Lowell PAPLOC now Claimform - old E-ON £3K+ bill

[autumn53]

The letter is in my name addressed to me. 

[autumn53]

The data is mine and has been disclosed to me in a letter addressed to me. 

[autumn53]

Yes that is correct.

[autumn53]

Thanks for your patience with me. I have been reading the posts here about the process.

 

Yes I will talk to my husband when he comes home and see how he feels about proceeding. Thank you so much for your time and prompt help. 

[autumn53]

Hi my husband has chickened out. He says he will pay-up. Says he'll work harder and set aside a monthly sum if EoN agrees. He is like that. Towing the line. 

 

Please forgive us for being compliant and meek. We have never done this before, taking on a giant firm like this. Only claimed PPI with Barclays once long ago when we were young with a lot of help by kind people here. But back then we just raised the SAR followed by a letter requesting refund and the money came to the account a few weeks later.

 

Will it be worth a try to request Eon to lower the amount and allowing us a monthly direct debit?

 

 

[autumn53]

It is depressing to see Eon getting away with this robbery and hubris. I will talk to my husband again as I cannot watch him burn himself out to pay these people. Meanwhile, I have been staying up a lot,  very anxious wide awake up until the morning. Always a constant undercurrent of this debt's fear.

 

I think suing them for not responding to my husband's SAR will be a good start. Unfortunately, I have only the digital copy of his SAR and no proof of postage. I do have the receipt for my Royal Mail Recorded Delivery for that Reminder we sent.

 

The Small Claim process itself seems very simple and smooth from what I gathered reading up here.

1. We need to write a Letter Before Action giving 14 days to Eon to which they may or may not make a counter claim.

2. Following this we will need to prepare a Claim Form and pay the fees. I hope this is up-to-date. I may have misunderstood though.

[autumn53]

I have somewhat got my husband to give me a green signal to start the process.

 

Should I start with directly complaining to the ICO about EON not responding to the SAR? I assume an LBA is not required at this stage.

 

I am meanwhile gathering all my paperwork noting all events so far including details that may be needed from time to time. 

[autumn53]

Thanks a bunch for your reply.

 

I have filled the Personal Information Complaints Form I got from here. Thanks for this too.

 

Please, I have a few questions.

1. Can I be acting on behalf of my husband in the complaint to ICO? One of the fields in the form allows that.

2. Will the above need a letter from him and can this all be done online.

3.  I have no supporting evidence of having sent his SAR to satisfy one of the fields in the form.

 

[autumn53]

Yes perhaps. Thanks Fruit Salad.

 

[autumn53]

I am attaching this letter with the form that I will submit today online to ICO. Please could you see if I have mentioned something that may weaken my position. 

 

Quote

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

May I politely bring to your notice that E-ON Energy have failed to respond to my Subject Access Request dated 17th January 2022 and subsequently to my reminder letter about the same dated 23rd February 2022. The former was sent via Royal Mail Signed For service and latter using Royal Mail Recorded Delivery Service.

 

Kindly note that both my wife and I have been deeply concerned about a large bill E.ON Energy posted to us in the month of December. This bill belongs to a closed account number xxxxx for a shared (with a large chicken farm next doors) electric meter and is to the tune of £3277.28

 

I paid for this shared meter’s usage via monthly Direct Debit to E.ON Energy and have no information on the other user. I later transferred this account in my wife’s name when a monthly Direct Debit was set in her name in 2020.

 

This shared electric meter no longer supplied us electricity since a separate new meter was installed on our own property on 28th July 2020. At this point E-ON closed account number xxxx and started us on a fresh account tied to our own meter unique to us.

 

Several stressful phone calls later E.ON Energy continues to remind us of this debt via text and email, mentioning late fees, to which we strongly feel they need to check their records. No amount of politeness and patience from our side seems to resolve this matter. To add to this, I am unsure if they can present a bill to me in 2022 for an account that has been closed since 2020.

 

We are a middle aged couple with health related concerns and are finding it increasingly difficult to cope with this breech of peace even after having never missed or delayed a payment to E.ON.

 

We feel it is our right to have all documentation they hold pertaining to us such that we are able to look into the reason for this disproportionate amount. They have supplied my wife with her details upon her SAR to them, but have failed to do the same for me. Please may I also clarify that both, my wife and I have held the said account with E.ON at different times as stated above.

