Mutating Corona Virus

[tobyjugg2]

Jenrick is reported as saying, quite carefully, that there are 'no immediate plans' to impose an age 50+ based lockdown ...

 

Maybe 2 weeks then ... 3 at the outside

 

not really sure what the REAL reason for any such is though

 

Perhaps they simply want the virus to mutate through the young systems before they let it loose on older ones when they unlock the over 50's.

They have already set up the compromised system folk by saying out you come into the epidemic rebound and heres a tenner to go to a restaurant.

 

Then they can claim (ensure) the NHS was simply overwhelmed when they all start dying.

Can't think of any justifiable rational reason other than a statistical inference that the older you are the more likely you are to have severe effects.

[tobyjugg2]

Well, 90 minute test announced

.. and it isn't prioritised to airports?

 

Actually getting the 24 hour test (let alone regular ones) would be a boon to care homes and hospitals.

A 90 minute test would be most useful at airports and borders

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

1 hour ago, hightail said:

Quick question.  If you're tested where is that result registered?  Is it at the location of the test or your private address?

 

I would assume any UK based tests would be primarily logged against your NHS record, but a good question

 

 

(90 minute) Covid-19 lab set-up at Thailand's Suvarnabhumi Airport

 

https://www.thestar.com.my/aseanplus/aseanplus-news/2020/07/06/covid-19-lab-set-up-at-thailand039s-suvarnabhumi-airport

 

 

New AI test identifies COVID-19 within one hour in emergency departments

(but read the detail)

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/science-blog/new-ai-test-identifies-covid-19-within-one-hour-emergency-departments

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.07.20148361v1

 

 

 

Indian startup develops Covid 19 detecting mobile app, takes 5 minutes

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/indian-startup-develops-covid-19-detecting-mobile-app-takes-5-minutes/story-pB69DtRslPDJkx3tF1gOdN.html

 

 

 

 

I've not looked at much in detail apart from a summary read through the ox.ac one

[tobyjugg2]

sums it up

 

"We all know that an effective and integrated find, test, track and trace system is hugely important in tackling the coronavirus outbreak. It’s crucial if we’re going to come out of lockdown safely, prevent a second wave of suffering and see our loved ones again.

Yet Britain’s test and trace programme – lauded by the government as “world-beating” – is about as far from integrated or effective as you can get."

 

"Instead of putting local public health experts and NHS services in charge of contact tracing, the health secretary, Matt Hancock, handed over responsibility to private companies such as the outsourcing giant Serco, which has previously been fined for deaths of workers and members of the public that could have been prevented. The list of problems in the test and trace system is already immense – three data breaches, poor training and faulty online administration systems among them."

 

 

and who IS delivering?

"Despite this convoluted mess of a setup, local health protection teams are delivering.

In public hands, teams are tracing far more contacts than the privatised national call centres and online system. They are achieving this even in the face of local public health departments being hampered by lack of access to real-time data on cases in their communities."

[tobyjugg2]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-testing-privacy-information/testing-for-coronavirus-privacy-information-quick-read

 

https://www.euronews.com/2020/08/03/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-uk-s-new-90-minute-coronavirus-test-euronews-answers

[tobyjugg2]

‘Flabbergasted’ motorist handed parking fine after taking drive-through coronavirus test

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-drive-through-test-parking-fine-enfield-a9652391.html

 

Mr Pugh said he was at the testing site with his wife and two children, aged nine and 11, for all of 23 minutes. He followed the directions of the staff during his time there.

[tobyjugg2]

probably, but % of population infected could/should also be considered, and of course any identified  source

 

eg a sudden increase of 100 confirmed cases in a small village vs a 100 blip in the cases in london after a rave

[tobyjugg2]

1 hour ago, hightail said:

 

That's the sort of thing I was interested in.  Figures are reported for the area covered by my district council but there are no hospitals or testing centres.   If home address isn't what matters this could lead to a rather ridiculous situation where there are no cases but there are deaths.  There are loads of people within the district work for the NHS at large hospitals outwith the area for at least two different hospital trusts.  When they're tested does the result (+ve or -ve because both do matter) count for those cities or for their home address?  Is it recorded against both - if so does that count as two tests?

