Goosedale WEDDING VENUE REFUSING REFUND *** Settled by Tomlin Order***

[BankFodder]

I've just looked at the letter. I have made one important amendment in red and crossed out some text which should not have been there – probably my fault.

Also I've crossed out a load of stuff you've included the bottom about confidentiality et cetera. You don't need any of this. It looks like posturing and strutting. All you need is just a simple letter and that's it. Do not send it without prejudice. You must avoid without prejudice letters at all costs because they only hamper you later on.

Please correct the letter and then repost it here but don't post it until we have seen the application notice. Incidentally I suggest that you change your deadlines to Wednesday morning so that they now have until Tuesday afternoon to respond. I think you refer to your Monday deadline at two instances in the letter

[BankFodder]

Okay, slight change of tack I've drafted up a form N244 but I suddenly realise that they could be to variations depending on whether or not the defendant agrees. Therefore I suggest that you send the letter immediately – by email and also by recorded delivery. Give them until Wednesday – and if you get an answer by then or if they failed to respond then we will send the appropriate version of the N244

 

Have you managed to find the version with my amendment in red and also the crossings out of some of your added text?

 

[BankFodder]

I'm terribly sorry, but maybe something has passed me by. I didn't know that you would sue the DJ as well. If you have post up the claim form here then I'm afraid that with all the to-ing and fro-ing – this is now in six pages it is simply becoming too involved for a relatively simple matter

Can you tell us where you posted this claim

[BankFodder]

Yes I think it will be a good idea to open a new thread about the DJ.

As I say, I was completely unaware that you decided to sue the DJ. Frankly I would have left it for the moment and done one thing at a time

[BankFodder]

Quote

A bride whose dream wedding plans were derailed by Covid-19 has said she is being denied her £16,000 deposit.

Alisha Rehman, 25, from Birmingham, was due to get married at Excellency Midlands' venue in Telford in July in a 500-person ceremony.

Official rules say couples affected by government restrictions have a right to refunds, but getting money back has proved difficult.

Excellency Midlands said the whole sector had been left "on hold".

Mrs Rehman cancelled her booking when restrictions were brought in and got married in a small ceremony in her mother-in-law's garden.

She said the pandemic meant it was not certain when a large-scale event could be held.

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-54529132

[BankFodder]

Okay, on this basis I don't think you need to file a form N244. It's clear that they're not raising any objection if you wanted to add your daughter as a second claimant, but more importantly, they seem to accept that you are a beneficial third party under the 1999 Act. Although they say it's a matter for the judge – and which it clearly is – but they are not raising any objection.

In fact I have to say that they seem to be behaving quite decently on this particular point.

[BankFodder]

So that I don't have to go through the whole thread again, can you remind me – have you received the directions questionnaire?

[BankFodder]

Is Leicester County Court their local court? Where is your local court? It shouldn't have been transferred to their local court. It should have been transferred to your local court.

What happened to the directions questionnaire?

[BankFodder]

Well if it is transferred to your local court, I don't really see what the problem is.

Secondly, I've asked you twice about the directions questionnaire and you aren't answering me

[BankFodder]

When did you send this off? And didn't it give you an opportunity to take any other requests?

 

[BankFodder]

I also asked you when you sent off the questionnaire and whether it gave you an opportunity to make any other requests that you are not answering this. Instead you tell me when you received the notification from the court. Please will you address the questions – and I agree with my colleague, that would like you to stop simply posting screenshots please.

[BankFodder]

You still haven't addressed the question about the directions questionnaire and whether there was an opportunity to ask for other orders to be made.

[BankFodder]

Thank you. I've actually just looked at the County Court website and I see that the most recent version of their DQ doesn't invite you to ask for orders. As you have said.

Do you happen to know if the defendants have opted for mediation? Have you received a copy of their directions questionnaire?

[BankFodder]

Okay. I seem to remember having seen this in a previous post of yours that they refused mediation.

In that case, I think the thing to do now is to wait until you hear from the court – and probably the next thing that will happen is that a hearing date will be set – which may well be a telephone hearing – and you will be asked to provide documents that you are going to rely upon.

When that happens we will prepare a reply to the defence which will show that you are claiming third party rights and that the defendant is consenting – and that on that basis as they haven't defended on any other issue, they are accepting that the contract has been frustrated.
Along with any other documents you supply to the court before the hearing will be a copy of the letter that you have received where they clearly don't raise any objections.

I think this puts you in a very strong position

[BankFodder]

I think it would be helpful if you would pull all the documents that you have and which you think you are going to rely on together. Read our advice about organising your court bundle – and set about preparing it.

Don't include too much material. Only material that you think you're going to rely upon. I think you will need to obtain a copy of the regulations which made it unlawful for the venue to hold the function.