 

I also hereby allow my wife Mrs. xxxx to deal with all communications with all concerned parties in the above matter.

 

[autumn53]

Thanks a lot for helping me with this. Yes I get the picture. Short and focused. 

Thanks

 

 

[autumn53]

I posted the Email on the same day. There has been no automated response/acknowledgement from ICO. I know the actual response will take a while. But am hoping I used the right email address. 

[email protected]

[autumn53]

I was just on the phone with them as suggested by you. They had not received my mail and I was asked to fill their online form here. Got auto email from them once I submitted the online form, although this does not have any reference number. Hopefully, they will send me one soon. I think I can see how the Data Protection laws can generate a flood of enquiries for the ICO.

 

Thanks very much.

[autumn53]

I just called ICO and was given a reference number.

 

Meanwhile, EON have texted and emailed me once again their payment reminder.

[autumn53]

Thanks a lot for looking into this.

 

I have written this and am planning to send this via EMail to EON.

 

Quote

 

To

E. ON Energy

 

Closed Account number  000000000

 

May I please bring to your notice that I have been receiving email and text reminders for a bill that is currently under dispute the closed account number 0000000

 

May I add to this that my husband Mr xxxxx, who I act on behalf of also held this account for a certain period of time initially and was paying for the bills via Direct Debit to you. He awaits your response to a full Subject Access Request that he sent to you via Royal Mail on 14th of January 2022 followed by a reminder for the same on 18th February 2022 to which there has been no response from your end and a formal complaint has been raised with the Information Commissioner’s Office under the current Data Protection Act.

 

Please note that the said account was linked to a shared electric meter between our property and a large neighbouring farm building. My husband Mr xxxxx and I paid for this shared meter’s bills presented by you to us via monthly Direct Debit to E.ON Energy and have no information on the other user. May I also mention that this disputed bill has the neighbouring Farm’s address not mine. This suggests that there is some discrepancy in your records.

 

Please note that our address is

Our House

ABC 

Post Code xxxx xxxx

 

NOT

 

Chicken Farm

XYZ

Post Code xxxx xxxx

 

The above is the neighbouring building’s address. This is the address that the disputed bill mentions as mine with my name on top. This indicates that your records are not up to date.

 

No amount of politeness and patience from our side seems to resolve this matter. To add to this, I am unsure if you can present any bill to me in 2022 for an account that has been closed since mid 2020. It would be termed as back billing and is certainly a financial malpractice if not prohibited by the Law.

 

We are a middle aged couple with health related concerns and are finding it increasingly difficult to cope with this constant breech of peace even after having never missed or delayed a payment to E.ON Energy. Keeping in view the address on this bill is that of our neighbour with my name on top.

 

We feel it is our right to have all documentation you hold pertaining to us. You have supplied me with my details upon my Subject Access Request, but have failed to do the same for my husband Mr xxxxx who I represent (permission attached).

Thanking You

 

 

 

I hope my wording doesn't admit owing anything to EON.

[autumn53]

Thanks DX for pointing it out. I got carried away as before. I am rewriting a much shorter and precise version of it. Will upload shortly.

Thanks Manxman for your help.

1. I have attached the reverse of the bill now. Sorry about this.

2. There was no obstruction, just that our meter sat next doors and the farm was rarely manned. I faintly remember my husband getting the meter reading via text message with the estate agent once.

3. Yes the address is of the Farm but the name is Mine.

4. Yes the meter was the main issue while buying the property back in 2018.

A retention fee of over 10K was held by our solicitors while the seller ensured the electric work gets carried out to bring the power line to our garage following the installation of a new meter at our property.

Our sellers being an elderly couple in their 90s, all the following-up was done by the Estate Agent and the work finished on 28th July 2020. 

This is when this account linked to shared meter was closed to start us on a fresh account.

 

5. Yes we used to have E-On people turn up at our door looking for a reading and I would tell them that the meter is in this building next door. My husband requested the Estate Agent to provide us the readings on several occasions from time to time to no avail.

