Hasting only log 9 years max no claims discount

[tobyjugg2]

Being a new customer of Hastings direct

I was astonished to see that my many years of no claims discount (as submitted) had been reduced to 9 years by hastings

when i was attempting to check the new policy details.

 

It seems that whatever your actual NCD, if it is more than 9 years, Hastings directs' system only allows a maximum of 9 years

to be entered and that this reduction is done automatically without notice (other than showing the substituted amount buried in the policy details).

 

Both my prior insurance suppliers' systems had no issues with recording and reporting NCD in double figures.

 

I noticed this and complained, to be told that if I sent evidence of my NCD, they would note it and report it if I left them.....

 

Which leads me to assume that if someone does not notice this and raise a complaint, then anyone with more than 9 years NCD will lose it or potentially at least be put in an awkward position at next renewal time.

 

This has clearly been occurring for some years and disturbingly the following related thread seems to indicate that Hastings will do nothing when this is found at a later stage.

 

Referred Thread

217431 Problem with proof of NCD

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?217431-Problem-with-Proof-of-NCD-(no-claims-discount)

Edited February 10, 2015 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

lots of companies do this

 

 

I don't think it makes any odds to the cost of your ins.

 

 

dx

 

 

Have you noted for the forum members who the 'lots of companies do this' are? Please clarify who. It seems to me that many forum members would be interested in this information.

 

As I clearly stated, my two prior companies and also at least 1 if not more prior to those correctly noted and reported my ACTUAL NCD.

 

It possibly may 'make no difference' to those 'lots of companies' you refer, but to others it most likely will, else why do other companies have drop down boxes for selecting more than 9 years NCD? and I for one am not happy with having a company simply discarding years of earned NCD.

 

Also consider that it is false information, which the smallprint in many contracts site as invalidating any cover - no matter who's fault as the 'small print' places the onus on the customer to check the horrendously complex documents.

 

 

 

 

Addendum - I have just gone and done a quote on a comparison sitre, and the figures came out very different when 17 years is put in compared to 9 years NCD, so your premise regarding no cost impact would appear to be false.

 

addendum 2

Just also checked : On a direct Hastings application via their web site, the application only goes up to '9 years or more' for the NCD claimed, but on the comparison site I went to it wanted the full amount, and of course pretty much everything was passed over pre filled in to Hastings, so I clearly didn't note that. Nor would many others it seems to me.

Edited February 10, 2015 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the post, you have a valid point and I'd like to clarify a few bits to try and help if I may. While it's true that our insurers don't rate over 9 or accept NCB over that, it doesn't mean we will strip you of any additional years. We are more than happy to write a bespoke NCB letter showing more should you still be entitled to them when/if you leave us. All we need is acceptable proof of the amount you came to us with from your previous insurer. This should generally be written on letterhead and emailed to us.

 

Joe

 

Thank you for the response JOE (Jamie?), but you have missed or avoided the point. Please re-read my post if you are not simply avoiding the points.

 

The simple facts appear to be that If I had not seen it, and as confirmed by the report on the other thread, the NCD would be lost contrary to what you allude.

 

No one had asked me for proof of NCD by the time I queried this, which was a week after I had first ordered the insurance and after the policy had started, and you dont flag YOUR issue despite the customer entering the correct NCD and it seemingly being a long time issue.

 

It seems to clearly require the customer to find it and query it as your response also seems to confirm.

 

We aren't the lawyers who wrote these documents and although its easy to spot when you are looking for it specifically, for most the vast majority of smallprint is legal gobbldegook - mainly gibberish from the first sentence, and of course generally legitimate companies are (foolishly or not) taken at their word.

 

Lets never forget that the information has been entered correctly by the customer, which your system then apparently IGNORES.

 

 

Not being irrationally confrontational here Joe, it seems to me it could be quite an issue for good drivers when they leave you having almost fell foul of it myself. Undoubtedly many will leave after the first years goody sweeteners run out and if they didn't spot it, they are potentially going to lose out.

Perhaps won't affect your quotes for them, but would prevent them getting the best quotes from other suppliers to which years of extra NCD may be highly relevant.

 

Your statement that folk should read every word carefully to check for errors is of course true but one should also reasonably expect quality suppliers to capture accurately information given correctly and address such significant issues when caused by their systems.

Edited February 11, 2015 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Hi,

 

I'm sorry for the confusion regarding who is responding - Both myself and Jamie post here and use the one account for simplicity's sake so I could have made it clearer for you.

