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    • Hi all, Love this site and it's no nonsense advice, have dipped in and out of the consumer forums over the years, mostly to assure myself that what I was doing was the right thing when dealing with various businesses (almost 100% success rate, thanks in part to reading and more reading here.). Anyway, the time is almost approaching where I might need to ask for some specific help and I have a couple of queries that I can't see definitively answered. Due to financial mismanagement and severe anxiety issues I stopped paying all unsecured debt in December 2018 (one slipped to the first week in Jan 2019 when the last payment was made having rechecked my bank statement from that period - all my unsecured debt direct debits were cancelled in early Jan 2019). This has left half a dozen debts;  a couple of credit cards, a bank loan, Shop Direct and some Hitachi Finance stuff having been sold on and passing the rounds through the usual suspects, Lowells, Link, PRA Group, others related to them, and then back to them again. I have somehow successfully managed to maintain radio silence and avoided anything more worrying than their begging letters.  I have blocked their phone calls and texts, bumped all emails to the spambox and had a chuckle at their desperate letters.  I've never had anybody at the door.  I have been at the same address since before I defaulted and all correspondence comes to my current home address.  I have NEVER contacted them or admitted any debt. In anticipation of them perhaps ramping up action at the last minute I've had a look at my credit report on Credit Karma (rec'd from this very place) and I see that the default dates on these range from May 2019 to November 2019. Also in preperation I've been reading, reading and reading lots here as advised. Obviously being in Scotland there are a lot fewer posts relating to these matters and it's always quite annoying when OP's do not follow up with any outcome on their cases - how rude! This has also left me a bit confused of when I am able to finally breathe easy (although cancelling all the direct debits in Jan 2019 was the biggest sigh of relief as I knew it was all going to be unmanageable and, well, default one, default all.). I've been reading that defaults should be filed 3-6 months after the missed payment but one of my larger debts was defaulted on 27th August 2019 when the last payment I made was 10th December 2018, meaning the first missed payment was 10th Jan 2019.   My query for now is - when should I infer that these debts are prescribed?  From when the payment was missed, or taking the default date plus 5 years from the credit report?   The three I have with the May date are moot anyway as either way they are gone - some letters from Lowell offering me 90% off to settle is what got me thinking these must have been near SB status, however I have one big 10k+ with a July date and another 10k+ at the end of August so I am feeling a bit anxious again, even though I know there is nothing to worry about with the begging letters.  Reading the various forums I am not sure why the OC's didn't take action against me when I read time and again the surprise that other posters haven't already been taken to court for lesser amounts - I'm also surprised I've avoided any action this long as there are plenty in this forum and sub forum who are whisked off to the court by the beggers minions after only a year or so after defaulting.  There are no CCJ/decrees listed on my credit report and I have not received any such judgements against me.  I still just regularly receive the begging emails to the spambox, the blocked phone calls and the letters from the they.   I'm also reading that there is no need in Scotland to send an LBC so what should I be looking out for to know that the time has come to engage with CCA requests etc?   I'm afraid in a fit I threw a lot of the paperwork out but I have a box of stuff I'm going to go through which may have the original letters from the OC's.   Thanks in advance for any advice.  
    • I'm at work now but promise to look in later. Can you confirm how you paid the first invoice?  It wasn't your fault if the signal was so poor and there was no alternative way to pay.  There must be a chance of reversing the charge with your bank.  There are no guarantees but Kev  https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09766749/officers  has never had the backbone to do court so far.  Not even in one case,  
    • OK  so you may not have outed yourself if you said "we". No matter either way you paid. Snotty letter I am surprised that they were so quick off the mark threatening Court. They usually take months to go that far. No doubt that as you paid the first one they decided to strike quickly and scare you into paying. Dear Chuckleheads  aka Alliance,  I am replying to your LOCs You may have caught me the first time but that is  the end. What a nasty organisation you are. You do realise that you now have now no reason to continue to pursue me after reading my appeal since you know that my car was not cloned. Any further pursuit will end up with a complaint to the ICO that you are breaching my GDPR.  Please confirm that you have removed my details from your records. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I haven't gone for a snotty letter this time as they know that you paid for your car in another car park. So using a shot across their bows .  If it doesn't deter them and they send in the debt collectors or the Court you will then be able to get more money back from them for  breachi.ng your data protection than they will get should they win in Court-and they have no chance of that as you have paid. So go in with guns blazing and they might see sense.  Although never underestimate how stupid they are. Or greedy.
    • Thank you. Such a good point. They did issue all 3 before I paid though. I only paid one because I didn’t have proof of parking that time, only for two others.    Unfortunately no proof of my appeal as it was just submitted through a form on their website and no copy was sent to me. I only have the reply. I believe I just put something like “we made the honest mistake of using the incorrect parking area on the app” and that’s it. Thanks again for your help. 
    • They are absolute chuckleheads. You paid but because you entered a different car park site also belonging to them they are pursuing you despite them knowing what you had done. It would be very obvious to everyone, including Alliance that your car could not have been in two places at the same time. Thank you for posting the PCN so quickly making it a pity that you appealed since there are so many things wrong with it that you as keeper are not liable to pay the charge. They rarely accept appeals since that would mean they lose money but they have virtually no chance of beating you in Court. Very unlikely that they will take you to Court given the circumstances. Just in case you didn't out yourself as the driver could you please post up your appeal.
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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One year review of enforcement agent reforms


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One year review of enforcement agent reforms

 

This year 1 post implementation review evaluates reforms introduced in April 2014 on how enforcement agents operate and the fees they charge.

 

READ MORE HERE: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/one-year-review-of-enforcement-agent-reforms

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Thank you for posting the above document.

 

Some interesting info has come out of it but there is still other points that have been missed.

