Hastings/Principia/Auxillis - Tricked into a car hire when told it was a courtesy car!

[BankFodder]

Here's a little bit of reading to start off with https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/search/?q=auxilis &quick=1

 

It seems that Auxilis are going to make a name for themselves with this kind of behaviour.

I see that you've been here since 2007 so this is very lucky because it means that you are well aware of the advice which we constantly give here to record your calls so luckily you've got recording of the conversation you had with your insurer about the courtesy car and that will really help us push your case forward. Bravo

[BankFodder]

and by the way it would be helpful if you would let us know who your insured it is and also something about the kind of insurance that you have.

[BankFodder]

I have to say I hadn't expected that you had any recordings and so my post was a bit sarcastic and probably over harsh. Well done on having some recordings – a huge number of people don't and they suffer as a result.

Follow the advice from @unclebulgaria67 above but I think somewhere along the line you need to put down a paper trail and let Hastings know that the car you have received has been received on the basis that it is a courtesy car and it is supplied under the insurance agreement and at no time have you consented to enter into any credit agreement.

This really concerns me. You've paid your insurance premium and therefore all of the service that they provide under it should be unconditional and if they are now trying to impose conditions on you which if you failed to meet then you will suddenly become liable for the "courtesy car" then I can't see that that is acceptable – unless may be something like that is buried in your terms and conditions of the insurance.

Maybe you had better start taking a look.

We have lots of complaints about Hastings and their conduct and we have had a couple of references now to Auxilis and I would recommend very strenuously that you record all phone calls as per our customer services guide and keep a very tight paper trail. Confirm everything in writing. If there's anything you disagree with then make it clear to them in writing that you disagree with it.

Also, I'm not aware that Auxilis is a repairer https://www.auxillis.com/

 

I think that they are some kind of proxy/agency which has set themselves up to deal with the logistics of insurance claims including the arranging of repairs and I'm sure that they basically have bot contracts with preferred repairers and preferred hire car companies so that they can obtain those services much more cheaply because they are buying them in bulk.

This is entirely reasonable of course – but at the end of the day your contract is with your insurer – and it's a shame that this is the second or third that the name of Auxilis has come up on this forum – and linked to Hastings insurance and I'm afraid it doesn't make for very nice hearing

[BankFodder]

Firstly, I think that you are dealing with things very well and I think your comments are absolutely correct.

Presumably you have got their telephone denial that they ever emailed you about a courtesy car. This is important because the email together with the recording is itself extremely evidential of unfair treatment.
Can you tell us what kind of insurance you got. Is it fully comprehensive?

Do you have the details of the third party who ran into?

It's a long time since I've looked at an insurance policy that I have a feeling that there is generally speaking a provision that you will cooperate with any legal action which is taken against 1/3 party. I have to say that this seems to be quite reasonable to me. Can you check to see that there is such a thing. Of course, making it subject to conditions such as you may be liable for fees et cetera is totally unacceptable.
 

[BankFodder]

There is absolutely no need to concern yourself with the third party insurers.

Read through this thread and you will understand why.

 

Can we just sum up the situation now.

Somebody ran into you – they were at fault.
Your car was written off.
The value of your car was agreed with you and you have now received compensation for the value of the car.

Ancillary to all this, you used a courtesy car which they are now trying to describe as a hire car.
They are now trying to claim the cost of the hire vehicle from you unless you cooperate with their solicitors against 1/3 party.

At the moment because the value of your car has been reimbursed to you, you are not actually out-of-pocket – but you feel that there is a risk that they may proceed to claim the cost of the hire car from you.

They ask you to sign an agreement to cooperate with the solicitor and they are threatening you that if you don't, then they will pursue you for the cost of the hire car.

Have you had to pay any excess?

Why do you feel so reluctant agreeing to allow solicitors to handle your case?

Have you checked your policy or anything about your insurance contract which refers to this? I've already suggested to you a couple of times that I feel that this is probably not unusual and at the moment I don't see anything unreasonable about it – although I find that the threat that they are making is completely unacceptable

[BankFodder]

What can you tell us about the identity of the third party – without actually naming them?

