Silly son (age 18) vs Halifax

[Bubble]

My horrible son (aged 18) has a Cardcash account with Halifax and recently took out a £1000 loan also with Halifax (without me knowing, I should add!).

 

Incidentally, he lied about working and they clearly didn’t check up on him.

 

A repayment was returned as he didn’t have enough money in his account and he was charged £39. Together we called the loan department so that I could try and make a payment for him using my debit card but the operator insisted that his loan account wasn’t in arrears.

 

Two days later he received notification that he had incurred another £39 charge as the direct debit had been represented and returned!

 

To cut a long story short, we phoned the loans department who insisted his account wasn’t in arrears, etc, etc. Two further £39 charges were charged to his cardcash account before I (we) cancelled the direct debit and I finally persuaded someone to accept a cheque for the outstanding loan repayment. The loans department also refunded the charges that they had added to his loan account

 

We wrote to Halifax explaining the situation and requesting a refund of the £156 in charges incurred on his Cardcash account. We received an offer of £78. They also wrote a threatening letter asking that he clear the £130 unauthorised overdraft that he had incurred as a result of the charges (he doesn’t have an overdraft facility on his account) To top it all unauthorised overdrafts on this account are charged interest of almost 30%.

 

My son (well, me really!) has now filed a claim and Halifax have until 23rd November to respond. God help us if he actually has to attend Court!!!

 

I wouldn’t mind but my twit-like son thinks it is all rather amusing.

 

Bubble

[michelle73]

My horrible son (aged 18) has a Cardcash account with Halifax and recently took out a £1000 loan also with Halifax (without me knowing, I should add!).

 

Incidentally, he lied about working and they clearly didn’t check up on him.

 

A repayment was returned as he didn’t have enough money in his account and he was charged £39. Together we called the loan department so that I could try and make a payment for him using my debit card but the operator insisted that his loan account wasn’t in arrears.

 

Two days later he received notification that he had incurred another £39 charge as the direct debit had been represented and returned!

 

To cut a long story short, we phoned the loans department who insisted his account wasn’t in arrears, etc, etc. Two further £39 charges were charged to his cardcash account before I (we) cancelled the direct debit and I finally persuaded someone to accept a cheque for the outstanding loan repayment. The loans department also refunded the charges that they had added to his loan account

 

We wrote to Halifax explaining the situation and requesting a refund of the £156 in charges incurred on his Cardcash account. We received an offer of £78. They also wrote a threatening letter asking that he clear the £130 unauthorised overdraft that he had incurred as a result of the charges (he doesn’t have an overdraft facility on his account) To top it all unauthorised overdrafts on this account are charged interest of almost 30%.

 

My son (well, me really!) has now filed a claim and Halifax have until 23rd November to respond. God help us if he actually has to attend Court!!!

 

I wouldn’t mind but my twit-like son thinks it is all rather amusing.

 

Bubble

 

Good luck bubble, and give your son a smack round the head from me!!! lol!!

[Armsoft]

Bubble,

You need to follow up your letter to the Halifax, and their threatening letter, as you are disputing the charges on the account, they can`t threaten you, and should they continue they are breaching various codes of conduct, so advise them that whilst this is being disputed they need to decist their threats, or you will contact the Financial Ombudsmann.

[Bubble]

UPDATE - sorry it's a bit long

 

The saga drags on.

 

Halifax stated that they intended to defend the claim….but didn’t. The Court issued a Judgement but Halifax still did not pay up. I applied for a Warrant of Execution and Halifax finally repaid the charges, interest and costs.

 

Meanwhile, Silly Son is trying to be more responsible with his money and now gives me cash each month so I can send a cheque for his Halifax loan repayment. In January my father was very ill and I completely forgot to send the cheque for a few days with the result that my son’s payment was 6 days late.

 

I wrote to the Halifax loan dept and explained the circumstances and asked if the £25 charge that my son had incurred could be waived. They said ‘NO’ and meanwhile they wrote a letter - another £20 charge and made a telephone call - a charge of £10. I might have paid the £25 but for the past two months Halifax Collections have called night and day, seven days a week and the £25 charge is now nearly £90. We are receiving 20 – 30 calls a week so I was very interested to see the Halifax Harassment case in the news.

 

I have started a new case against Halifax (a loan account) and just want the charges waived and the phone to stop ringing. As I haven’t logged all the calls I thought it might be worth trying to use the SAR to get a call log from Halifax. If they are charging these extortionate administration costs, they must surely keep a record of all their administrative duties??!!

 

I am so fed up that I have cobbled together all the relevant bits of templates and put them in one letter – including claims of harassment and terrorisation! If anyone can caste an eye over the letter I would be very grateful. I really am in way over my head now.

 

Re: Loan agreement: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

1. Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

 

a) Please supply me with a complete list of the dates and times that you have made telephone calls to my home landline number – xxxxxxxxxx. This should include all calls that were answered, either by the answering machine, another individual in my home, or myself.

