Tinkerbella22 v Abbey!! **WON **

[tinkerbella22]

Ive took mad nicks advice and amended the letter slightly. Ive took ouyt the bit about the gogw. and ive changed the interest bit so it reads 'also, please be aware the interest is accruing daily'.

 

Short and sweet!!

 

And ill change the interest total at the bottom of the spreadsheet (well ill get my boyfriend to when I email it to him) to show the original total so they dont confuse themselves anymore.

 

Tink x.x.x

[tinkerbella22]

Thanks karnevil,

Emailed the stuff to my boyfriend last night and hes signed and sent them this morning 1st class recorded delivery.....

 

So what do I expect next?? Abbey have until 31st to file a defence, I take it they'll do this at the last minute?

 

Is there anything I should be doing whilst waiting for them to file their defence?

 

Tink x.x.x

[tinkerbella22]

Hi,

Quick update. Still no defence submitted from Abbey but they were served on the 17th Jan I think and acknowledged on the 18th so if Im correct they have 28days from then so more waiting......

 

As a side issue, the letter that I sent to Farzana Iqbal regarding the change of address details that I posted earlier on this thread.... I got my boyfriend to phone up Abbey today to check whether his address details have been changed and he was told they have our address noted on his file but its not the address they officially have for him so he has to go into a branch with 2 forms of I.D and change them (again). Now the letter I sent to Farzana Iqbal was sent 1st class recorded delivery on the15th Jan and we've had no responce from her and the address has not been changed. Now Ive told my boyfriend to go and change the address on Monday and request his statements from the past 2 months as soon as he can because this is what is holding up him getting his parachute account up and running but as a matter of principle I would like to complain about this Farzana Iqbal for the complete lack of professionalism. She has his contact details and has completely ignored the information and the letter I sent to her and has done nothing about it. Now I know it may appear a bit petty but does anybody know how I can complain???

Any advice appreciated!!

 

Tink x.x.x

[tinkerbella22]

Update,

Checked MCOL today and Abbey have filed a Defence. Where it says defence though the date says 12/01/2007, can somebody let me know what that refers to pls?? Thanks.

 

So am I just waiting for an allocation questionaire now??

 

Tink x.x.x

[tinkerbella22]

Hi all,

Received the allocation questionaire from the court today, to be handed in by the 26th Feb with the £100 fee. Attached is a copy of Abbeys defence.

 

Also in the post was a without prejudice letter which I will copy here, Im not entirely sure its a standard letter:

 

Me -v- Abbey

Claim number - x.x.x.x.x.

 

We enclose by way of service a copy of the Defence that we have filed with the court.

 

The next stage in the process will be for the court to send each of us an Allocation questionnaire, which askes for certain information relating to the case before it proceeds to trial. In the interim, we are writing to you to ascertain whether you would be prepared to agree to a settlement of your claim now in order to bring the matter to a close, limiting further expence to both of us and also avoiding the necessity of taking the further procedural steps such as filing the allocation questionnaire.

 

Regarding the charges, you will see from the Defence that Abbey takes issue with your claim on a number of points. For the purpose of this letter though, we should like to mention in particular that your claim seems to be based on an argument that you should not pay any charges at all. It cannot be correct that Abbey cannot charge anything at all if you become overdrawn or do not meet direct debits as Abbey must remedy the issues with the account and this incurs expence. This is in line with Banking industry practise and the Terms and Conditions under which you opened the account. Even if it were correct (which is not accepted) that the charges are greater than Abbeys actual loss in delaing with your acount, Abbey would still be entitled to charge you something for the expenses. Further, you will see the charges are liquidated damages, and not penalty charges and are therfore valid pre-estimates of loss.

 

Your claim is for the refund of £1551.09 in bank charges and interest. As a matter of goodwill and without any admission of liability on Abbeys part, Abbey will offer to pay half your claim, and your court fees, that is £895.55, subject to your having received any refunds or goodwill payments in respect of the sums claimed. This would be in full and final settlement of your claim.

 

We hope that you will rgeard this as a reasonable offer in the circumstances and a genuine attempt to reach an amicable settlement of your claim.

 

From a James Arrandale.

 

Now this letter confuses me a little because I havent sed they musnt pay anything, Ive sed the charges are disproportionate.

Is this a standard letter??

Also, if we accept the sum they offer I take it thats minus the goodwill gesture they gave us previously??

 

Thanks Tink x.x.x

[tinkerbella22]

Thought Id better write Abbeys defence as well:

 

1. save as is specifically admitted in this defence, the defendant denies each and every allegation set out in the particulars of claim.

 

2. it is admitted that the claimiant has a current bank aco**** with the defendant, acount number x.x.x.x.x

 

3. At all times the acount has been subject to the applcable terms and conditions which form part of the contract between the claimant and the defendant and to which the claimant agreed when the claimant opened the account. the defendant will refer at trial to the full conditions but for purposes of this defence will refer to the following extras.