 

For instance in regard to the 7 day notice of enforcement [4.4.2] a point was made that some people do not recall having received the Notice.

They do not appear to have heard that some companies are not sending out the Notices or are giving people less than the mandatory 7 clear days.

 

another point that wasn't raised was on the subject of a broken agreement.

It seems harsh that someone who has taken the time to call within the 7 day time period and made an agreement to pay and has paid for some time

-specially if their payment is only a day or two late, perhaps because of a bank holiday, that they should be punished by a £235 clump.

This seems totally inequitable and is often the result of the bailiff setting too high a repayment plan initially. And this is one reason that an Ombudsman is required.

 

For once a Judge has examined the whole situation and deciding a fairer punishment it should pull into line those companies that are calling on late payers within a day or two with a view to increasing their fees-not to assist the debt payer who may or may not be having further money problems.

 

Another advantage of a Bailiff Ombudsman would be that they could handle complaints in a fairer way about the way bailiffs deal with debtors. The present system cannot be right where a debtor with a genuine complaint should end up in Court facing a massive legal cost should the Judgement go against them.

 

I was pleased to see that they acknowledged that some Police are insufficiently aware of bailiff law that when called they can advise the debtor to let the bailiff in though there doesn't appear to be any recommendations nor advice on how the Police should react at people's homes. It may be often the case that the debtor has called the Police because of an over aggressive or zealous bailiff and then has been told to let the bailiff in further compounding the debtor's hurt.

Edited by dx100uk
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I am still reading through the review and will have a lot of comments to make later this morning.

 

I really do hope that such an important thread as this one will not be hidden from view in the 'discussion' area.

 

Another advantage of a Bailiff Ombudsman would be that they could handle complaints in a fairer way about the way bailiffs deal with debtors. The present system cannot be right where a debtor with a genuine complaint should end up in Court facing a massive legal cost should the Judgement go against them.

 

Can I just make an important point. Approx 2 months ago it was confirmed by the government that they will not fund an Independent Regulator.

 

I was surprised to read in the 'One Year Review' the reference to individuals having to take complaints about bailiffs to court. Although I have not properly read the review, there was no mention at all of the sterling work done by the Local Government Ombudsman and the way I which they have dealt with well over 1,000 complaints since the introduction of the Taking Control of Goods Regulations were introduced in April 2014.

 

I am pleased that the Ministry of Justice have made the position very clear about the inaccurate online 'myth' that paying the local authority or magistrate court direct means that bailiff fees can been avoided:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/695833/one-year-review-bailiff-reform

 

4.7.3.

 

Direct payment of debt

 

One issue raised by enforcement agents is that debtors are sometimes erroneously advised (mainly by informal online sources) to pay their creditor directly after receiving notice that the enforcement process has begun, in an attempt to avoid the enforcement fees.

 

In this situation, the creditor is supposed to pay the compliance fee to the enforcement agent out of the debtor’s payment and the shortfall remains outstanding.

If the debt has reached the enforcement stage it becomes more complicated as the enforcement fee is paid pro rata from the amount paid off. This leads to an administrative burden on the Local Authority as they have to separate the fees and a portion of the debt still remains requiring enforcement.

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4.7.3.

 

Direct payment of debt

 

One issue raised by enforcement agents is that debtors are sometimes erroneously advised (mainly by informal online sources) to pay their creditor directly after receiving notice that the enforcement process has begun, in an attempt to avoid the enforcement fees.

 

In this situation, the creditor is supposed to pay the compliance fee to the enforcement agent out of the debtor’s payment and the shortfall remains outstanding.

 

If the debt has reached the enforcement stage it becomes more complicated as the enforcement fee is paid pro rata from the amount paid off. This leads to an administrative burden on the Local Authority as they have to separate the fees and a portion of the debt still remains requiring enforcement.

 

As some viewers will know, the subject of paying the creditor direct (in order to avoid paying bailiff fees) was the subject of a court claim last year. The debtor (Mr Bola) lost his claim and was ordered to pay £7,000 in costs. Given the importance of the subject, I started two separate threads regarding the case. The first thread was to provide an outline of the case with the second thread being for 'discussion' purposes.

 

Given the importance of the subject, that the threads have received in excess of 50,000 views !!

 

Following the judgment, the claimant did not pay the cost order (of £7,000). Instead, he made an application to appeal both the claim itself and the subsequent cost order. Last week His Honour John Hand QC dismissed both appeals.

 

PS: If one of the moderators would be kind enough to re-open the following thread for a few hours, I will post up a copy of the Order.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?477808-Paying-the-creditor-direct-to-avoid-paying-bailiff-fees-has-landed-a-debtor-with-a-%A37-000-cost-order.

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Turning back to the 'One Year' review:

 

In 2015, I responded to the One Year review and provided supporting evidence and since that time, have also responded to various Consultations and stakeholder discussions.

 

In response to Question 9 (Have there been any other consequences of the reforms, positive or negative, not covered in the questions), I highlighted the following areas of concern.

 

High Court Enforcement fees

 

Third Party Claims (CPR 85)

 

Paying the local authority or court direct

 

Notice of Enforcement (period of notice).

 

Goods subject to Hire Purchase

 

Sale stage fee of £110

 

Storage fees

 

Recycling of warrants

 

Re-sealing of warrants

 

Controlled Goods Agreement (in relation to a motor vehicle)

 

Definition of 'Highway'.

 

I will provide further details of my response under each of the above headings later today but in relation to some of the areas; (for example: Vehicles subject to Hire Purchase, Definition of a Highway, Paying the Council (or Court) direct and Interpleader (Part 85) claims, clarification has been given by way of court decisions (that I have highlighted on this forum since 2014).

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