 

Please also inform me of the logic of any automated decisions regarding the timing and frequency of these telephone calls to me pursuant to section 7[1][d] of the Data Protection Act 1998

 

If you require any further information from me, or a fee, please let me know as soon as possible. You have 40 days in which to comply.

 

If you do not normally handle these requests please pass my request to a Data Protection Officer or other appropriate Officer.

 

2.Request for the repayment of unlawful charges applied to account: xxxxx

 

I am also writing to ask that you refund all the unlawful charges which you have applied to my account since August 2006.

 

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to ‘administration costs’ are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs. Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

 

 

I calculate that you have unlawfully charged me £95.50. I enclose a schedule of the charges which I am claiming with this letter.

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment. If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments. After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

 

3. Harassment by telephone

 

On numerous occasions I have verbally informed you that the quantity and frequency of your telephone calls are such that I feel personally harassed and intimidated.

 

You will be aware that I have given written authorisation for you to discuss the above account with my mother, xxxxxxx (copy enclosed). My mother has also verbally requested that the telephone calls stop and, in her letter dated 19th March 2007, complained about their frequency and their inappropriate timing (copy enclosed). My mother is very distressed that you are still making 20 – 30 telephone calls a week. My mother informs me that approximately 20% of your calls are silent and she is starting to feel terrorised. It is only by dialling 1471 that she knows that the call is from Halifax. On the occasions when she has dialled 14713 to try to talk to the caller, she has been charged more than five times the cost of a local call as a result of your calls being made from a non-geographical 0870 number (which does not even give the caller the opportunity to record a message).

 

I now require all further contact from Halifax to be in writing only.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone you will also be in breach of the Wireless Telegraphy Act (1949) and I will report you to both Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, which could result in an order for you to pay a substantial fine. Furthermore, this type of debt collection method is contrary to the Administration of Justice Act 1970 and you will be aware that such behaviour can result in prosecution and would certainly raise questions relating to your fitness to hold a licence under the Consumer Credit Act.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from Halifax will be recorded and passed on with a formal complaint to all relevant authorities. Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

 

 

I look forward to your response.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Any suggestions would be very gratefully received.

 

Bubble

[Aaronsdad]

Can I suggest you write my letters?

 

I think you've got it all covered. I'll watch with interest to see what the reply is. Only thing I can see is that you've asked for £95.50 of charges to be refunded but haven't mentioned any interest. Not the s69 - 8% but any interest added on to the debt because of charges!

 

I used Admin of Justice 1970 against my builders who were sending round heavies for payment for a half assed job. I certainly wouldn't like to be accused under it as it covers any action likely to cause alarm, distress or humiliation. That could be anything!!

 

good luck

 

A D

[Bubble]

Thanks for your reply AD

 

Bit worried about this one as I think I have stuck my neck out further than my capabilities!!!

You're right about the interest - it's not very clear in the letter - but I have included it on the schedule which totals £95.50

 

Fingers crossed!!

[debbiVwoolwich]

Hi if you have a BT line you can have a option called"choose to refuse" you add the numbers of any callers you wish to block. when they call they get a msg saying the caller has chosen not to accept your call. costs I think around £3 per mth, I had the Halifax ringing me and most were silent calls, so took up the bt service and bliss !!!!!

[Bubble]

Thanks for the responses received.

 

Following the lengthy letter I sent Halifax on 20th April 2007 all telephone calls from them ceased on 27th April - marvelous!

 

BUT...my son received a Default Notice from them today (30th April) and the charges have risen fron £95.50 to £108.10. There has been no other correspondence from them so it is not clear what this additional £12.40 is for (interest perhaps?).

 

I was intending to send an LBA on Friday but am not sure what to do now he has received this Notice.

 

I feel partially responsible as these charges have accrued because I posted one instalment a few days late. On the other hand, although I have sent all the other payments on time, I have rarely received the cash on time from silly son.

 

I do realise that I am not really helping my son take responsiblity for his finances, but I don't want him to have an awful credit history so I am now wondering if I should pay the arrears and then continue to reclaim the charges as planned.

 

The default notice is purely due to the one payment that was one week late.

 

Any ideas or advice, please....

 

Mamny thanks

 

Bubble

[Bubble]

God this is turning into a nightmare....and I hate Halifax more than ever....

 

Please can anyone advise:

 

1. Am I right in thinking that, as I have already asked for the unlawful charges to be returned, the loan account is 'in dispute' and a default notice can't be served until the dispute is resolved?

 

2. I have sent a Notice pursuant to s.10 of the DPA 1998 in the meantime - I hope this is right???? All the monthly instalments are up to date and paid regularly. The arrears are solely due to charges that have mounted up following one late payment charge of £25.

 

3. Although the telephone calls stopped between 26th April and 9th May, yesterday there were two calls. One caller (at 7.45pm) was very rude, would not let me speak to a supervisor or manager and then hung up on me!!!

 

It's amazing really....Where on earth do they get these people from????