 

6.The elderly couple who owned the Chicken Farm are the same people who sold us our house. Our Estate Agent never introduced us to the sellers. They owned both properties, which is why there was just one meter. I feel that the farm building has now been sold to some new party but this is just a guess as I see some farm vehicles come and go now and there are some signs of development taking place on the property. 

 

7. Our house was owned and lived-in by this elderly couple who also owned the Chicken Farm till we moved in on the 6th of Dec 2018. 

 

8. I would not know if E-ON got an actual reading at some point or the property has a new meter now. I just guess that the property is with a new owner for sure since at least last summer.

 

9. My average electric bill is roughly £150+ including VAT and Standing charge while the direct debit we paid back then was £58/month.

 

 

2021-12-01 revised final bill.pdf

[autumn53]

Thanks DX, that clears away a lot of confusion in my head.

This is straight and simple.

They are just trying to squeeze some money out of us before they archive the old account.

With all the points you bring up, we have a good chance of having this go our way. 

 

Thanks Manxman for your reply. I have read it carefully,

 

1. Yes that is exactly the case from the look of it. I think I will use the Back Billing example letter from the site shared by Bankfodder.

 

2. Our own Smart Meter was installed on 28th of July and this is also when the old meter was disconnected from our property. I am unsure if Western Power men who carried out the work ever took any readings. The chicken farm was vacant and remained so roughly up until summer of 21. 

 

I think the building housing that meter was locked and Western Power men were given access to it by the EA to carry out the works. The previous elderly owners occupied the house we bought till the day we moved in but their chicken farm was vacant. I would presume they paid for the usage up until we moved in.

 

3. I am attaching a few screenshots of the agreement wherein our solicitor ensures the retention is made and the meter relocation work is carried out. There is no mention of any apportionment. Despite every detail being discussed at numerous meetings with our Solicitors, a bill apportionment was never brought up. It never crossed anyone’s mind as perhaps the decrepit farm buildings were vacant. The work got carried out, we acknowledged and our solicitors released the retention.

 

I guess we being regular people who have never before dealt with a shared meter, it was our solicitors who should have ensured this apportionment and meter reading issue is also dealt with. Although, our solicitor tried her best to draft a fool proof contract, it seems she missed this bit.

 

4. I will dig deeper into our house purchase related paperwork to see if a meter reading was taken just as or before we moved in. It is more than likely that there is a record somewhere. Another reason why it is important that E-ON sends us our full SAR for my husband.

 

I hope I have made the attachments free from any personal data, may I request the admins to please delete any files I share if they feel it breaks forum rules.  

 

contract.pdf

[autumn53]

Hi thanks very much.

 

I will be replying soon. I don't have my study with the carpets being cleaned today. Thanks for your patience.

[autumn53]

HI,

I am sorry about the delay. My study is still upside down, I will soon be responding with more details.

Meanwhile I received another payment reminder. I have drafted a shorter reply for them. Please could you spare a moment and eyeball it. 

 

To

E. ON Energy

 

Closed Account number  000000000

 

Kindly note, I have been receiving email and text reminders for a bill that is currently under dispute for the closed account number 0000000

 

My husband Mr xxxxx, (who I act on behalf of) also held and paid-for this account via Direct Debit. had sent a full Subject Access Request dated 14th of January 2022 and a reminder dated 18th February 2022 to which there has been no response from your end and a formal complaint has been raised with the Information Commissioner’s Office under the current Data Protection Act.

 

Please note that the said account was linked to a shared electric meter between our property and a large neighbouring farm building. We have no information on this other user. May I also mention that this disputed bill has the neighbouring Farm’s address not mine. This suggests that there is some discrepancy in your records.

 

To add to this, I am unsure if you can present any bill to me in 2022 for an account that has been closed since mid 2020. Please note that we are protected under the back billing rule.

Thanking You

 

 

Thanks very much

[autumn53]

Hi Manxman, no I have not raised this back-billing thing with them yet. Only denied owing to them over the first phone call upon receiving the bill (8th Dec 2021). 

 

They tried to convince me that I must owe them this money from the 'shared' time period and was asked to prove that I never lived on the Chicken Farm. I told them that I would not know how to do that. At this point I was almost crying.

