council tax liability order but council tax paid as part of rent

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Dear team

 

No matter what I do I cannot post this to your consumer forums online as you won't verify my email which I do not find in the spam folder or any other folder, it is not being sent.

 

Council tax liability order was received after I received a notice to quit from my landlord on July 31st 2017 at [address removed]. At this time I was considered homeless by the council and I have attached all forms to prove it.

 

The agreement shorthold assured tenancy states at 3b that all council tax as might apply to the rental of the room at flat [address removed] will be paid by the landlord as included in the rent, it is signed by both of us but the council says it does not stand and that I owe the tax for the room that is let to me at the property owned by my landlord and where he and his wife also are in residence as the owners of the property. The room has its own cooking facilitys and toilet so not share with rest of house though there are common areas such as the hall.

 

The council tax liability order is dated to 20th august 2017 but i have a tenancy agreement with the council for [another address] from the 14th august 2017 which I prove (attached) There is no case number as it is just part of a batch assignment at bristol magistrates court for the 21st march 2018, there being no court to attend.

 

The senior local taxation officer as Mrs F addresses none of the points I make to her and neither does any council office. They have advised me that I may appeal to a tribunal service but is that the best way forward here.? It seems wrong to me that they can do this in view of all the circumstances with even the dates wrong on the liability order itself, but because there is no court case I can appear at they seem to be able to dictate PRETTY MUCH ANYTHING THEY LIKE WITH NO RECOURSE TO ANY FACTS, AT ALL.

 

The council tax officer states S.6 of the local government finance act

1992 makes my tenancy agreement with my landlord void?

 

The fact that you vacated earlier than the end of your tenancy may or may not make you liable for the remaining period of council tax (it depends on the exact circumstances and isn't always straight forward) -S6 of the LGFA is the primary legislation for determining liability and terms in the agreement which try to override this will not usually succeed, it does not void your tenancy rather it just ignores aspects which are not relevant for council tax purposes.

 

There is a court hearing for the granting of the liability order at the Magistrates' Court, and you can attend it, but the Magistrates are prevented in law from considering a dispute such as yours over period of liability. A period of liability and the subsequent balance can be adjusted where required, 'wrong dates' won't automatically remove a liability order that has or will be been granted.

 

It is unlikely that an argument over whether it is a 'room' or a 'dwelling' and liable for council tax would succeed so it's likely not worth going down that route. In some ways you have fallen in to one of the biggest traps that catches people - paying council tax to the landlord. In the vast majority of cases this is incorrect, the landlord cannot (with or without your agreement) directly decide who is going to pay a council tax charge.

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I understand my tenancy contract to be a legally binding document between myself and my landlord and signed. If that is the case in law then surely upon that agreement where my landlord states that he covers the council tax then the authorities should pursue my landlord and not me. The fact that they cannot pursue my landlord is absolutely nothing to do with me, it is their loss.

 

No - any agreement between you and the landlord cannot override legislation. It is nothing more than a contract between you and the landlord only, it has no bearing on the council.

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The fact that they have the date wrong does not matter either? This infers that anyone living anywhere else can be asked to pay council tax for a place they did not even live in. My God, this is sounding like the wild west. Is there any law that si respectable and has a moral grounding? or is the Uk now just full of thugs in cloaks?

 

No, it doesn't - what it means is that dates are regarded to be correct based on the council's determination of liability until they are amended, therefore they cannot in effect be wrong. If you can show that it should be a different date then a new decision can be made with the correct dates.

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Plus the agreemnt at 3 b states that he will take the resonsility for paying any council tax as may become due not that my landlord orders me to pay a set council tax!

 

That's between you and your landlord, you'd need to chase him yourself to enforce this clause.

 

There is also the situation to consider of being classified as homeless officially and under the direction of an eviction for the dates mentioned. Does that make any difference at all or are the homeless now responsible for any councils demand for money?

Makes no difference - council tax liability is determined solely under council tax legislation. If other legislation has different determinations under the same circumstances then that is purely within the effect of that other legislation only.

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I did not vacate. I was under an eviction order from the court and considered homeless by the council itself! until i was rehoused by them on the 14th august2017, from the eviction date I am surely not liable for council tax?

 

Doesn't in itself matter that there was an eviction notice, what matters is purely how your situation fits within s6 of the LGFA 1992.

 

Instead of batting away at other issues the only that is relevant is your position in respect of liability at the property between 14th and 20th August 2017 (if I read your dates right). Holding a tenancy for another property makes no particular difference by itself but when did you leave the property and move in to the new property.

 

What date did your tenancy formally end and, at the point the tenancy ended, was in in a fixed term period, a fixed term that continued under a contractual agreement or a fixed term that had ended and become a statutory periodic.

[ss002d6252]

Who pays Council Tax?

