UKPC/DCB(L) Letter Of Claim - vanishing windscreen ticket - Progress Place, Liverpool, L1 6AF

[uub]

Hi all, I received a "Letter before Claim" letter recently from DCB Legal for £160 for a parking ticket issued by UKPC 4 years ago.

 

From other posts on here I'm led to believe that there is a high certainty that this will lead to a court claim being issued.

I've had to pay a solicitor twice previously to deal with county court claims that I had received in the past for consumer credit debt and I don't really want to go down this route again for such a low amount and would really appreciate some help from people here.

I first emailed DCB Legal and stated that I have no recollection of the alleged PCN and let them know I have requested a SAR from UKPC as the merits of their claim are vague with no evidence being supplied from them and there is no breakdown to the amount of £160 that they are requesting. I ended the email stating that I need more time to resolve the matter.

 

I then sent a SAR to both DCB and UKPC, UKPC responded a short time later with a zip file with a number of photos of the vehicle and signage (which is unreadable in the photos), 2 letters they sent demanding payment and what looks to be a reconstituted version of the original PCN.

DCB Legal look to have added £60 on top of the original PCN.

What would be the next step for me from here?

Thanks in advance.

 

[lookinforinfo]

Hi

it could well be that they are considering court action. They probably feel that they didn't have a strong case to have left you alone for four years. We usually recommend a snotty letter to show them that you don't give a stuff about it and not going to be cowed by them.

 

But first could you please complete the questions below and include the PCN  and anything you have received from the sar. From that we can see if they have any chance and you won't need to use solicitors. 

 

In addition could you please post up verbatim their Letter before claim and can you complete it fairly soon since you only have a limited time to respond to it.

 

[FTMDave]

Yes, please complete the forum sticky and upload all paperwork

 

 

[dx100uk]

scan up to one mass PDF all the letters in/out bothsides after redacting them of ALL your pers info or anything that THEY could use to ID you here.

 

read our upload guide carefully, its all there

 

remember ONE mass PDF only as well as doing the stick that ftmdave posted.

 

then we can move you fwd.

 

you do not need a solicitor!!

 

dx

 

[uub]

I have attached everything I have from them and everything I have sent.

The ticket was never appealed nor have I communicated with either company prior to the most recent contact.

DCBL.pdf

[dx100uk]

Can you please put the times and dates back on all letters

We cant tell if things are compliant without them

[uub]

Apologies, I wasn't sure just how much identifying information to include, I've reuploaded with all dates and times as requested.

The date of infringement:

07/12/17

Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet?
No

Have you received a Notice To Keeper?
No, it went to a previous address however I have received the original via a SAR.

What date is on it?

09/01/18 and 07/02/18
 

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence?

Yes
 

Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA)?
Yes
 

Who is the parking company?
UKPC

 

Where exactly was the vehicle parked?

Progress Place, Liverpool, L1 6AF (it was an alleyway, not a carpark)

DCBL-min.pdf

[dx100uk]

So yea old ukpc vanishing windscreen ticket act...

 

Ntk is in time 29-56 days

 

Doesn't mean nothing/nowt is wrong mind...

[FTMDave]

You need to send a snotty letter to show them you'd be big trouble if they did try court.

[lookinforinfo]

Their NTK does not comply with PoFA so they cannot transfer the liability from the driver to the keeper.  If you have not revealed that you were the driver when asking for sars etc then they will have their work cut out to prove you were the driver.  Anyone who has car insurance can drive your car and you may have named drivers on your policy as well as family members who can and do drive the car.

 

There are two things wrong with the PCN according to  Schedule4 of PoFA as well as the fact that unless the sign on the wall above your car says no parking here or something similar, there appears no reason to assume that you cannot park there.

