southwest trains - Forgot HM Forces Railcard

[Old-CodJA]

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Firstly I'm going to ask the OP to tell us what the date that is stamped in the centre of the Railcard reads please? (and there is good reason for asking)

 

The days when HMF Railcards were issued free of charge to serving personnel are long gone I'm afraid and for the last few years those entitled to hold them have had to pay a small fee. That of course puts the onus of responsibility to check and ensure you keep them up to date with the purchaser.

 

As others have said, the best thing you could have done at this early stage was to wait and see if you received a letter because there is always a chance that the inspector might not have put the report in, may have lost his notes, or, the company may have failed to complete the admin process and were unable to do so. That said, you have now contacted them and flagged up the issue.

 

You should not tell them anything that they don't already know, but should be truthful in stating the facts of what occurred.

 

Unfortunately, it is a generally slow process and any letter can take as much as 6 weeks at busy times.

 

If pursued, this is unlikely to be a Byelaw matter as a more serious charge can be alleged, but I'll reserve further comment on that until we get a response from the OP.

[Old-CodJA]

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Wait until you receive a letter, you will then have the unique case reference allocated to your file and will know what they allege.

 

OK, you held no valid Railcard for more than a year and claimed a discount to which you were not entitled.

 

 

Worst case scenario is that they could charge you with intent to avoid the correct fare,

 

 

but best thing is to wait until you get a letter and then come back and tell us what it says.

 

Once you know that you will be able to frame a response and we may be able to help you to seek an administrative settlement.

[Old-CodJA]

'intent to avoid the correct fare', is this within the 1889 regulation of railways act?

 

 

Yes, they could lay the charge by framing wording to explain such as; 'intent to avoid a fare, or part thereof by claiming a discount to which he was not entitled, contrary to Section 5.3.a of The Regulation of Railways Act [1889]'. It would be up to the prosecution to convince the Magistrates that you knew what you were doing.

 

 

one final thing

 

 

should i renew my rail card tomorrow

 

 

?or would this appear like more of a case where i have deliberately avoided renewing until i have been caught,

or should i just leave it, because i dont use the train that often.

 

do you feel would they appreciate a railcard renewal as good intent or suspicion?

 

 

It could appear to the prosecutor that you have only renewed because you were caught, but how would they know that you have renewed unless you tell them.

 

They are not in the slightest interested in what happened after you were reported and the Magistrates cannot take it into account as having any bearing on what happened before you travelled.

 

The Act is clear; it says 'having not previously paid his fare...' Your fare, as a person who did not hold a valid Railcard, was the undiscounted full fare.

 

If I were you I would renew anyway if you need to travel by train in future, but telling the company that you have done so has no relevance and they will not check that you have done so now.

 

The fact is that it will not make one iota of difference to the case against you because you did not have a valid Railcard when you claimed the discount that you were reported for.

 

I would try to stop worrying because it may be that if & when you get a letter, it may be possible to negotiate an administrative closure. No news is good news.

 

I know that like everyone else you will be keen to clear this up, but in my experience it is very rare for anyone to be able to hurry this process along. Depending on just how busy that office is it can take from a few days to several weeks.

 

If you're lucky you'll get a letter in a few days, if you're even luckier you'll not hear anything at all.

[Old-CodJA]

Can the following help my case, would these be classed as mitigating circumstances?

 

OK, sorry if anyone feels this is rude or patronising, but let's look at this with the applied 'observance of rules' that any military training will expect. This really is intended to help the OP

 

-First time offence

Makes no difference, the penalties prescribed by successful Court action are set down as the maximum for conviction of a first offence only and are likely to be more onerous for a second or subsequent conviction - it may be that a first offence isn't prosecuted, BUT that is entirely at the discretion of the rail company

 

-I genuinely didn’t realise that my railcard had expired.

Ignorance of a rule is not a defence in law, but may be put as mitigation

 

-I am in fact a currently serving member of the armed forces

This does not make any difference whatsoever, the law applies equally to all members of the public, HMF are not exempt in any way. In the eyes of the law it's just a job which the individual chose to take up.

 

-It’s used infrequently and I never check it. (ive only travelled twice in the past year)

Again, this makes no difference. It is always your responsibility to check that you hold a valid entitlement before claiming a concession. (Ever tried telling the RSM that your combat kit looks like a dog's toilet 'because I don't use it very often' ?)

 

-My railcard has been inspected on a previous occasion and nobody had brought it to my attention that it was out of date.

As I said in answer to the last point, it is your responsibility to make sure that it isn't out of date. If someone made a mistake previously and you got away with it, that doesn't mean you can continue to falsely claim entitlement.

 

-I didn’t realise that there were two parts the photo card and the actual railcard.

When you applied for the Railcard the conditions were made clear. In fact, where HMF Railcards are concerned the WO issuing makes sure that these are given with the first card. HMF Railcard conditions are probably explained to a holder more certainly than any other Railcard.

 

-I complied fully.

That is nothing less than expected of service personnel and in fact, the same applies to every person, including rail staff in such circumstances. Polite truthfulness and accuracy result in good reports, good communication and more likelihood of an administrative settlement.

 

-I wasn’t disrespectful.

I am pleased that is the case, if you had been disrespectful, swearing or abusive then the rail company representative would probably have reported evidence of a further charge of breach of Byelaw 6 [2005] and a report to the RMP might well have lead to a particularly salutary lesson.

 

 

I've had well over 30 years experience in revenue protection & prosecutions and have to say that definitely doesn't make anything I say any more valuable to you than any other contributor. You may choose to take whatever action or advice that you come to believe in, but I will say that I only offer suggestions based on my own experiences.

 

I frequently receive reports involving service personnel and often have officers ringing in from NCO's such as a Sergeant, maybe the WO1 who issued any Railcard through to Captain, Major etc. and they may be trying to either; 'badger and bluster' expecting that 'their man' will be 'let-off', or more frequently, once they are fully aware of the circumstances of the report, may ensure that due process is observed in one way or another..

 

Not too long ago in conversation with a Captain who wanted to know why his soldier had been reported and having been brought up to speed, he responded by saying 'I wonder why Pte......... thinks that trying to get an officer to 'shout' at a civilian was likely to make a difference?, Bloody fool.' I didn't feel that comment by me was necessary at all, however did feel that perhaps a lesson would certainly be learned.

 

Wait for the letter, you cannot make things worse by doing so.

[Old-CodJA]

as yet have still not recieved any correspondence from south west trains and the offence took place on the 28th of february.

 

 

Just a couple of points, firstly it is really important if you are corresponding with the TOC to be entirely accurate & truthful in any responses.

 

Your post, quoted here, states that the alleged offence occurred on 28th February and yet your first post in this thread is dated 21st February.

 

Secondly, when you were spoken to, did the inspector record your military ID number?

[Old-CodJA]

why did you ask about whether the inspector recorded my military number?

 

 

 

Because, if the TOC decide on taking action you can be traced by that if necessary and post can be forwarded accordingly.