this matter. My request for an alternative hearing format is not intended to evade responsibility but rather to address the practical challenges and costs associated with traveling a significant distance for a small claims case.
In consideration of the claimant's disability and my own circumstances, I believe that one of the proposed alternative options would facilitate a more accessible and equitable resolution for both parties. I trust that the court will take into account the principles of fairness and accessibility when deciding on the format of the hearing.

I kindly request that the court consider my proposal for a remote hearing or a proceeding in absentia to ensure a fair and efficient resolution of this dispute. I am ready and willing to cooperate fully with the court's decision and provide any required information or documentation to support my case.

I am willing to resolve this matter fairly and in accordance with the law. I acknowledge my responsibility in the accidental refund. I did offer to return the item to the seller even after the eBay dispute was closed by the seller. I was unable to do this without a postage label, or even knowing the seller’s address.

Had they responded to me, I would have returned the item rather than electing to do what I thought was honourable in donating the item for the profit of a local charity.

In conclusion, I request that the court considers my defence seriously and impartially. I am committed to finding a just resolution to this matter and am willing to cooperate with any reasonable request from the court.

I look forward to the court's decision and remain available for any further information or
proceedings related to this case.
Yours sincerely,

 

[ShonaDK]

Oh OK lol sorry I spent too much time then. Can you link me to a good defence summary here please as I looked but could not find easily.

Thanks

S 

[ShonaDK]

Thanks. Will give it another shot later in the week. That's really helpful

 

[ShonaDK]

Sorry took a while as was poorly. Here is my first go at drafted defence.

Accoring to the gov website, it is £7.23 per year rather than per day.

Thanks again all for your help and support. 

Make a court claim for money: Claim the interest - GOV.UK

WWW.GOV.UK

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How to take legal action if someone owes you money (small claims court), how much it costs, what happens next. Includes information from...

I believe that the claim is unfounded, and I set out a comprehensive defence of my position below.

I would like to highlight that eBay conducted a thorough investigation into this matter and found that the seller, Mr Sergio Graft, was at fault in this situation. This determination by eBay clearly indicates that I acted within the guidelines and policies set forth by eBay during this transaction. This included receiving a full refund for my transaction without having
returned the item in question, as acknowledged by my communication with eBay on 12th September 2023.

Throughout the course of our interaction, the claimant displayed persistent rudeness and uncooperative behaviour, which made the transaction process challenging, and unpleasant for both parties. I maintained a respectful and courteous demeanour throughout our communication, as evidenced by our message exchange on eBay’s platform.

Despite having made a further attempt to contact the claimant, even after the transaction was closed, to request a postage label (as I did not know his address), I received no such reply and, after a period of 14 days had elapsed, I donated the item in question to charity on the basis that I had adhered to all eBay policies governing our transaction. Furthermore, I have adhered to all of the terms and conditions outlined in eBay’s policies, including timely payment and providing accurate information.

I have always been a responsible eBay buyer and have a positive transaction history to support my defence.

In light of eBay’s findings and my commitment to adhering to eBay’s policies, I request that this claim against me be dismissed immediately please.

I believe that justice and fairness should prevail in this matter, and I respectfully ask the court to review the evidence and
come to the same conclusion.

I am fully prepared to cooperate with any further inquiries, or provide additional evidence to support my position. I am confident that, upon a thorough review of the facts, it will become evident that I should not be held responsible for the instant claim made against me.

 

[ShonaDK]

They said 18th August in their warning letter thingy.

Don't know where they pulled that date from.

I will have another go.

The defence was based on suggestions made by citizens advice about what I should write. 

You are signposting me to a different form to the one I have been asked to complete.

Not sure if the process is different in this area?

The form I have to complete is this one. 

 

[ShonaDK]

Sorry I cannot work out on this forum how to reply to my previous post. I got free legal advice from student solicitors and their supervisor at a local university which was really helpful.

The seller's claim was thrown out of court when I actually attended. I even offered to settle the full cost of the bag out of court, which he rejected as he pretended he should be paid at the level of a solicitor for the case and would only settle for £3000. Anyway, in the event, he got nothing