Amazon/UPS £1200 Macbook lost by UPS when i used My Own Returns postage label

[jk2054]

Hello,

I recently sent a return via UPS to amazon and amazon say they never record it arriving. UPS opened an investigation, sent claim docs and said they paid the claim, and have now turned around and say they’re not paying the claim as it was delivered.

I’ve issued UPS with a notice to pay and they have failed to obide by this. 

 

What would my next steps be? I assume I’d be suing UPS not amazon given UPS have originally said they lost it and paid a claim? 

 

Will donate after resolution - TIA

[BankFodder]

Could you set out the story in a chronological bullet pointed form please.

It is difficult to understand the story so far particularly because you have said at 1 point that UPS paid and then later on they didn't pay.

Start from the beginning

[jk2054]

Yep, its super confusing, please see a timed bullet point list of events below:

13 june - claim docs issued, UPS unable to prove delivery, UPS accept that shipment was lost

Tue 20 june - told that payment of £1007.49 will be processed within 10-12 days

20 June - payment amount adjustment was accepted (my shipment was £1200 but UPS max declarable value is £1,000 so I had to accept £1,007.49 which I did)

20 june - paperwork processing - query as to when payment will be made is raised

20 june - told waiting for system to update to the adjusted amount, then payment will be made

22 june - UPS mark claim as paid without paying

5 July - UPS change their position to say goods delivered no payment will be made.

Amazon remain of the position that they do not have any record of the shipment at their facility

The label was purchased privately, it was NOT an amazon return label, so they have no liability (which I believe is correct since UPS have previously admitted losing it)

[BankFodder]

Thank you. Have you got the message from UPS saying that they will pay?

Also send an sar to UPS.

You haven't told us what the item was .

Was it properly declared?

Why were you returning it to Amazon

 

 

Did you buy the insurance policy for it

[jk2054]

Thank you for your response.

I do,

I have one message where they say "According our terms and conditions section 9-9.4 UPS it could be only liable for the maximum liability of your parcel (£1000.00). 

We will include also the shipping charges according the Invoice (XXXXXXXX)*£7.49 (Excluding the declared value charge £5.00). Making a total payment amount of £1007.49 and you should receive the credit on an estimate timeframe of 5-12 working days. "

and another message where it says

" Hi, the status of your claim has been updated. We have paid the claim for this parcel. UPS Next steps - the claim has been paid. 

The item was a macbook and was returned because I selected the wrong keyboard layout by accident. 

I declared the value fully and paid for their extra cover.

 

SAR done .

[BankFodder]

Okay.

My view is that despite their terms and conditions which purport to limit their liability, if you have properly declared the value of the item and they have accepted on that basis then that overrides the terms and conditions. Of course this needs to be tested in court.

You have paid them an insurance premium – and of course this is unnecessary and unenforceable. However the most important thing here is that they now say that the item was delivered.

Have they given you any evidence of the delivery? Have you asked for anything?

It is certainly UPS that you will be suing that you need to get your ducks in a row so that you are fully prepared.

Have you done a substantial amount a reading of the stories on this sub- forum?

[jk2054]

Hello,

For your first sentence, can you elaborate - UPS maximum liability for a UK shipment is £1,000. Surely I can't challenge that, because its not an insurance related thing, its their terms for all parcels? 

For the proof of delivery, I have asked, and they have simply provided a document earlier today that says "delivered and received by amazon", however they have stated that each parcel isnt scanned at the point of delivery and is only scanned at the depot, and prior to this they have sent numerous documents to show that the parcel wasn't delivered such as the initial claims form, the claim paid message, and various emails in which they accept the claim.  

 

I have done my reading, especially with the EVRi cases, and I'm assuming I can pretty much apply the same principle but I'm just making sure I do everything correctly before I make an error that makes my claim harder as I've never done one before . I've sent them a LBA and they've completely ignored it.

 

I assume my next step is to issue a claim against them - for my brief details im planning to explain that the shipment wasn't received, UPS investigation failed to find it, and they declared it lost, and despite saying they paid the claim UPS never did this and that for remedy I seek the £1,007 or the full value of the laptop (I'm still not sure on which one of these I can do, so if you can let me know I'd appreciate that).

 

Then for my POC I'd assume I'd just go more into detail on the timeline, as well as my proof from amazon where they say they haven't received it. Focus on UPS accepting the claim originally, as well as admitting that they didnt scan the physical parcel at the time of delivery. Should I bring up UPS saying they paid when they didn't or is that irrelevant given the main part of the dispute is now whether they should pay or not rather than them agreeing they should have paid but then not paying?

 

 

[BankFodder]

What value did you declare? You are limited by that in any claim.

You have sent them a letter of claim. Please will you post it up here.

Also, it would be a good idea if you post up your particulars of claim here before you click it off

[jk2054]

Well UPS don't let you "Declare" the value, they simply give you the option to add insurance up to £1,000. I was never asked to imput the value of the goods when sending the parcel.

I have attached the letter of claim to this in PDF format.

Please advise if you think anything's missing I think its slightly different to the other ones I've seen on this forum, but unfortunately I already sent it by the time i came across this, but I've largely copied the template from Citizens advice website. If you think I should send another please let me know.

Thanks

 

 

_UPS letter 1Z2T99K36800001615.pdf

[BankFodder]

Firstly, what date did you send a letter of claim?