 

They asked me to send some purchase/Land registry related proof that I live on the house and not the farm. I emailed them the land registry that shows our property as our address. Satisfied, the gentleman on the other end asked me to speak with his accounts colleagues in 15 days time.

 

He reassured me that they may be kind enough to lower the charges keeping in view the meter was shared. Meanwhile, I got extremely worried about the bill and started seeking help here. I never called them back since. Only sent my SAR that they responded to and then my husband's SAR that they never replied to. 

 

Also, to answer your question about the meter reading upon the house exchange, my husband confirms there was none. We tried to get the meter reading via the EA several times, but the house purchase had been so arduous that refusing to move without a meter reading was not an option. The EA rarely answered his phone or text messages. My husband might have a record of those messages. 

 

Hi DX, during the above phone call, the person on the other end deduced that the bill could be a final payment from the shared meter time. My husband was not home so I could not confirm the monthly DD payments for the average usage. I did not know at that time about the BB rule but I did dispute the massive bill. My SAR response documents show the bill as 'disputed' in their call transcript. 

 

Thank you people. May you be blessed.

[autumn53]

The House Agreement does not show any ratio or any figures for this ‘appropriate contribution’. It has no description of this ‘contribution’.

My husband started the account and DD with E-ON in January ’19 after moving.The house underwent major renovations from this point on till late may. Not fully unpacked, our lives were up-side-down.

Digging into my our Bank Statements, we found the following outgoings towards E.On. A few big bills like I had mentioned in one of my previous messages.

 

Mar 19                     £294    (The account is set up in my husband’s name)

June 19                      £58

Aug 19                       £58

Sep 19                       £58

Oct 19                        £58

Nov 19                       £58

Dec 19                       £58

Jan 20                       £58     (The account is now in my name)

Feb 20                     £263

Feb 20                       £45

Mar 20                       £45

Apr 20                        £45

May 20                       £45

Jun 20                        £45

Jul 20                         £45    Our own Smart Meter installed. This A/c should now be closed but we kept getting billed                                                     although we got a fresh account number.

Aug 20                       £45    Closed account still billing us and we paying via DD

Sep 20                       £45     As Above

Oct 20                        £45     As Above

Nov 20                       £45      As Above

Dec 20                       £45      As Above

Jan 21                      -£43      Refund - we were still being billed as they owed us this £43 and that was aborting the                                                            automatic closure of our account in their system.

Jan 21                  £278.39    Three monthly DD set for Our own smart meter account as old account finally closes (it                                                       seems we were charged for both accounts between Jul 20 - Jan 21)

Feb 21

Mar 21

Apr 21                   £499.32    Three monthly DD

May 21

Jun 21

Jul 21                     £461.43    Three monthly DD

Aug 21                   £123          Switched to Monthly DD

Sep 21                   £123          Approx is when E.ON hands us over to E.ON Next and a fresh E.ON Next a/c opens.

Oct 21                    £123

Nov 21                    £123

Dec 21                    £123         We get billed for £3277 by E.ON as in the original post and I raise an SAR

Jan 22                    £123          My husband’s SAR raised to no response from E.ON

Feb 22                    £123

Mar 22                    £123

 

We have no information in case our sellers were also being charged by an electric company. There have been no successful meter readings from our side to E.ON as the farm was locked and the EA was taking no interest in having this sorted for us. I could not find any physical bills from that time. Although I have a few from their response to my SAR (image).

I think when I last spoke to E-ON upon receiving this bill back in Dec 21, they thought that the chicken farm address is mine. I was asked by their representative to present something in support of me saying that we never lived on that address.

I showed them my land registry images and they were satisfied that I have not lived on the farm and the two address confusion was cleared. But they still felt that the money is owed by us as at some point they were just charging us an average that did not reflect the true usage.

I reluctantly agreed as I did not know how to respond to such an argument. I did not even know how much my husband had been paying in the past as he was not home. I was offered to be helped by their accounts team if I rang them back in 15 days time which I never did. I instead raised an SAR.

1. The chicken farm was vacant to the best of out knowledge. Only very rarely there was some activity.

2. Honestly, we thought nothing, we did not even look into this clause. The purchase was so taxing as we were this close to being homeless, we were mentally exhausted.

