EVRi damaged guitar i live in Scotland but claim raised in England *** Settled at mediation***

[BankFodder]

I think that musical instruments is on their prohibited items list. This does not necessarily exclude you from making a claim.

Are there any photographs of the damage parcel et cetera?

Read around all the threads on this forum – or at least lots of them – to understand the steps and the basis for the arguments against Hermes.

When you sent the guitar, did you declare what it was when you bought the insurance? Did you declare the value correctly?

Also can you tell us a bit about the damage

[BankFodder]

Well now you know a bit better – you sell things on eBay then make it clear to your recipient that if the parcel arrives damage they should take lots of photographs before they open it and while they are opening it.

Where's the guitar now? Do you have photographs of it now?

Does the machine give you an opportunity to view their prohibited items list? Maybe you should go back and doublecheck.

Maybe you should also go back to the machine and go through the process and see at what point it invites you to say what the item is. Either way, it could be helpful. If the machine doesn't invite you to describe the item then obviously you had no opportunity to do so. If the machine does invite you to describe the item – then clearly they knew about it and they took it anyway.

As you are finding out, most of the cases on this forum – and elsewhere are to do with lost items. Hermes seems to have a particular knack of losing items – but if you have sent an item which has been properly described and properly valued and you even bought their so-called "insurance" which is designed to get you to protect them against their own negligence, then I see you have a very good basis for a claim.

Keep on reading around the forum. Start reading up also on how to bring a small claim in the County Court. I'm afraid that you will almost certainly have to issue the papers.

[BankFodder]

It's a shame that you don't have pictures of the damage packaging. Not very clever of the recipient not to have taken these photos.

Find out all the information you can. Careful preparation and lots of evidence is important. Whether I think you have a good case will not especially relevant. At the end of the day it is you who will have to decide whether you want to fork out the court fee and have a go at getting your money back. Your's to win and your's to lose

[BankFodder]

Okay that would make a difference procedurally. I'm going to ask my site team colleague @Andyorch to come in and give some guidance because I always get confused about these dual jurisdiction problems.

Keep on doing the preparation that I suggested because whatever happens, you will need that information

[BankFodder]

I'm sorry but we are not able to see these images correctly because they don't display large enough. Please will you put them all into a PDF file and upload that.

Secondly, is there any opportunity on the machine to inspect their prohibited items list? Does it refer to a prohibited items list?

[BankFodder]

Also, I think you had better ask the buyer for a reasonably detailed statement of the condition of the parcel. This would include at the beginning, details of the purchaser's name and address – and how the parcel was received, when it was received and the condition before it was opened and then what he found inside

[BankFodder]

Please take a picture of it

Also, you will have to ask your buyer to sign the statement as a statement of truth.

[BankFodder]

Okay. I'm trying to refresh my memory as to where you are on this. I believe that they have declined liability because it is on their prohibited items list – and that you haven't begun a court claim. Is this correct?

 

You have an uncooperative buyer who apparently is not contacting you any more and will not even provide you with a statement – I suggest that you write to them again and say that you really have a problem and you could appreciate their help. However it won't be fatal – but it would be helpful if they would describe the packaging and the damage to the exterior packaging.

Once again, a great shame that they didn't take photographs – and also a great shame that you didn't take photographs before you sent everything off. Frankly I would have thought that this would be the minimum steps that any person would naturally take as a matter of survival and it is so little effort nowadays with a smart phone. What a shame.

If I have it right then you again have to decide whether to bring a court claim against Hermes for the negligent handling of your property. And you are going to have to be able to argue that they prohibited items list is unfair, that in any event, you declared the contents of the parcel and yet they still proceeded to accept the delivery instruction and hourly that they were happy to take your insurance premium – and that in any event, the fact that it was a guitar did not contribute to the risk of it being damaged.

You haven't said but I'm assuming that this is an electric guitar and so it's pretty solid – unlike an acoustic guitar which one might expect to be damaged.

[BankFodder]

Yes, post it up here before you send it off.

[BankFodder]

I've cleaned up the letter of claim little and excluded some of the non-relevant detail

 

Quote

 

Parcel ID: 

Enquiry ref: 

 

Dear Sir or Madam, 

 

On Monday 7th September 2020 I purchased your delivery service with insurance to send a parcel to an address in XXX town

 

The item arrived at its destination damaged  on Wednesday 9th September 2020. 

 

Although I've purchased your so-called compensation cover, you have refused to reimburse me for the value of the damaged item.

 

The contents of my parcel were valued at £263.00 plus the delivery fee and insurance cost totalling £16.88. 

 

I hereby inform you, that unless you reimburse me the above complete amount of £279.88 within 14 days, I shall issue a claim in the County court to recover this money from you, plus interest without any further notice. 

 

Yours Faithfully, 

 

 

 

 

The particulars of claim is fine except that you haven't included a reference number

 

Quote

The claimant used the courier service provided by the defendant courier company to send an electric guitar to a third party. Reference number XXX. The defendant company has admitted that they have damaged the item and refuse to compensate the claimant. 

 

The value of the item sent was £263.00. The delivery fee was £16.88. 

 

The claimant claims full reimbursement of £279.88 (item value plus delivery fee plus insurance cost) plus interest pursuant to section 69, County Courts Act 1984

 

[BankFodder]

Just check their website and send it to any standard contact email address – and then send a confirmation in writing by recorded delivery to the postal address

[BankFodder]

No, probably don't worry about it – but maybe you could simply post up exactly what you put here so we can just doublecheck

[BankFodder]

Okay it's fine. Don't worry

[BankFodder]

This is the second part of the Hermes test. It is at this point that you will have to decide to commit a further fee towards fighting Hermes in order to get your money back.

If you decide to go ahead then complete the forms, remit the fee – and yes, on current form probably agree to mediation.