 

With regards to the NCB declaration, we are constantly striving to be transparent and upfront with all of our terms and as such lay our website out as clearly and simply as possible. When purchasing insurance cover, it is a legal requirement and a binding contract so we have to be as easy to understand as we can without bombarding the consumer with terms and facts. As you can imagine, it is a juggle to satisfy everyone's needs at once but we do feel that the NCB section is as open as we can get it. Applying a large discount to your premium does come with important terms so we make sure the crucial statements are bold and easily seen. Of course, all feedback is extremely useful to us as a learning tool whether bad or good so I thank you for your comments, they are most welcome.

 

Regards,

 

Joe

 

Thank you for that outstanding example of misdirecting, content lacking but wordy gibberish.

Edited February 11, 2015 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

I had exactly the same problem with Hastings a few years ago. They also stripped us of our no claims blaming their computer system.

It was only when I contacted the Insurance Ombudsman Hastings relented and eventually sent a manual letter with the correct no claims years on there but took quite some force from my side to get them to do it.

They tried every excuse in the book not to do it but changed their mind when I started a complaint through the Ombudsman. Never had a similar problem with any other insurance company before or after this though. Only Hastings computer keyboards have got a number range from 1 to 9 only.....

 

Yes, yours was the thread I referred in the first post. I've added the link now.

 

It really does make you doubt that the service will be there if, God forbid, you actually end up needing them after an accident doesn't it?

 

Well, the ink has barely dried and its looking more and more like Hastings is already lining itself up as only the second new entry this millennium for my very select 'never, ever, use again' bin along with 3, AA insurance and Npower.

 

With Hastings its more a number of niggles building from the outset raising doubts along with the blatant none addressing of the NCD issue raised here rather than the atrociously bad proven (dis)service with the other three, but Car insurance is all about catering for risk and reducing worry, not adding to them.

The vast competition makes taking any crap unnecessary as well as very undesirable.

 

(BT and Virgin Media would be in there too but sometimes the choices are more limited there - so they sit in the slightly less deep 'avoid unless absolutely necessary' bin - and lets face it, the bar is more limbo dancing than high jump in their industries)

Edited February 10, 2015 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

(added update to this thread as on reconsideration it seems better)

 

Its been almost a year since I took up Hastings Direct insurance and discovered they immediately turned my 17 years no claims discount into 9 years.

 

I complained and was told I would not lose any discount despite their systems only logging up to 9 years, and despite a number of reports here that customers who did not notice that Hastings had truncated their NCD DID lose their NCD above 9 years.

 

The renewal of my fully comp (which apparently isn't actually what I understand as fully comp with Hastings I have since discovered) with 17 years protected no claims at taking it out is being shown on the document as 9 years NCD.

 

Luckily I haven't had to make a claim and hence be sold of to some third party shyster company to inflate costs and require me to sign credit agreements for cover that should be included in a fully comp policy .....

 

Lets see what happens for me.

[tobyjugg2]

Hi,

 

Thank you for finding the time to write this.

When taking out a policy with us you're able to enter how many no claims years that you have to entitle you to a discount on the premium.

 

That is not really true, or at best very misleading.

A customer can put in anything you like in years of NCD on the comparison sites, and your site when passed the information will auto fill in upto 9 years.

A customer applying directly via your web site can ONLY put in UPTO 9 years.

 

Hi,

It's not that we cut your no claims discount years down to 9,

 

According to ex customers here and elsewhere that is precisely what you do doing. I am in the process of finding out what the case is for me.

 

 

 

most insurers ask if 9+ years not actual years,

 

Most insurers eh? As I already stated, Hastings is the first company I have ever been with that has not shown my actual years of no claims discount on the renewal whatever they give discounts for, and I change insurer almost every year when the premiums jump up (swiftcover for 2 years recently).

 

There is a HUGE difference between not getting higher discounts for more than 9 years which I accept a number of companies do, and not even registering or logging more than 9 years - where HD seem to be the first I have come across in over 40 years since first insured (Norich Union).

 

Let us know if your 50 years goes down to 9 when you try to get insurance elsewhere than HD, there are many companies that log and credit more than 9 years - a fact I have confirmed.

[tobyjugg2]

UPDATE

In response to my complaint regarding my January renewal only stating I have 9 years NC entitlement, they have 'replied' saying they will respond by late February, a month after my insurance expires.

 

So they are VERY CLEARLY not able to confirm my 18 years actual NC, which could cause all sorts of issues in trying to get correct discounts on insurance elsewhere,

 

What a bunch

 

 

The way this is going I'm considering trying to get this on one of the consumer TV programs. People should be warned. Any advice on doing this Caggers?

PM's perhaps so we don't clutter the thread and hide the facts of this issue.

