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    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
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    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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TPS PCN Pilgrim Hospital, Boston, Lincolnshire


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Hi Guys

I've drafted an appeals letter to TPS - should I mention the word"appeal" in the letter or does this legitimize the original PCN?

I've also done the same for the Trust.

Any comments would be appreciated and I won't be offended!

 

Personally, I'd remove the pictures. Why waste your ink.

 

Also, in the paragraph under the pictures...

 

The machine dispensing tickets also had no contractual conditions that indicated or created a contract between myself (the driver) and TPS, so no contract exists......

 

 

This would identify you (the keeper) as the driver at the time. Don't give them an easy ride! I would change that to...

 

The machine dispensing tickets also had no contractual conditions that indicated or created a contract between the driver and TPS, so no contract exists......

  • Confused 1

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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From their reply, it does sound slightly odd that the "discounted" amount of £60, is exactly the same as the "full" amount. That's some discount! :razz:

 

As the BPA code of practice says that they MUST offer you 40% discount for prompt payment (not that you're going to pay anyway), this means that the 'discounted' payment should in fact be £36 and not the £60 that they're demanding. And as you now have that in black & white directly from the horses mouth (regardless as to what it may or may not say on any of their signs) they won't really have a leg to stand on if they try to take it any further and try and charge you more.

 

In fact, having just re-read your post that included images of the signage, that states that it will be reduced to £30.

 

They need to make their minds up :-D

 

Interesting times ahead :wink:

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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  • 3 weeks later...

POPLA is fine to do online. However, the last time I used it, the online form was quite limited. Submit any further evidence via email with any relevant reference numbers and attachments like photos etc that you're relying on as part of your POPLA appeal :thumb:

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'd be tempted to respond to their 'evidence' thus...

 

 

The operator has had ample opportunity to gather their evidence and submit same to POPLA so that POPLA can properly adjudicate on this matter. I note with some interest that the operator has uploaded detailed maps showing the location of various signs as well as the entrance sign.

 

Unfortunately, the operator has submitted as evidence, maps and signage from a completely different site that has absolutely no relevance in the matter that is being appealed to POPLA.

 

The operator has submitted maps and signage from LINCOLN hospital, whereas the alleged parking event that the operator is claiming that I am liable for (as the recorded keeper) was at BOSTON hospital, which even by the quickest possible vehicle route is over an hour away from Lincoln hospital.

 

I therefore submit that the operators evidence is not only flawed, it is irrelevant and shows that they are unable to even get the basic matters correct and completely undermines any other evidence that they can or can hope to produce.

 

I request that the adjudicator find against the operator in this matter as they have failed to produce any evidence.

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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  • 3 weeks later...

That is absolutely ridiculous!

 

Did you happen to get copies of their so called 'evidence'?

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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Well, ultimately, TPS no have to take you to court to ever hope of getting any money out of you, and a judge will look at all of the evidence. The POPLA decision is only binding on the parking company thumbup.gif

 

No doubt you'll now get the usual barrage of junk mail/begging letters from DCA's (ignore them but keep them) but I wouldn't worry about it until a letter before action arrives.

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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