Make sure you have read up the various threads which give a resume of other people's mediation experiences. There are some extremely good descriptions – very helpful.

Please note that if it does go to mediation then you will come under pressure to give some ground and unfortunately even the mediator is likely to say that you have some kind of obligation to reach compromise.

This is wrong. You have no particular obligation – but it is up to you. I think we've had one or two cases now where Hermes have offered a settlement at mediation which has been turned down and then Hermes instead of backing down have then decided to go on to a hearing – and we are waiting for this to happen.

 

I'm not sure what marked those particular cases out has been once that Hermes would want to move to a hearing – so I don't know whether yours is likely to follow the same path. However, our advice to you would be to stand your ground. I understand that you even bought their so-called insurance.

Please could you remind me of the basis on which they have declined responsibility
 

[BankFodder]

But it was correctly declared and they accepted an insurance premium for it?
 

[BankFodder]

Okay, I think you are a very safe ground. However, don't forget that these opinions are given informally and you have to make your own decision.

Hermes will say that there was a contract which excluded particular items because of their fragility – and musical instruments were included.

You will say that in fact the contract was a composite of the entire dealings between you and that included the fact that the item was properly declared, that insurance cover for it was offered and you accepted.
In any event, I can imagine that the prohibited items list was not as clearly expressed as the insurance cover proposal was.
That's because Hermes make money out of the insurance cover. The prohibited items list is rather more tucked away and of course it is so extensive it's difficult to go through.

Your argument will tend to be, as I said, that the contract was a composite which was an assembly of all the various parts of the transaction and that included the declaration of the identity of the item and the insurance. The insurance particularly indicated that although it was on their prohibited items list, that for an additional payment, Hermes were prepared to take it on and assume the risk.

Another way of expressing this is that there were two contracts, a main contract – the contract of carriage/delivery and then a collateral contract – being the contract of insurance. Hermes was happy to take the money for both contracts and they are not able now to escape either of them.

I hope this is not too convoluted we can answer any questions that you think of once the case has been allocated and a mediation date has been set.

However, part of your strategy will be to emphasise to the mediator – and to Hermes, that if they want this to go to court then you are very happy because Hermes will lose then you will make sure that in addition to getting your money, that the judgement is circulated throughout social media.

Hermes has a lot to lose if this goes to a hearing and you win.

 

Also I think one can easily make the point that if Hermes really wanted to exclude certain items, it would be very easy for them to do this simply by having a database which would automatically flag up items which were declared and refused to proceed with the delivery contract.

My own view is that Hermes is happy to take the money wherever it can – on the basis that they will move heaven and earth to avoid liability when things go wrong

[BankFodder]

Please have a look at this thread which has some similarities to your own case

 

and in particular, have a look at the rather wordy assessment of the potential arguments for the forthcoming mediation

 

 

[BankFodder]

@Andyorch

[BankFodder]

Yes, of course we wish you lots of luck.

Please keep is completely updated – but also if you get any questions or anything you're not sure of and let us know.

Make sure that you got a good set of notes – bullet pointed – not too much narrative but simply the points involved that you are making and the points involved in their defence.

Stand your ground

[BankFodder]

I expect they must have an address or an email address. I think you should write to them and explain the situation but also say that you felt that they were most unsympathetic and that they should realise that people with responsibilities for babies and also in times of Covid may not have the flexibility of a delivery company.

Tell them that you consider they have a responsibility to reschedule.
In fact I would suggest that you try to find the main number of the mediation service and make a complaint to the customer services.

[BankFodder]

Thank you for this update.

I'm interested to see that already they say that you should be required to compromise. Please look at some of the mediation stories here and the advice that we are giving in order to understand what we suggest should be your position in respect of compromise: we suggest no compromise.

The compromise is that you will not insist on going to court. You will not put them to additional expense of dealing with a full hearing. You will not hold them up to the very serious risk of losing the case and obtaining a judgement which you will then publish over the Internet.
That seems to me be a big win for them – and that is quite good enough.

Let us know when the mediation day is because I don't think you've told us. Read everything thoroughly and then ask us any questions.

[BankFodder]

Good luck. As long as you have read up all the points and advice on the various relevant threads on the sub- forum – then you should be well equipped.

Keep a notepad with you and make notes of the things that the mediator says to you so that you can refer to them quickly rather than having to remember them and then respond from memory.

Will be interested not only to have the result of this mediation but also if you are prepared to give is a summary of what happened.

You have probably seen already that we advise that you should stand up for yourself and not give ground. Of course the mediator will expect you to compromise in some way – but there is no reason to. Hermes taken benefit if they settled this year because they don't have to go to court and they don't risk an embarrassing judgement.
That's good enough for them.
They are getting away with this kind of thing far too often and so it's refreshing from time to time to get customers to stand up to the bullying

[BankFodder]

Excellent. Well done. I'm pleased for you.

Yes they always try to claw back something – to satisfy their sense of pride.

The money should get to you pretty quickly – they obviously don't use Hermes to deliver it.

 

Thanks in advance for any donation – but wait until you get the cash before you start chucking it around!

[BankFodder]

Part of the Hermes' business model – they sell you a delivery service then botch it and then try to deny responsibility.
They sell you an insurance – and then try to renege on it but keeping the money – they then make you work for nearly 5 months to get your money – and then in the end they pay you out but they try to keep back the money you spent trying to get your money back – which is really just enforcing their so-called insurance policy.

This is dishonest. It is very clearly cheating their customers.

I don't believe that the senior executives don't know about it. But hey, what do they care?

[BankFodder]

If you belong to 1 of the Hermes Facebook groups – you might like to go back to them and report your success and tell them about us, if you want.

Reassure them that it is all free. We don't charge anyone anything for anything