Obviously one of the documents you are going to include is the letter that you have received from the wedding venue

 

[BankFodder]

But if the OP is relying on third-party rights, then that doesn't seem to be necessary – particularly as it has been addressed in correspondence and the defendant seems to be perfectly accepting of this

[BankFodder]

I think you should probably follow the approach suggested by @Andyorch who is probably more up-to-date on these things and I am

[BankFodder]

This is an extract from the CMA news story published on 26 November. It was actually first posted on this thread by my site team colleague @honeybee13

 

Quote

Many couples will be entitled to a full refund, but in the cases where they are not, we are absolutely clear there is no ‘one size fits all’ approach to retaining costs. Any proposed deduction should only cover costs already incurred in relation to the particular wedding in question, and those costs should be proven by the firm and clearly broken down. All wedding firms need to take note of the CMA’s action in this area and provide refunds where they are due, without unnecessary delay. Those who refuse to do so risk enforcement action.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/covid-19-refunds-cma-warns-wedding-firms-over-unfair-practices

 

I've just posted up another extract from it.

I strongly suggest that this news item and other related matter from the CMA and other authorities is included in the court bundle.

Possibly relevant extracts can be highlighted for the attention of the judge .

 

It seems extraordinary to me that reputable companies are prepared to stake their reputation on this kind of thing and also that they prefer to incur legal fees enlisting professional help rather than simply trying to sort it out on a sensible customer-facing and economically sound basis.

Some companies seem to marginalise the whole issue of reputational risk. What a shame.

Unfortunately, legal education and legal training in the UK is very much conflict-oriented – especially where only small amounts of money are involved.

If this was being dealt with on a commercial basis – or for instance, in Japan, a pragmatic view would be taken as to the transaction costs involved and I expect that the dispute would never even have gotten this far.

I think this is another reason why somebody should have a close look at the quality and scope of legal training in this country.

The transaction costs involved in litigation include, at least the cost of litigation, the loss of reputation and the loss of a potential business partner or client in the future. Big Fail!

 

 

[BankFodder]

Please can the OP contact us by email at our admin email address as we have had a press enquiry about this issue.

Thank you

[BankFodder]

Thank you. I have been in contact with the national press but also some local press from the Nottingham area – and naturally, they are all interested in these kinds of things at this moment.

[BankFodder]

Just in case you're not aware, here is another case of a wedding venue trying to hang onto all the money during the Covid crisis.

The discussion has just begun – and I suppose we will have more people considering that it is inappropriate to discuss these legal matters on a public forum.

oh dear.

[BankFodder]

Thanks for the thanks – but to be clear, I have had absolutely no involvement with this thread since very early on in its life.

All work has been done by my site team colleague @Andyorch

[BankFodder]

A Tomlin order is an agreement between the parties which is also known as a "consent" agreement. It basically records the terms of whatever has been decided between the parties and then it goes to a judge to be signed off.

The Tomlin order will lay a timescale – generally speaking a deadline by which the agreed settlement must be executed and will then go on to say that once the agreement is properly executed, the claimant will discontinue the claim. If the agreement is not executed then the claimant is at liberty to return to the court and asked for judgement.  It would be open to put into the agreement that the claimant could also then go on to proceed for the full amount which was originally claimed if the settlement agreement is for less than that.

The agreement has to be drafted between the parties. Then put before the court to be signed off at which point it becomes binding.

I haven't followed this thread well enough to know whether the other side is represented or they are also litigants in person.
Whatever, I think it's important now to make a detailed note of what you believe has been agreed and provided to the other side and it would be in their interests as well to do the same thing. I understand that they are reading this thread so there's a big hint for them. It's important to show that they are being cooperative and that you also are being cooperative and willing.

It's important to establish a paper trail so that if the other side – or indeed if you – are being obstructive then you can show the paper trail to the court to explain why the Tomlin order has not been signed off as agreed and you can then ask for further measures from the judge.

So I would begin by setting out in a bullet pointed fashion everything that has been agreed between you. Send it to the other side. They should do the same thing.

You can then identify the points in common. Hopefully there won't be any disagreements over any points but if there are then these need to be resolved and it should be done by written discussion.

I would suggest that you email the other side immediately and tell them that you are preparing to set out what you believe has been agreed and you are alerting them to the fact that they will probably receive this next week on, say, Tuesday and that you look forward to receiving the same thing from them so that you can hammer out the basis of the Tomlin order.

Once again, it's very important that you show that you have been hugely proactive and that you are bending over backwards to finalise the Tomlin order in order to bring an end to the litigation to save time and trouble to everyone.
The defendant should be doing the same thing.

 

[BankFodder]

1 minute ago, BazzaS said:

Posted separately (so it can’t look like I’m “trying to put words in BF’s mouth”)

 

You can be seen to be reasonable without having to agree with them that you can’t ever discuss ANY aspect of the case. 

Not quite sure what this means – but certainly you must not discuss any of the details of the settlement. Simply the logistics of preparing the Tomlin order.

[BankFodder]

If he is represented then it would be fairly normal for them to take charge of the drafting of the consent order.

For the moment, though, I suggest that you research Tomlin order is on the Internet. There's lots of information – but in particular, you follow the advice that I've given above about writing to them and being as proactive as possible.

If you feel that they are introducing any new terms into the settlement then you should make sure that you point this out to them in writing and you explain your objections in writing and do everything you can to reach an agreement – but make sure it's all in writing so if push comes to shove, the judge will see that you have been resolutely cooperative and that any problems have been caused by the other side.

Hopefully they have had enough of this as well and they will now start to be a bit less obstinate and act a bit more reasonably and they will join with you in reaching a settlement with the emphasis on the word "join".