[tobyjugg2]

toby

my prev post seems to have gone.

but this eg was sort of the info read http://www.moneysupermarket.com/car-insurance/blog/get-proof-of-your-no-claims-discount/

in the more recent related link within

'Well, if your new insurer only recognises a maximum of five years’ NCD, then you’ll only be able to have five years’ NCD on your next policy. So even if you had say, nine years’ NCD under the old policy, if your current insurer only recognises five years, you’ll instantly lose four years’ entitlement. And it gets worse if you make a claim and, as is usually the case, lose two years’ NCD. You’d then see your entitlement fall from nine years to just three, which would come as a nasty surprise if you were expecting to go into your next renewal armed with seven years’ NCD....'

 

ps, this was the other article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/insurance/motorinsurance/10881758/A-crash-course-in-bizarre-no-claims-discount-rules-on-car-insurance.html

 

 

Yes many seem to treat the renewal invite as your proof of NC, and previously with other companies mine has always stated my actual NC entitlement - until Hastings - and they have repeatedly stated in writing here and to my complaints that they dont truncate/lose/reduce.

Also Hastings have stated there that renewal notice is proof of entitlement - well mine says 9 years not 18.

 

It says a number of companies may truncate customers no claims entitlements, but Hastings is definitely doing it - the first company to do that in my experience.

 

The worrying part is that with the mylicence setup, insurers like Hastings will mess up peoples NC entitlements on official national databases.

[tobyjugg2]

thats one thing i meant. also some insurers there in the links go beyond 9 yrs in considering NCD. so, if a current insurer only provides 9 yrs proof (despite it being more), then that could disadvantage the customer who wants to go to an insurer that considers over 9 yrs. is that correct?

as the article says, there seems to be no uniformity.

 

I'm not certain Ford. I'm only certain HD has disappointed badly. Thank GOD I didn't have to make a claim with this 'outfit'.

I will certainly be ensuring any future insurer I go with has a drop down box that allows more than 10 years NC entitlement when the comparison sites throw them up as a potential for my money - and I wont bother even asking them given the lack of any worth of HD's 'assurances'.

 

Formal complaint made to HD and now to the ombudsman - and I will follow it through as far as necessary. I have taken HD's notification that they will not be even responding to this 11 month outstanding issue (from first raising this with them) in time for my NC entitlement to be used for getting a policy with another supplier as effectively their final response and failure to deliver what was stated.

AND I EVEN PAID THEM EXTRA FOR PROTECTED NC SIC

 

I have all the evidence including their email assurances when I first noticed it at the start, the ticket raised with them, including acknowledgment of receipt of the 17 years entitlement plus the HD staff statements here.

 

So if they think I can't or wont follow through the complaint, with evidence, and they can just throw away 9 years (50%) of my NC entitlement without a fight and as much bad press as I can manage - they are wrong.

 

I'll be looking for compensation for all this hassle and any losses too if this isnt resolved very quickly.

I pay for comprehensive insurance to reduce stress not deliver it and pay extra for protected NC to keep my NC not have them throw it away.

[tobyjugg2]

Update

Since their response to my request (via complaints process to ensure a record) for proof of actual NC entitlement that they would 'respond' to my complaint more than a month after my renewal date, 2 months after the issue was again raised,

and my reponse to them that I felt they had left me no option but to take it to the ombudsman (which I immediately did), they have sent me a PDF stating my 18 years entitlement, and with it have effectively stated that they find my complaints unfounded.

 

So given that

It should have been got right on initial complaint 11 months ago, particularly given the assurances given to me then,

 

It then should have been got right on renewal, particularly given that I had already raised the issue, but no - they just sent it out with 9 years.

 

It then should certainly have been immediately addressed on again raising the issue when the renewal was received, in which case even at that I would have been 'satisfied',

but NO - they actually stated that it wasn't going to get resolved in any meaningful timeframe

All this despite paying extra for protected no claims.

 

and it seemingly took informing them of escalation to the ombudsman to get what I was entitled to, despite being repeatedly assured by Hastings prior to the bomb dropping that there wouldn't be an issue.

 

HASTINGS DIRECT is definitely one to avoid in my opinion and experience at least for experienced drivers with high no claims who want a simple straightforward experience.

 

Particularly given that insurers are starting to update a national database with your NC entitlements (see Fords links above) so presumably Hastings will be automatically reducing any NC on a National DB.

Try getting that fixed.

 

[tobyjugg2]

Remember being offered the use of + over 9 years NCB = result no cheaper than most other so called quotes, as the premium started much higher, so it would seem a smoke screen by certain companies,/

 

Not true.

I tested on the comparison sites with 9 years and then 17 years NC as the only change and got more choice within my price barrier and cheaper quotes with 17 years,

 

Although you wont be able to benefit from this if you have been with HD for more than a year, as you almost certainly only have 9 years NC whatever you think you should have.

Join with 50 years NC and leave with 9. Especially painful if you also paid for protected no claims.