 

(1) "you can apply for an overdraft on your account. If we give you an overdraft we will tell you your limit and the interest rate applicable"

 

(2) "an unautorized overdraft occurs if without our agreement you overdraw your account or exceed the limit of an overdraft which we have agreed"

 

(3)"if you have an unauthorized overdraft, you will be charged fees as set out in our tariff or charges specified to you and these may include fees for transactions we are unable to process due to lack of available funds in your account"

 

4. Throughout the period that the Claimant has had the account, the claimant received a number of copies of the conditions and of the said tariff of charges as they were amended and updated (though there has been no material amendmant to the conditions extracted in paragraph 3(1),(2) and (3) above.

 

5. Any overdraft facility on the account was (and is) subject to the conditions.

 

6. The claimant has overdrawn or exceeded authorised overdraft limits on the account on a number of seperate occasions, full details of which will be provided on disclosure. Therefore by virtue of the conditions referred to in paragraph 3 above such overdrawing was unauthorised and in brach of contract and the claimant became liable to pay fees to the defendant in accordance with its tariff of charges applicable at the relevant time. In accordance with the conditions, such fees were debited to the account.

 

7. In view of the facts and matters referred to in paragraphs 3,4,5 and 6 above, the defendant denies that the amount of £1551.09, or any other amount. was unlawfully debited to the account and the claimants claim for the repayment of that amountid therefore denied. The defendant denies that the claimant is entitled to claim interest in the sum claimed or at all.

 

8. The claimants contention that the said fees are unenforceable and /or are 'penalty charges' is denied. The fees reflect and are proportionate to the defendants administrative expenses incurred due to the claimants breach of contract and are a genuine pre estimate of the damage suffered by the defendant.

 

9. further or in the alternative, eve if the said fees are not proportionate to the defendants administrative expences incurred (which is denied), the claimant remains liable to pay such fees as may be found to be proportionate and the claimant is not entitled to claim repayment of the full amount of each charge made to the account.

 

10. No admissions are made by as to the amounts claimed by the claimant and the claimant is put to strict proof of the same.

 

james arrandale.

 

is this a standard defence???

 

Tink x.x.x

[Nos4r2]

It's the same (word for word apart from amounts) as the letter that dropped through my door this morning.

[Mad Nick]

Tink, word for word what I got, too, earlier this week. And yes, you can guarantee that their 1st GOGW is included in their 50% figure. And it doesn't include your Court costs or any interest. Aren't they just so loveable. Regards, Mad Nick

[adw]

Yahoooo! you guys are at the same point as me.

 

Tinkerbella I have had the exact same letter apart from the amounts also. Mine is dated 5th Feb and arrived Wednesday.

 

How are you going to respond?

[tinkerbella22]

Hiya,

I think Ill respond just saying sumthing like thanks for the offer but its not to my satisfaction so Im going to continue with recovering the full amount from my claim.

 

Ill post it up once Ive worded it correctly.

I also received the allocation questionnaire so Ill get working on reading up on that now.

 

They are cheeky barstools!!

 

Oh - its actually my boyfrends account but Ive been doind all the work so I want to represent him. Can anybody tell me who I wrote to or how I go about this???

 

Thanks.

 

Tink x.x.x

[Mad Nick]

Peeps, I responded with : rubbish offer, see you in court and how do you like my draft AQ Section H and Draft Directions, let me know whether you fancy SCC or Fast, baby ! Or words to that effect. Regards, Mad Nick

[adw]

Thanks Nick - Think I will have do do some reading this weekend. I understand the AQ is to determine small claims of fast track but am a bit lost on the Directions - can anyone point me in the right er direction no pun intended:rolleyes:

[Mad Nick]

adw, here you go :http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/57385-examples-witness-statements-disclosure.html

Regards, Mad Nick

[adw]

Cheers Mad Nick:)

[tinkerbella22]

Finally got my letter together rejecting abbeys paltry offer. Will send 1st class recorded tomorrow.

heres the letter:

 

Dear James Arrandale,

Thank you for your letter of the 6th February 2007 confirming that you have filed a defence with the Court. Like you I am equally interested in reaching an amicable settlement in order to bring this matter to a close without accelerating my claim and incurring additional expense.

I thank you for your offer of £895.55, however the total of my claim now stands at the sum of £1680.10 including interest at 8% and court fees therefore I respectfully decline your offer and will continue with the claim to recover full costs.

 

Regarding your comments in respect of my claim, I bring your attention to one point in particular. You appear to have misinterpreted the nub of my argument for it is fair to say that I do not disagree with the principal of charges. I merely believe that your level of current charges are not liquidated damages, a reasonable pre-estimate or an accurate reflection of your loss. This point has, as you know, been debated by various institutions and consumer groups, and the legitimacy of my belief is somewhat supported by the House of Commons, Select Committee on the Treasury in its Thirteenth Report that states, “we are not convinced that penalty charges of up to £39 are reasonable and accurately reflect the cost incurred by banks.”