 

 

 

I've done some checking on what actually happens with the result with people who have been for tests - a number of NHS staff (plus some neighbours)

 

First

The competence of the drive in test centers would appear to be shockingly poor, with

a number of lost results and multiple 11 day plus waits for results even in this small sample

Two swaps being taken (rather than one) with two test results coming back with conflicting results (let alone results saying inconclusive or other things other than positive or negative

 

 

and, despite the assurances on the ICO site, and by the gov site, even people who have had multiple tests - there is nothing on their medical records - so where the data is going - ??

 

Small sample of 11 so far with 6 who have had multiple tests

 

A small minority of the tests went smoothly with fast results - including mine.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

3 hours ago, hightail said:

 

That's the sort of thing I was interested in.  Figures are reported for the area covered by my district council but there are no hospitals or testing centres.   If home address isn't what matters this could lead to a rather ridiculous situation where there are no cases but there are deaths.  There are loads of people within the district work for the NHS at large hospitals outwith the area for at least two different hospital trusts.  When they're tested does the result (+ve or -ve because both do matter) count for those cities or for their home address?  Is it recorded against both - if so does that count as two tests?

 

 

 

I think the real answer is

They have the site the test was carried out at and your home address - if they dont lose them that is

 

Data they dont lose, inaccurate or otherwise, will be sent to some data munger to massage, process and interpret it into a form thats least damaging/most promotes whatever Cummings wants

... that isn't so far outside reality even the small amount of data that generally is available clearly shows the official claims as codswallop

... or even then as we keep seeing.

So the actual content is just something to be cooked so it doesn't matter if you are tested miles from home - as many have been sent let alone when they are actually staying away from home

 

Thats why the data goes no-where else be it medical records or local tack and trace

 

 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

wikipedia

 

"NHSX is a United Kingdom Government unit ... "

 

"It was established in early 2019 by the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, Matt Hancock, to bring together information technology teams from the Department of Health and Social Care, NHS England, and NHS Improvement. NHSX will work closely with the Government Digital Service and other relevant government functions.^[1] It is led by Matthew Gould."

 

 

 

Just because it has the letters N H and S in its name ...

 

http://www.thehtn.co.uk/2019/02/27/the-nhsx-unit-what-do-we-know-and-what-does-it-mean/

 

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/05/08/nhsx-contract-tracing-app-management-of-outsourced-to-private-company-and-to-be-accessed-overseas/

 

 

 

and we already know about the citizen tracking ap and its identifiable central data store which p'd all over peoples data rights

 

 

like I said - it goes to Cummings - maybe via handcock maybe just bypassing him.

Edited August 4, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

 

 

Heres what its NOT doing

 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-blackburn-darwen-council-nhs-test-and-trace-covid-a9653071.html

 

"The English council dealing with the country’s highest coronavirus infection rates has been forced to develop its own contact-tracing system — because the £10bn national scheme is failing to reach hundreds of people who have been exposed to the deadly bug."

 

... No doubt Johnson will want to cut Blackburns' funding

Edited August 4, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

 

and that facts start to come out

'Inexplicable' failure to quarantine travellers to the UK made pandemic 'far worse', say MPs

UK ‘almost unique’ in rejecting border checks in crucial March period – without scientific basis – as hundreds of infected passengers arrived every day

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-uk-quarantine-travel-cases-deaths-covid-a9653451.html

 

"Strikingly, it says the Home Office refused to set out any scientific advice to explain the “grave error”, despite repeatedly promising to do so – a stance attacked as “completely unacceptable”."

 

So even aside from not testing in any way people who returned:

"Yvette Cooper, the committee’s chair, said the critical mistake was the decision on 13 March – 10 days before lockdown – “to remove all self-isolation guidance for travellers arriving in the UK”."

 

"The MPs also pour scorn on the Home Office’s argument that 99.9 per cent of arrivals are obeying requirements to quarantine for two weeks, finally introduced in June.

They describe the claim, made by home secretary Priti Patel as “unreliable”, because it appeared to be based only a limited number of compliance checks made and three fines issued."

 

 

 

So not only did Johnsons cronies NOT make any efforts whatsoever to test people returning,

and NOT properly check people were self isolating,

they actually stopped telling returnees to self isolate for 10 days before the country was locked down as the number of epidemic infections exploded.

 

Wonder why?

