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    • I have never heard of any such law. Please post a link to what you have read online that explains this law. And please confirm whether you were ever married to or in a formal Civil Partnership with your Ex.
    • Today has been hectic so  have been unable to complete the whole thing. If you now understand it and want to go ahead with a complaint to the IPC, fine. If not then I won't need to finish it. But below is my response to your request  on post 64. No you don't seem stupid, the Protection of Freedoms Act isn't easy to get one 's head around at first. The part of the above Act referring to private parking is contained within Schedule 4 which you can find online under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Section 9 of SCH.4 relates to how the parking scrotes have to perform so that they can transfer their right to pursue the keeper from the driver when the PCN is still unpaid after a certain amount of time. In your case the PCN was posted to you the keeper and arrived within 14 days from when they claimed a breach occurred. That means they complied with first part of the Act. The driver at that time was still responsible to pay the charge demanded on the PCN and PCM now have to wait for 28 days to elapse before they can write and advise the keeper that as the charge has not been paid, that they now have the right to pursue the keeper. They claim they sent the first PCN on the 13th March, five days after the alleged breach and it arrived on Friday 15th March. So to comply with the Act they have to observe Section 8 subsection 2f   (f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given— (i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------So the first PCN was deemed to arrive on the 15th March and for 28 days to have elapsed is when the time is right for them to write and say you are now liable as keeper. So they sent the next PCN on the 12th April which is too early as you could still have paid until midnight of the 12th. So the earliest their second PCN should have gone to you was  Saturday 13th April so more likely on Monday 15th April. The IPC Code of Conduct states "Operators must be aware of their legal obligations and implement the relevant legislation and guidance when operating their businesses." So by issuing your demand a day early, they have broken the Act, the IPC Code of Conduct, the DVLA agreement  to abide by the law and the Code of Conduct not to mention a possible breach of your GDPR .   I asked the IPC  in the letter on an earlier to confirm that  CPMs Notice misrepresenting the law was a standard practice for all of PCMs Notices or just certain ones. Their distribution  may depend on when they were issued and whether they were issued in certain localities or for certain breaches. Whichever method used is a serious breach of the Law and could lead to PCM being black listed by the DVLA . One would expect that after that even if the IPC did not cancel your ticket, PCM could not risk going to Court with you nor even pursuing you any further.
    • thanks jk2054 - do you know any law i can quote (regarding timeframe) when sending the email as if i cant they'll probably just say no like the normal staff have done? thanks.
    • I lived there with her up until I gave notice. She took over the tenancy in her name. I had a letter from the council and a refund of the council tax for 1 month.    She took on the bills and tenancy and only paid the rent. No utility bills or council tax were paid once she took it over. She will continue to not pay bills in her new house which I'm now having to pay or will have to. I have looked online I believe the police and solicitors are going by the partner law to make me liable.   I have always paid my bills and ensured her half was paid then see how much free money is over.   She spends all her money on payday loans and rubbish then panics about the rent. I usually end up paying it or having to get her a loan.   Stupidly in my name but at the time it was because she was my partner. I even paid to move her and clean and decorate her old house so she got the deposit back. It cost me £3000 due to the mess she always leaves behind.
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If the EA company is charging £75 just for sending a letter,

why can they not sent the notice registered post,

and have proof when this was received, rather than assuming, the debtor has received it ?

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There are quite a number of folks who won't accept any form of signed for delivery. Better just to have a proof of postage, even for bulk postings this is possible where they are all entered & the Post Office will stamp the document as being received.

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They are not charging £75 "just" to send a letter.

There is a lot of admin work along with the cost of the servers, storage, overheads etc that need to be paid too.

And like ploddertom has quite rightly said, most debtors would refuse to sign for the letter so causes more of an issue.

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Thanks for the replies.

It just made sense to me, if this was done then there could be no dispute,

 

It just seems to be a bit one sided against the debtor when mistakes are made,

As a lot of posters know there as some companies do not follow the rules ,

and seem to get away with it !

Grumpy I do understand there is a lot of work done beforehand

just seems to be a bit one sided.

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If the EA company is charging £75 just for sending a letter, why can they not sent the notice registered post,

and have proof when this was received, rather than assuming, the debtor has received it ?

 

Firstly there is a significant cost element. The postal rate is very expensive and there is a significant administrative cost as well.

 

However, that aside, the major stumbling block is that with members of the public who are employed, they will usually have left home before the postal delivery and accordingly, the item of registered mail will be left at the local post office for collection. In most cases, the individual will be unable to make a personal visit until the weekend and will no doubt discover that the 'compliance stage' had expired.

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Thanks once again BA

 

My problem with this is, if it was not sent, or sent to the wrong address,

and we know this can happen,

the debtor would not have been able to seek an agreement.(which I thought was the idea behind the regs)

then is hit with another charge(£235)

The debtor can not prove that they had not received the original correspondence.

I agree it could have complications, (Registered post) but at least it could be used to take in to account,

of when the debtor knew about enforcement.

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As far as the law is concerned the bailiff only have to show that a letter has been sent, it is assumed that it will be delivered to the correct address unless the debtor can prove to the contrary, on the bop.

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Thanks once again BA

 

My problem with this is, if it was not sent, or sent to the wrong address, and we know this can happen, the debtor would not have been able to seek an agreement.(which I thought was the idea behind the regs) then is hit with another charge(£235)

 

The debtor can not prove that they had not received the original correspondence.