 

The two reasons are

1] the period of parking is not specified on the NTK,

2] the wording on the NTK must comply with the wording on Schedule 4 s8 [2][f]

"       

(e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—

(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; or

(ii)if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;

(f)warn the keeper that if, at the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to keeper is given—

(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges (as specified under paragraph (c) or (d)) has not been paid in full, and

(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;

 

            "(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) is not mentioned at all. Total fail and you should keep this for your WS. Do not mention it on your stroppy defence as you do not want them knowing that or they will concoct some thing in their WS to misdirect the Court or just plain lie. 

 

 

[uub]

Thanks for all the replies, all communication I have had with them is in the pdf and I have not revealed who was driving the vehicle.

They have not provided me with clear pictures of the signage to see if it stated no parking and I have tried to get my own photos of it but it appears the area in question is now being ticketed by another parking firm and the original signage is gone.

@FTMDave is it worth sending them another email on top of the response I have already given them? If so what should this say?

[FTMDave]

Judges frown on court cases being started without an attempt being made to settle the matter, so In England & Wales there is the Pre-Action Protocol which includes a Letter of Claim being sent.  Essentially before the LoC any threats are hot air from paper tigers but once the LoC arrives you need to snap into action.

 

You have to give the fleecers a reason not to take you to court.  Being meek & mild won't do that, you need to come across as someone confident of your position who would be big trouble for them in court.
 

This "offence" was years ago but from the photos I would guess their one solitary pathetic sign will have said "no parking" in tiny letters.  I note another sign on the entrance gate not facing incoming traffic and on the passenger side.  So they're on a hiding to nothing on signage, not to mention the great work LFI has done on POFA.  How about -

 

Dear DCB Legal,

 

Re: your ref XXXXX

 

cheers for your Letter of Claim.  I creased up at the idea you actually thought I'd take such tripe seriously and cough up!

 

As per usual you'll have been too lazy to do any due diligence whatsoever otherwise you'd have seen that your client's case is complete pants.  You only have to look at the photos your client took of the event to see they'd get a hammering in court.

 

I see your greedy client couldn't resist making up £60 Unicorn Food Tax.  Judges don't like these invented sums, do they?

 

So if you want your client to get a good kicking in front of a judge then bring it on.  I will delight in going for an unreasonable costs order under CPR 27.14(2)(g) and spending it all on a nice foreign holiday now we can all travel again, while all the time laughing at you and your client.

 

I look forward to your deafening silence.

 

COPIED TO UK PARKING CONTROL LTD

 

I think that hints at the photos showing carp signage, without playing your cards too early.  Best to keep the fleecers guessing.

 

We normally say to not use e-mail, as if the matter did get to court they could file their lies at one minute to the deadline giving you no chance to rebut them.  However, as you've already been in touch with both DCBL and UKPC by e-mail I suppose you could e-mail this to DCBL and copy to UKPC.  However, see what the other regulars think first.

Edited November 14, 2021 by FTMDave
Typo

[dx100uk]

try google street view history for old signs

 

dx

[FTMDave]

I didn't know that dx - I've learnt something today!

 

The historical photos show signs on both side of the entrance gates stating that it is private land, but nothing about what the restrictions are.  There is one solitary sign down the alleyway presumably with the restrictions in electron-microscope readable format.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by FTMDave
Typos

[lookinforinfo]

As is it the case that the T&Cs are not at the entrance it means that no contract was offered then so all they have is an offer to treat which means you only need to accept that terms that you want to accept.

[FTMDave]

So e-mail the snotty letter to DCBL and CC to UKPC tomorrow.

 

That will hopefully be the end of it.

 

If it does drag on  then we need to stop them using e-mail, but cross that bridge ...

[uub]

Slight update from DCBL recently who have somewhat responded to the SAR.

Looks like they don't hold much information or have simply not provided it and it also looks to be the case that they have issued the 'Letter before action' without the client actually transferring any evidence to them.

Looks to be the case from the wording that they still intend to proceed.

combined.pdf

[dx100uk]

They dont have to transfer anything. Typically its the same printer at ukpc just using a different template.

 

Dx