 

"The committee’s inquiry heard that, in the crucial 10 days between scrapping isolation guidance and the lockdown, up to 10,000 infected people arrived."

 

[tobyjugg2]

Hardly

 

The real elephant is a person in charge who has a clear, defined, and consistent history of

 

* Lying through his teeth

 

* Mismanaging expensive projects to failure, let alone that they tend to be vanity projects with little defined benefit anyway - projects which any junior project manager could have managed FAR better

 

* Wasting VAST amounts of other peoples/tax payers money on failing mismanaged projects

 

* Doesn't give the slightest damn about other people

 

* Can't even target testing where its needed, let alone effectively implement it

 

* Is going to use children to implement his herd immunity - or simply spread the virus through them because it suites his incompetent flying pig  plans

 

 

His current worlds worst track and trace is costing in the order of £200,000+ an HOUR to contact the same few few handfuls of people repeatedly

About £10Billion so far?

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

19 minutes ago, brassnecked said:

Problem for Kier Starmer, is trying to keep a fractured labour Party together, and the Momentum lot will chip away. After he took the knee he is on borrowed time to step down for a BAME leader, David Lammy or Naz Shah might fit their bill. Might even be Sadiq Khan if he is deposed in the London Mayoral Election, someone in a safe seat falls on their sword to give Sadiq his opportunity  with a By Election. We are stuck with Muppets for now sadly, as none of the Parties are up to much.

 

Mixed feeling about Kier, but can't think of a better option at moment

 

No mixed feeling about the Corbynistas - just a tiny childs step away from Johnson and the hugely more popular populists IMO

The Corbynistas will end labours chances if they can

- If it aint Corbyn, we'll make sure it aint anyone approach.
 

Of course they think that its what was done to Corbyn, and a small part of Corbyns failures were undoubtedly added to by everyone except his Cabal not wanting him ...

Although most he and his inner circle needs to take credit for themselfs

 

I'm even going to vote against labour in the locals as they were and undoubtedly are Corbynistas (I asked) who are supporting dragging the issues on.

A short session with even Tory local councillors will be better than giving even the slightest impression of support for Corbyn.

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

2 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

It's really annoying, TJ. Imagine what local authorities could have done with £10bn.

 

I think you should allocate some blame to Demonic, unless that's who you meant.

 

Demonic is a spad

Nobody voted him in and nobody would

 

The blame rests with Johnson,

and to a lessor extent with Corbyn and Cameron

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

a little more on nhsx

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faculty_(company)

 

Shame they were far  more effective for vote leave than they are with peoples health care

Edited August 5, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Yep

and faculty were apparently the ones involved with

'targeted herd immunity' modelling and proposals - allegedly associated with Demonic

 

'Target their grandparents in homes first, then their kids so the adults have got nowhere to hide -  comes to mind

 

and regarding the 90 minute tests

 

"Virologists have been excluded from UK government discussions on how to respond to the coronavirus pandemic, says the UK Clinical Virology Network, which represents researchers in the field. Virologists say they were not consulted about the government’s purchase of new 90 minute tests for the coronavirus and other respiratory viruses from two UK companies, which was announced yesterday. The group sent a letter to government scientific and medical advisors, Patrick Vallance and Chris Whitty in July but say they have not heard back. “It just seems there is a rush to do everything privately,” Will Irving, one of the signatories at the University of Nottingham, told the Guardian."

 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2237475-covid-19-news-world-faces-catastrophe-from-school-closures-says-un/#

 

https://www.thecanary.co/discovery/2020/04/26/the-governments-scientific-advisory-group-attendee-is-linked-to-a-spy-agency-contractor/

Edited August 5, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Background

 

https://inews.co.uk/news/health/government-ppe-contract-private-equity-tax-haven-494587

 

https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/national-audit-office-to-investigate-15bn-spend-on-ppe/

 

https://www.cityam.com/government-faces-lawsuit-over-108m-ppe-contract-with-pest-control-firm/

 

 

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1279311067785633793.html

Edited August 6, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

"We are already pursuing a Government over the £108m PPE contracts it said it entered into with a chocolatier and a supplier of pigeon netting. "

[tobyjugg2]

mmm

 

https://www.pestfix.co.uk/coronavirus-personal-kit----face-masks-and-alcohol-sanitiser.asp

 

Cheaper at Aldi Under 6 quid for ten if I remember rightly - thats 30 quid for 50

plus less than a quid for the tiny bottle of sanitizer or a bit more for a much bigger one

 

 

Should have gone to Aldi Boris.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

Its what you get when 'the government' is prepared to lie through its teeth, then carry on lying through its teeth, whatever the cost to anyone else, to cover up their lies

 

Remember all the PPE that handcock claimed was coming from Turkey?