 

I agree it could have complications, (Registered post) but at least it could be used to take in to account, of when the debtor knew about enforcement.

 

The regulations are as they are, and are not likely to be changed anytime soon but, that is not to say that I do not share your concerns about wrongly delivered correspondence, because I do.

 

However, debtors must also take a proportion of the blame and in particular, with parking related debts and speedings offences. The importance of updating DVLA records in a timely manner cannot be underestimated.

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Thanks BA

This is what I am trying to bring to light.

 

You can not prove some thing that has not happened.

it should be down too the EA company too prove it was sent.

It may cut there profit. but at the moment they just add the extra £235.

so have not lost, unless they do not enforce.

 

DB

 

I do not care if this is the law,

some times the people who make the law have an agenda,

I did respect your opinion, but your attitude stinks,

Sorry to be so blunt , but may be the reason not so many OP's is because of attitudes like yours

 

Chill pill DB

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The EA's office should really send the letter RD as proof is then there for all to see, as previously stated it is possible a wrong address may be written/typed or the postman delivers it wrong which could be often as in my mail...

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Seems to have his knickers in a wist about something. The law is important in as much as it described how the bailiff can behave i would have thought ?

Anyway, I am perfectly chilled. :)

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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No Problem

It is not me who is being condescending, to posters

 

I am open to opinion others are not

 

May be you should have directed your comment to the other poster not just to my self!!!!!

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The EA's office should really send the letter RD as proof is then there for all to see, as previously stated it is possible a wrong address may be written/typed or the postman delivers it wrong which could be often as in my mail...

 

Thing is MM that as per the legislation and the court case which i cant remember the name of. The bailiff does not have to prove the letter was dlivered , it is for the debtor to show that it was not.

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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I have read that too, But if the EA's spend just a few pennies on proper postage then this matter would dry up overnight. In that case it was decided that the poster had to prove the correct name and all details were correct in the 1st place. I too read this and is in my legal files somewhere on my system. If I can find it I will post a link or the hand down once/if found

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Yes that's the one , but that is easily proven just by showing the procedure which is used and with a few witness statements. It does not have to be proof positive of course. I have the case.

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Another argument is can the poster of the letter provide definite proof as to the contents of the said envelope? This is another area that can be contested.... Unless the poster of the letter has an authorised Notary witness and sign to that effect that the contents were actually what is claimed to have been sent.. Also that the said letter was handed to the postman? Then after that there is the issue of where the said letter goes and handled by whom! (chain of evidence so to speak) but it is given that the poster is honest and of good character and would not deceive the recipient)).

 

 

Once sight of the letter is lost there can not be a guarantee the letter did not end up at someone else's address due to negligence of the postman as this often happens.

 

 

Further case law is available on this topic and of interest...

 

 

Finally I have as well as others that have had correctly addressed letters go to the wrong address as BN has also stated...

 

 

My argument is in the details and not assumptions that something has been done correctly at ALL stages.. A mere observation....

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Suffice to say a TV program called 'Roadwars' where in this episode Police Officers on a s23 Warrant used the big red key to gain entry to a flat only to find that they were one whole block of flats out. The residents were shocked and the Police embarrassed because THEY got it wrong as all these blocks were identical.

 

 

Just adding comments here and factually of course. Mistakes happen and therefore miss-delivered mail is a constant issue is it not. See here for here for the embarrassing issues regarding the Royal Mail and incorrectly delivered mail. Including their response to this complaint... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3008073/Royal-Mail-sends-post-wrong-address-six-months.html

 

 

'Customer 'trying to see the funny side' after Royal Mail sends his post to the wrong address for six months – including their own letters of apology

 

  • Philip Ewington, 62, said his post had been regularly sent to wrong home
  • He said packages and letters were sent to another flat on the same road
  • Problem continued for six months and he complained to Royal Mail
  • But Royal Mail then sent their own letters of apology to wrong address'

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Thing is MM that as per the legislation and the court case which i cant remember the name of. The bailiff does not have to prove the letter was dlivered , it is for the debtor to show that it was not.

 

in fact, earlier today I starting drafting a new thread on this very important subject (which I should be able to get posted in the morning). The appeal case has made significant changes to the the 'interpretation' of Section 7 of the Interpretation Act.

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As said all the way back in Post 2 - they only need a Certificate of Posting. Much easier dealt with & free.

 

https://business.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/826

 

 

This is true, but, sorry for the but, its down to the person that finally delivers the letter if they have it to deliver. Proof of postage means it was accepted by the Royal Mail but does not mean it has been delivered. Please see my other argument on this matter...

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An argument to s7 is if the letter was sent recorded it is only held at the sorting office for a period of time before being redirected to the sender. Once again this opens a new can of worms does it not? The person due to receive the letter could be away on business or out of the country during the holding time, the letter is then returned and could still get lost.

 

 

Secondly not all postal delivery workers complete the signed for card correctly and or do not complete it at all. They could just post the letter regardless. I've even had this myself.

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The defining point is that if you carry out an audit on the EA's company, you will find a process in place to record the sending of letters, and also, upon delving into cases, you will see numerous responses to noe's thus proving they are actually sent. The companies not sending them will, and indeed are, being uncovered and dealt with quickly.

Recorded will never work as debtors will not sign for it.

All you will do by pushing this subject harder, will be to force the EA's to hand deliver this notice to the address which will undoubtedly double the current compliance stage fee. Government, cab, other charities and the bailiff companies themselves have agreed during consultation that the mere sending, via standard mail, is sufficient.

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