 

Normally the person who lives in a property will have to pay the Council Tax. The list below shows who should pay in order of responsibility (from top to bottom):

 

1. A resident freeholder
   
2. A resident leaseholder
   
3. A resident statutory or secure tenant
   
4. A resident licensee
   
5. Someone who lives in the property with no security of tenure
   
6. The owner (the person entitled to legal possession)
   

For example:

 

• If there is no resident freeholder (1) then the resident leaseholder (2) will be liable. If there is no resident freeholder (1) nor a resident leaseholder (2) then the resident tenant (3) will be liable to pay etc. until the liable person is determined.
  
• IF MY LANDLORD LIVED IN THE PROPERTY AS RESIDENT THEN HE IS LIABLE FOR ALL COUNCIL TAX ISN'T HE? my landlord keeps flat 4 for himself and his wife and his wife is owner.
  

 

The summary of s6(2) of the LGFA 1992 misses out far too much to be of particular use in your case - it helps in simple cases but that is only 1 part of s6, s6(2) cannot be read in isolation, to do so will not deal correctly with the issue at hand.

 

He did not live in your property - for council tax purposes the property you were occupying was banded as an individual dwelling for council tax purposes. Any determination can only be made in respect of that individual dwelling, what happens in the rest of the property does not matter (this particular point goes far beyond s6 of the LGFA 1992 - there's numerous bits of legislation which would need looked at argue that decision).

 

Quite simply , what you have posted so far does not give enough to provide an answer with (see post #16).

 

 

(I've just done a professional qualification in council tax law and haven't come across any cases where this has already been challenged)

 

IRRV course ?

[ss002d6252]

If tenancy agreements - when they start , and when they stop make no difference surely the council is in the dangerous position of being able to dictate and demand to anyone anywhere that they owe council tax on another property whether they were resident in that property or not .Isn't that a mockery?

Not really, they just have to be read alongside council tax legislation. Council Tax legislation covers numerous situations including those where no tenancy agreement is held.

 

But I did not own the flat as in being a leaseholder or with a freehold mortgage. I am simply a shorthold tenant, surely that classification puts me at number 3 - tenant.

If only it was that simple - that applies only whilst you are resident (resident has a specific council tax definition)

 

 

If it had lapsed in to a statutory periodic tenancy then s6(1), (2), (5) and (6) of the LGFA 1992 apply. As reiterated in the Court of Appeal case of Leeds CC v Broadley this means that a tenant in a statutory periodic tenancy cannot be liable for the council tax charge once they cease being resident in the property (although they may still retain rent liability, that is due to the different legislation which applies). They would not be the first council to get it wrong over the different tenancy types and how they interact.

[ss002d6252]

It mentions the word council tax and the promise to pay it in the wording, how much more plain can it get?

 

Even if you ignored the council tax legislation for a moment and look at it contractually. You made a contractual agreement with the landlord only. A contractual agreement between two parties cannot bind a third party unless that third party have agreed to be -the council haven't.

 

All this is going around in circles anyway as your agreement with the landlord cannot override statute, the council are only able to follow what legislation says is the case. You need to sort out your liability with the council and then pursue the landlord yourself for any monies he may owe you.

[ss002d6252]

I just found this at https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/forum/residential-letting-questions/43739-council-tax

Whoever is registered to pay the council tax, is the one that has to pay it,

so if it's not you, the council will have to go after the tenant for council tax ,

and does not concern you.

Unless you are still registered to pay the council, in which case, unless you

stipulated that the rent included council tax, or an extra payment was

required, you cant ask for council tax if you are the ones down to pay.

 

in which case, unless you stipulated the the rent included council tax, and in my case that was done at 3(b) of an assured shorthold tenancy that became a periodic.

 

The person who is registered on the council tax account will pay by virtue of the fact that the council will chase the person shown on the council tax account until they get sufficient evidence that they are not liable - this will always be the case. The determination is made under legislation not a 'the landlord said he will pay agreement'.

 

Does the person in the statutory periodic tenancy expired and served with a Notice Requiring Possession' still live in the property and liable for council tax? or are they homeless as the council awarded a status of homelessness still owe council tax?

You can be called whatever you like - what matters are the facts of the situation. Being termed homeless or not make no difference - only the facts of the situation as they apply to council tax.

 

When would it be reasonable to presume they did not owe council tax a sit seems they can now owe council tax whilst being deemed resident in two different properties,(whether they are or not ) one of which they are evicted form. It seems that "cease to be resident in the property" is open to interpretation and may extend long after the tenant thinks they have left .

As I have already said, resident is a specific term for council tax purposes- you cannot try to reinvent the term. The fact is that a person may be liable for council tax on more than one property at a time - providing the right criteria are met in legislation then a person can be liable on a property since 1993 yet never been resident (or even lived in it).

 

At the end of the day there's only so many times you can be told that a personal agreement etc makes no difference. If you want to ignore discussing the correct issues with the council then they are simply going to continue to chase you for the money and you will go around in circles again. You may or may not be liable for the period in question, it depends on the exact circumstances and how legislation applies under s6, but simply arguing the landlord had an agreement to pay will not make the issue go away.