We could not gather our bearings till late June. We lived out of boxes, slept on rolled out rugs, walked on concrete floors as the renovations sucked the life out of us stretching into agonising months.

Not sure if the Sellers were tied to E.ON or some other electric company and if they paid or not paid during or before above time periods.

 

3. The account was never with the sellers, we set this account up assuming we should be paying for the electricity in our property based on an estimated bill till our own meter was installed. This we felt would take a few months. Knowing that the Chicken farm is not in use and is locked, we assumed that all bills should be our responsibility.

E.ON started the DD with us but never took the actual reading, or we would have received this big 3k bill back then.

They did not even get an actual reading back when our own meter was installed and Western Power cut off the supply from the shared meter. Or we would have been given this £3k bill right then. Why now?

You are 100% right, only if we could reverse the time. We were unable to think straight at that time as we really had no home, it was just a lot of beams, nails, puddled floors and noisy power tools. I was getting treated with injections to my spine and was totally exhausted/ It never occurred to us that we could end up facing such a massive bill.

4. Yes we were receiving bills, I faintly remember that some were being addressed to the farm but they ended up in our post. I looked but could not find them now in our paperwork.

5. It is a huge possibility as you mention above. But, why would E.ON wait for so long to bill us. Why did they not bill us for an accumulated underestimate upon account closure?

6. Long story short. The EA never wanted us to buy this house and was discouraging us from the very start. They ensured we never met or spoke to the sellers. We tried many times but eventually gave up. Our solicitor was a keen lady who tried to get the agreement to suit us, but this she certainly missed. And so did we.

Also, we did not take the final meter reading for sure upon completion or even when our Smart Meter was installed. I could have easily asked the Western Power men to check the meter reading that day but I failed to be proactive. It was not on my mind at all.

I am a bit unsure about my next step. Will try changing the energy supplier tomorrow for sure. Please may I get some more advice. What should I do first?

Thanks a lot

 

2021-12-01 revised final bill.pdf

[autumn53]

Here, this is our Feb 22 bill from E-On Next last month. I hope this helps. Thanks

Eon Next.pdf

[autumn53]

Yes we have some electric heating and we use blowers too. The gas heating in this house doesn't work effectively. So we keep ourselves warm using blowers. We are trying to optimise it. Also my husband tried switching from E.ON next this afternoon, but all other providers are asking for exorbitant monthly sums right now.

 

Please, what should we do at this stage? 

[autumn53]

1. Its an old house with an old boiler. We intend to save money for a new system and have it installed. Thanks, I might actually need help with that once we have the money.

 

2. I keep getting these reminders from them via text and email. Should I keep ignoring them while we wait for their move?

 

3. All this happened over the phone and mostly over one phone-call on the same day made by me to E-ON..

 

After seeing the bill, I called them on the 7th of Dec. I asked them to look into their records as this was a massive bill for a long closed account and I don't own the farm. 

 

I was asked to prove I have never owned the farm via a House Deed or other such document.

I emailed my land registry papers that showed I own the house not the farm.

 

I was asked if we have paid towards our bills and I did not have much information on that as my husband was at work.

The person assumed that the account was never paid for and that this money is due.

 

I asked them if there is anything that could be done about it and I was instructed to call them back in 15 days time (on the 21st of Dec 2021) 

 

I never called them back as I had already started seeking help here and had sent my SAR to them on the 18th Dec.

(I think I recorded this call, also I have received a CD in my SAR that may have the recordings too.  I am attaching a call transcript I got in my SAR. 

 

Thank You

Event History.pdf Transaction.pdf

Edited March 30, 2022 by dx100uk
formatting

[autumn53]

Thanks DX

 

1 That helps. So I will do all the blocking.

 

2. I did not even know that the Gov helps with such stuff. I will read here about this.

 

3. I will need to pursue the ‘no-response-to-SAR’ complaint with the ICO.  They gave me a reference number upon a phone-call on 25th March. Nothing else since as they said there is high volumes.

 

Thanks Manxman

 

I think our recent energy bills have been even higher as my daughter and her bf were visiting during the winters. E.ON might have noticed the $$$ and they may have felt they could have made more from us while we subscribed to them in the past maybe. I raised an SAR with E.ON Next as advised by BankFodder earlier, waiting for the response.