[tobyjugg2]

strange so I must of mis read total premium charge on quotes on a comparison site then -- NOT!

 

You must be doing or looking at something unrelated or not testing properly.

 

Some companies will give the same for 9 or 17 years

Some companies will give better for 17 years compared to 9

None I saw gave better for 9 years compared to 17

Some companies will only come in the top block with 17 years when they were far lower down the lists with 9

 

Try it.

Also try to confirm (insurance company acceptable evidence) that you have more than 9 years no claims entitlement. I can - now at least.

 

O - and dont just use the meercat site, it seems to show the ones that pay - other sites seem to give far more range and choice and significantly cheaper best buys for the same input.

Also ensure you deselect the 'only show ones we can transfer you today' default

 

 

If you dont want to actually put effort into disproving what you are claiming, just follow the links Ford gave.

In just the few examples there more than HALF consider more than the HD 9 years:

 

Swiftcover considers up to 20 years

Aviva considers up to 15 years

Admiral considers up to 15 years

Allianz considers up to 10 years

Saga is evidently unlimited

 

Churchill only do upto 9 years but say the same as HD did regarding more years and supplying a letter

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/insurance/motorinsurance/10881758/A-crash-course-in-bizarre-no-claims-discount-rules-on-car-insurance.html

[tobyjugg2]

I'm going to bite my tongue and give Hastings Direct a little cautious credit.

 

The renewal quote they sent me is better than getting a fresh quote from them on the comparison sites - which only swiftcover has done before.

I haven't made certain - but credit may be due to HD for a possible (and rarer than hen's teeth in the industry) customer renewal loyalty discount.

 

Privelege and Churchill are still cheaper though. Tomorrow I'll check their NC practices.

[tobyjugg2]

Ive been trying to get this done for a month without any success, I simply get mailed back the original... even though the first person that I spoke to said that this is entirely the correct thing to do

 

That is exactly what they said to me, despite them making assurances when I joined them and them receiving my proof of prior no claims entitlement.

 

I assume you provided them with prior proof of your no claims entitlement when you joined - as far as I am aware everyone has too or they simply cancel your insurance. So they have already had proof of your entitlement.

 

Raise a *formal complaint with them, in writing covered with a call -recorded of course - and dont accept any garbage about they will get back to you in 4 weeks or whatever and like me, you should quickly receive a letter confirming your actual entitlement.

 

Churchill are similar in this regard.

[tobyjugg2]

Update

Since their response to my request (via complaints process to ensure a record) for proof of actual NC entitlement that they would 'respond' to my complaint more than a month after my renewal date, 2 months after the issue was again raised,

and my reponse to them that I felt they had left me no option but to take it to the ombudsman (which I immediately did), they have sent me a PDF stating my 18 years entitlement, and with it have effectively stated that they find my complaints unfounded.

 

So given that

It should have been got right on initial complaint 11 months ago, particularly given the assurances given to me then,

 

It then should have been got right on renewal, particularly given that I had already raised the issue, but no - they just sent it out with 9 years.

 

It then should certainly have been immediately addressed on again raising the issue when the renewal was received, in which case even at that I would have been 'satisfied',

but NO - they actually stated that it wasn't going to get resolved in any meaningful timeframe

All this despite paying extra for protected no claims.

 

and it seemingly took informing them of escalation to the ombudsman to get what I was entitled to, despite being repeatedly assured by Hastings prior to the bomb dropping that there wouldn't be an issue.

 

HASTINGS DIRECT is definitely one to avoid in my opinion and experience at least for experienced drivers with high no claims who want a simple straightforward experience.

 

Particularly given that insurers are starting to update a national database with your NC entitlements (see Fords links above) so presumably Hastings will be automatically reducing any NC on a National DB.

Try getting that fixed.

 

 

 

just a reminder of what happened after I raised the formal complaint.

 

It seems it is what it takes.

 

- Churchill are similar but do actually note your larger entitlement on their systems (I checked) - you just have to nudge them out of default response.

[tobyjugg2]

Hi Harps, welcome to CAG.

 

 

You need to start a new thread of your own please, this one is three years old.

 

 

Best, HB

 

Hi Honeybee,

Long time no speekey

 

I think the new thread is a bad idea as :

 

1. It means people who have had prior experience wont get the notification of a new post - as I just did here

 

2. The experiences are scattered, rather than together and showing a companies all too common practices

 

 

Hope you are well and the world treating you kindly

 

TJ

[tobyjugg2]

Hi TJ, nice to see you.

 

We usually ask people to start a new thread rather than getting advice for the newbie mixed up with advice for the OP.

 

HB

 

 

yes, I understand thats the practice HB,

Just seems that keeping a topic together seems to have more wins than loses in my experience, and starting afresh loses a lot.

 

regards

TJ