 

Anyway I was absolutely livid ... and I know I am going to regret this - but...I had used the harassment template letter which states:

 

"Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call, may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003".

 

...so I decided to report the rude call as a crime. I don't want to waste police time but I really feel this sort of intrusive and abusive phone call is totally unacceptable.

 

Having written a formal request to Halifax to only communicate by letter, I stated in my online crime report that I was alarmed and distressed and harassed, etc. by the call which is in breach of the Wireless Telegraphy Act, etc. etc.

 

I really am on a bit of a mission with this, I know, but I have sent off £10 and a SAR for the dates and times of all telephone calls made to my landline number. Halifax must have this information recorded as they have often charged my son £10 for the privilege of receiving a call from them.

 

My question is -

 

What do I do now?? If the calls continue do I press for a prosecution??? Will the police think I am wasting their time (and that I am a nutter!!!)

 

Does anyone have any suggestions....please????

 

Bubble

[bathgatebuyer]

Sorry you're getting the same kind of grief I faced form these idiots, it's not nice and it's certainly no way to treat a customer. I was on hold to them once, and I could hear the full details of exactly what one of the other employees was shouting down the phone at some other poor sod who owed them money. It was totally outrageous," Can you turn your TV down.......................if you don't pay us this money, the bailiffs will be round and they'll take your TV...............................do you want the bailiffs round.............................". Absolutely atrocious.

 

1- yes that's what I believe to be the case. The Nationwide have completely cleared my credit records after I raised this issue with them, and although I had some late payments on my credit file, they were all removed as these were solely accrued as a result of the charges. The Halifax have been a bit more problematic. They settled with me in mid-December yet still notified the CRAs of a default served in the October (when the account was in dispute). I received a letter of apology from the Chief Exec's office about this and they guaranteed that they would make sure that it was removed from CRA records, and it was. Until I noticed that Callcredit had a default registered on it - when I wrote to them to change it, it became clear, and the default suddenly reappeared again on Experian!!!! So, 6 months on after settling with me, I'm still trying to resolve this issue on my credit file;

2 - Think that's right;

3 - The law is there to protect people from harassment. The worst thing I found about the Halifax was the calls from that 0845 number which were nearly 10 times a day. On most occasions I would bark down the phone, "Hello.............hello..................hello......................." and then it would hang up. Then when someone did eventually call after a day of the phone ringing once or two before cutting off, they denied that any previous efforts to call had been made. One member of staff, however, did advise that the automated dialler is programmed to dial until there is record of somone speaking to a member of staff. So, they will continue ringing until the phone is answered. Basically, you are at the whim of their automated dialler!

 

If you have used the harassment letter and they persist in calling, then I wouldn't have any hesitation in contacting whomever necessary to take action against this. Keep noting the time of every single call you receive from them whether answered or not. It really is torture to endure these from them. If a pervert in a phone box was calling you 9 or 10 times a week and hanging up after just one or two rings, you'd report it, and these banks and their dirty dealings should be viewed as nothing more than a crass old pervert wanting to cause you as much upset as possible and harass you into paying.

 

Just out of interest, what age was your son when he took out the loan? I don't know the law on this, but aren't they legally required to check his employment status?

[Bubble]

Bathgatebuyer - Thank you for your reply and your support.

Out of interest – have you managed to get your default removed?

I did write to Halifax to say that I was surprised that a default would be registered when the account was in dispute. We have now received a letter to say that it is only a pre-default notice – apparently this has been issued because Halifax want to assist my son!!! Classic!

After I reported the more recent calls to the police I received a phone call from an Officer who told me that the police would be classifying the call as a ‘crime-related incident’ and that they would ‘definitely not be taking further action’ – so not a lot of support there (perhaps they have HBOS shares!). I wrote to Halifax quoting the police CAD number and the calls have stopped again.

I have filed a claim for a full refund of the charges as we received a “-*-* off response” to our LBA.

However, I am particularly interested to see if the DPA Subject Access Request materialises with a log of all calls made to my home number. There have been so many that I am intrigued to see how Halifax will be able to provide an accurate log of the calls…but deny “harassment”!

In response to your last query – my son was 18 years and 1 month when he applied for the loan. I don’t think lenders ‘have’ to check an applicant’s background but my belief is that a ‘responsible lender’ should make some attempt to ensure that the applicant is able to manage the repayments…or should that be the applicant’s mum?!

[bathgatebuyer]

No worries. In respect of getting the Halifax default removed, this was really just the result of writing quite a few letters. I had exactly the same issue with the Nationwide and in both instances I advised that info relating defaults cannot be passed to third parties when there is an ongoing dispute. The Nationwide quickly responded and I now have a whiter than white credit history with them - apparently I've never missed a payment!

 

With the Halifax, it did take quite a bit longer and a hell of a lot of cheek from some of the staff in their Collections team, although experienced of others in this website appears to be that it's par for the course dealing with them. My default issue was finally resolved when I made a complaint to their Chief Execs Office. I have more than one letter from them advising that an error was made and that they were most apologetic!