*while UK manufactured PPE was going abroad as the UK gov ignored offers from the manufacturers)

 

... and Turkey saying 'they asked us yesterday a week later

Then planes sent over to bring back almost sod all and most of that not suitable ...

 

Remember the easiest deal in history, us holding all the cards, which will give us EU market access without the costs and with deals across the world larger than the EU

.. and now the Johnson muppet show can't even negotiate 'the easiest deal in history' when he has 'all the cards' - including a majority in the UK

 

There's statistics, lies, damn lies, and then theres everything that comes out of johnsons' gob for which there is simply no appropriately derogatory term

 

'Johnson said' should become Synonymous with talking utter incompetent  lying sh** continuously, unashamedly and unapologetically for a lifetime

 

[tobyjugg2]

 

Even claiming 300,000 a day capacity is clearly just lying as amply demonstrated on days when there are no tests available.

 

Actual real achievable reasonably consistent maximum capacity to actually test people unquestionably seems to be around 80,000 a day.

 

3 years none stop testing to test the UK population just once.

[tobyjugg2]

Revealed: UK's rapid Covid test not yet approved by regulators

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/07/revealed-uk-rapid-covid-test-not-yet-approved-by-regulators

 

 

Must read:

https://www.evaluate.com/vantage/articles/news/deals/uk-bets-nanopore-and-nudge-rapid-covid-19-tests

 

Advert:

https://www.businessinnovationmag.co.uk/government-picks-oxford-nanopores-tech-in-roll-out-of-new-covid-19-test/

 

 

Looks to me like the 'roll-out' is a testing phase ...

 

 

 

Background info

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/standard-coronavirus-test-if-available-works-well-can-new-diagnostics-help-pandemic

Edited August 7, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

"Ministers have rejected a call from the children’s commissioner for England to bring in routine coronavirus testing in English schools."

 

"Nick Gibb, the schools minister, confirmed that teachers and pupils in England will not have access to routine testing when they reopen in September and will instead be reliant primarily on hygiene and distancing measures to control any spread of the virus."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/09/ministers-reject-call-for-weekly-covid-19-testing-in-english-schools

 

"New swab tests to confirm within 90 minutes if someone has Covid-19, as well as testing for flu, will be rolled out from next week, but Gibb confirmed that these would not as yet be used in schools."

 

Now I agree that getting our kids educated SAFELY should be our number ONE priority ..

But sending kids back into schools without a proper testing and monitoring regime to protect not just the children and teachers, but the families the children will return to, is not just 'morally indefensible' its criminal.

 

And effectively saying 'we'll test them once they show symptoms and have had time to spread it ... is beyond simply criminal.

 

Edited August 9, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

32 minutes ago, cjcregg said:

Is there any evidence that mass speculative testing is an effective strategy in reducing transmission?

 

 

I think any decent person would say that people should have been 'speculatively' tested before they were sent back from hospital into care homes given the evidence we have seen,

and that people returning from international 'hot spots' should have been 'speculatively' tested

 

... even if the common sense of it didn't break through at the time, and even given the more limited claims of testing effectiveness at the time.

 

and most would maybe even see, in the light of information we now have, (care homes and even luxury liners)

- that a regular regime of testing, would have almost certainly easily saved thousands of lives.

 

Now apply that to schools - hundreds of children all together in a small area, going home without 14 day self isolations  - or even going home to 14 day isolation to their siblings and parents and a home environment.

 

 

Of course there is 'little actual evidence' of kids being seriously ill and dying in this precise situation is there cjregg - as they have been locked down,

but then again there is no direct evidence that you jumping off a precisely 500 foot cliff would harm you in any way is there ...

Bet you wouldn't though.

 

I'm nominating you for the monthly 'Johnson says' award in the junior class cjregg ...