 

I believe your current rates of charges are unlawful and therefore unenforceable. I have asked you previously for a full breakdown of these costs if you believe the contrary but none have yet been forthcoming.

 

The current total amount of my claim, including interest and court costs stands at £1680.10 and the interest is continuing to accrue daily until judgment or earlier payment.

I look forward to hearing from you

Yours Faithfully,

Now gonna fill in allocation questionnaire in the next couple of days and wait...

[Mad Nick]

Tink, the letter's good. Just one point to note if their letter is the same as mine - it says Without Prejudice at the top which means that, if you regard it as an honest attempt by them to settle which I suppose it is if you suppress a giggle, you can't refer to it in your Court documentation. Regards, Mad Nick.

[tinkerbella22]

Thanks Mad Nick.

 

So I cant use their letter in my court bundle?? or my reply???

 

Tink x.x.x

[Mad Nick]

Tink, no, neither their letter nor your reply (because you can't refer in Court to a proposal they made Without Prejudice). Regards, Mad Nick

[lofaprize]

this is all really interesting stuff,

 

im on the "step by step guide to making a complaint" letter they sent me which ive to ignore.

ive been getting quite confused to the amount of stuff ive been reading but this thread has been helpful to me.

the only thing is, i live in scotland and ive heard that i may have to use a lawyer because my claim is over £1500.

 

hope you do well tink, ill be keeping a watch to see how things are going.

 

lofaprize

x

[adw]

Nice letter Tink. Mine with the same sort of points is going out today - also sent email.

 

I have not received my AQ yet. I think I will ring the court today just to check its not lost in the post.

[tinkerbella22]

Hey adw,

what email address are u sending it to??

 

Tink x.x.x

 

p.s - can anybody answer a question for me re: the AQ. Im representing my boyfrend and I know I have to write that in the other information section as well as attach a letter signed by my boyfrend for the court. But on the witness section am I counted as a witness? or is the witness still 0 because hes asking me to represent him in any court proceedings???

[adw]

Hi Tink. I copied this from another thread - think it was a reply Nutty Tart received.

 

I am no longer working for Abbey National PLC and I would suggest that any emails sent to this inbox be resent to [email protected]

If you need to speak to someone urgently, please email [email protected] or [email protected], or call James on 02077564306. Thank you and best wishes, Christine

[tinkerbella22]

Just been reading up on the new strategy for AQ's. So In section G im writing this:

 

The Claimant proposes the attached draft order for directions, for the courts due consideration. If ordered, the Claimant believes these directions will allow the overriding objective's to be furthered in that they will fully identify the most fundemental issues in dispute (as detailed below), and allow them to be assessed so that this claim may proceed justly and expediently.

 

- The crux upon which this claim rests is the true cost incurred by the Defendent as a result of the contractual breach from which its charges arise. If the Defendent cannot substantiate the cost of each charge as proportionate to its loss incurred, it has charged contractual penalties contrary to the UTCCR 1999 and common law principles established since the early 1900's.

 

- In the event that the Defendents charges were accepted as being a fee for a service (which is denied), examination of its true costs is required to determine whether the price is reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that the claim be allocated to the small claims track, and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

 

The claimant also hereby gives notice that he wishes to be represented by *******, at the hearing of this claim.

 

 

AND ALSO

 

attaching the draft direction to the AQ:

 

1. The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

i. A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount, and reason given (if any) for that charge being made;

ii. Copies of any statement or other document relied upon as showing that each and every charge has been made;

iii. A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise;

iv. Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

v. If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

2. The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve a response to the Claimant's schedule, stating in respect of each item claimed;

i. Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, producing a copy of the contractual document relied upon;

ii. Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not;

iii. If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions (whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties), all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of such loss, and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to what the true cost of dealing with the matter was;

iv. If such charge is not alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions then facts and matters intended to be relied upon showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to show that the charge was fair and reasonable.

v. Any witness statements.

vi. Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

vii. If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order.

 

From what Ive read this is correct isnt it??

I then send a copy of the AQ to Abbey at the same time as sending to

the court right??

I then wait for the court to decide whether to follow these directions or

not, if so I send all my documents withing 14 days??

If sumbody could justreassure me Im on the right track.

 

Tink x.x.x

[Nos4r2]

I used Mad Nick's standard AQ-the same as above apart for the one section where he asked for the defence to be struck out as they were taking the mickey and wasting the court's time

[tinkerbella22]

Nos4r2,

do u have a link or the wording for mad nicks bit asking for the defence to be struck out??

 

Tink x.x.x