Secondly, was it really Citizens Advice that advise you any to give seven days? The minimum is 14 days. I have seen letters from CA giving 28 days – but never seven.

Thirdly, you refer simply to the payment of the money – but not to the loss of the item which actually is the principal issue – the breach of contract.

[jk2054]

Hi, I sent multiple, In total they've had over 28 anyway. CA gave me the template for the letter, I just inserted 7 days because they already had another letter prior, and various emails which they acknowledged.

I'm aware of that, which is why I asked you if you think I should send another since they're refusal to pay? (my previous letter before claim was before they decided to now say they're not paying - I sent the letter above after they said claim paid, but when I still hadn't received it.)

Please let me know your thoughts, I do appreciate your help.

 

[dx100uk]

just type

no need to keep hitting quote!!

 

dx

 

[BankFodder]

Have a look at the proposed letter of claim below.

I think it's about time to stop mucking around. This is serious and this court claim is not a bluff. That means that the expiry of the 14 day limit – day 15 – you will click of your claim which you will already have fully prepared and ready to go.
By sending a series of letters of claim setting out deadlines which then you never follow up, you lose credibility and you undermine your position.

If you aren't sure whether you want to do this then you may as well stop now

 

Quote

Dear XXX

Letter of Claim – reference number XXX

On XXX date I contracted with you to deliver a parcel containing a MacBook computer to an address in the UK.

The parcel was not delivered and in fact in correspondence dated XXX and XXX you admitted that you had lost the parcel and at one point offered to reimburse me the insured value of £XXX.

Since then you have reneged on your promise and furthermore, you have now tried to say that the MacBook was delivered even though you have not provided any evidence and Amazon themselves say that nothing has been received.

I note your own comments that you only scan items at your depot and you do not scan them at the point of delivery. The evidence is fairly clear that you did in fact dispatch the MacBook to its destination but it was stolen en route because as you know, it never arrived.

You have now changed your position and you have declined to reimburse me.

If I do not receive full reimbursement of £XXX within 14 days I shall begin a court claim against you in order to recover my money plus interest plus court costs, and without any further notice.

Yours

 

See if there is anything in the above letter which is wrong or if there is something you want to add then let us know.

[jk2054]

Yeah see about deadlines. I sent the first letter they said they'd pay within 10 days. That passed, so I sent them another letter saying to pay as they had overriden their time frame, that letter arrived and they said paid even though it now transpires they didn't

 

Is there a particular point I went wrong with the above or not?

[BankFodder]

Yes, the fact that you set a timescale and a deadline for action – and then you didn't follow it up. No point in making a threat if you aren't going to go ahead with it.

I'll huff and I'll puff and then… err ....

 

As it happens, your 10 day deadline didn't conform to the pre-action protocol for this kind of thing although you would probably have found that you are dealing with unqualified paralegal drones who probably  wouldn't have even spotted that and wouldn't have leveraged it against you.

 

Do you have written confirmation from Amazon that they didn't receive the parcel?

 

[jk2054]

I’ll take what you said on board thanks for the advice. I’ll update it later and send it off.

 

I do have written confirmation from amazon yes

[BankFodder]

I have just noticed that you are running this thread under two different usernames. I'm going to merge them – which one you want to keep

[jk2054]

This one please, didnt even notice they were seperate sorry about that

Please let me know what you think of this.

Dear XXX
Letter of Claim – reference number XXX
On XXX date I contracted you to deliver a parcel containing a MacBook computer to an address
in the UK.

The parcel was not delivered and in fact in correspondence dated XXX and XXX you admitted that you had lost the parcel and at one point offered to reimburse me the insured value of £XXX.

Since then you have reneged on your promise and furthermore, you have now tried to say that the MacBook was delivered even though you have not provided any evidence and Amazon themselves say that nothing has been received.

I note your own comments that you only scan items at your depot and you do not scan them at the point of delivery.

The evidence is fairly clear that you did in fact dispatch the MacBook to its destination but it was lost/stolen en route because as you know, it never arrived.

You have now changed your position and you have declined to reimburse me.

If I do not receive full reimbursement of £XXX within 14 days I shall begin a court claim against you in order to recover my money plus interest plus court costs, and without any further notice.

Yours

 

I've just changed a few small things so it should be good, but please do let me know if you think I've missed something.

 

Sorry I can't tell if im Judging too early but given the reaction would that claim letter be good to send?

TIA 

[jk2054]

Hello,

 

Would I be good to send this off?

[BankFodder]

We already gave you a like for it

[jk2054]

Thanks for confirming, I wasn't too sure sorry about that.

[BankFodder]

I had imagined that it would already have been posted yesterday

[jk2054]

Just posted now, should I begin to draft my POC now?

[BankFodder]

Yes

[jk2054]

Hey,

 

I'm working on my POC.

 

Would I base that I want to claim the full value of the macbook of the consumer rights act 2015 meaning they were double selling me insurance or would I base it on UPS's terms and conditions where it says it must not exceed the value of USD 50,000 and me selecting the highest level of cover I could, and as such since my value was below USD 50,000 I am entitled to claim the full value?

 

If I did It based on the latter, what would I claim in regards to the maximum I declared being up to £1,000. Would I claim that I was unable to declare the actual value of the package since this option was never available and instead I selected and paid for the maxium cover I could, and since I did not exceed UPS maximum value, I can claim up to the actual value of my goods, since the value falls below the maximum UPS liability value of USD 50,000?

 

TIA