[BankFodder]

You say that the Auxilis contract "apparently does". Have you not seen it?

You say that the third party driver was as blind as a bat. Is there a possibility that he shouldn't have been driving? How do you know that he was so visually impaired?

Can you tell us briefly how the accident occurred?

Also can I say that it's very unhelpful to simply give your answers to my questions simply as an extension of my sentences. It makes it very difficult for me and other people to read.

Apart from anything else I suggest that you start using the quotation function on this forum and also if you are going to give you answers a running commentary then please put them in a different colour.
At least that

[BankFodder]

I don't think we have capacity for tongue in cheek in respect of this problem. I'm trying to find out exactly what happened.

You've posted the agreement – but is this the agreement with Hastings or is this a subsequent agreement which you have signed with Auxilis?

I want to know what your agreement with Hastings is. Any agreement with Auxilis is subordinate to your Hastings agreement almost to the point of not being valid – possibly.

Have you made any notes or statements in relation to his verbal statement "I just didn't see you". If you did make these notes then how soon after the accident did you make them? And you say that there was no witness other than the wife who was in the car – and didn't hear him making the statement. He was out of the car when he made the statement.

You say he "accelerated" into you. Why would he have been accelerating – there was that they no attempt to slow down?

The facts of this worry me because it sounds to me the kind of situation where he might change the story and say that you pulled out in front of him and gave him no time to stop.

[BankFodder]

We don't need to see any photos. We do need to see the original agreement with Hastings so that we can understand the status of the subordinate agreement and whether it has any validity.

[BankFodder]

I'm sorry but I'm losing the plot on this thread – partly because you are posting up so much detailed information and I really don't have the time to deal with it all.

This really is a DIY forum – in other words we try to empower you and point the way that it isn't helpful that you post entire contracts rather than discover the part that you think is relevant and simply post that so we can have a look.

In principle, you have a fully comprehensive insurance policy.
This means that your insurer is responsible for everything and I find it amazing that they try to pass it off to someone else and get you to sign a contract with that person. That seems to me to be unacceptable. When you get a fully comprehensive insurance with a company then as far as I'm concerned you pay them to do it all for you and you may have to pay an excess or you may have to pay increased premiums the next year – but they are meant to be a one-stop shop. So the fact that they are involving Auxillis and attempting to put them into a direct contractual relationship with you seems to be unacceptable and unfair – not what you paid for.

Secondly, it seems to me to be entirely reasonable that they should require that you cooperate with a solicitor. You pay an insurance to protect yourself from losses – not to protect and at-fault third-party from losses and so if the insurance company reckons that it is economically worthwhile going to the expense of pursuing the third party in order to recover their losses then I don't see why they shouldn't. Also, if they get their money back from the third party then it should mean that their insurance premiums for their own clients should be cheaper in the future because they are able to recover the money that they pay out. (Of course this is a load of rubbish – they will always try to get the money from both ends) – but the principal is sound.

I'm still struggling to see why you should object to the fact that you have to cooperate with their solicitor. However I don't see why there should be anything to sign about this. It should be in the initial contract of insurance that they will pay you out without quibble, that you will not have to engage with any other party such as Auxilis to make it happen – and that you will assist them in any reasonable way to recover their losses.

That's how I see the picture. I would be amazed if you can show me anything in any of the insurers terms and conditions which contradict this

I'd be interested to see what site team member @unclebulgaria67 has to say about this

[BankFodder]

Okay, this is quite a nice summary.

In that case I suggest that you write to Auxillis – copy to Hastings

Tell them that although you are happy to cooperate with any attempt to recover Hastings losses, you will not be held liable for any costs should they not recover all of their outgoings and that you consider that your entire legal relationship is between yourself and Hastings and that your insurance agreement with Hastings covers all eventualities.

You refuse to sign anything else.

Furthermore if they persist in hassling you about this, you will begin a complaint to the financial ombudsman service.

I can't really think of any other appropriate response

[BankFodder]

Very helpful information. Thank you.

If the OP does get one of these witness statements to sign then maybe they would be kind enough to post it up here so everybody can look – and learn.