Care parking - disabled bay

[Micb1905]

Hi all,

 

the gym I go shares it's car park with some local shops and a play school.

 

Upon arriving today the car park was jam packed as you would expect on a Saturday afternoon.

 

As usual the 10 disabled parking bays outside the gym were empty

and I wasn't prepared to go and find parking elsewhere in the rain then walk back up the ramp

as car park is on the top of the building.

 

I've parked in a private space designated for disabled badge holders only without displaying a valid blue badge.

 

As far as I'm aware disabled bays in private car parks are not enforceable under the blue badge scheme?

 

All help will be appreciated!

 

Kind regards

Michael

[dx100uk]

correct

 

all marking and bays are purely graffiti.

 

however you should appeal & go through POPLA etc

[dx100uk]

do exactly the same as your GF's last ticket

 

dx

[Micb1905]

hi, thanks for the quick replys.

 

i dont know if waiting out for a notice to keeper will be the right thing do, my car is a lease car so im not sure if it will come to me or go to the leasing company. anyone had any experience with this?

 

also could someone help me with the wording of my appeal and main points to include?

 

thanks.

[armadillo71]

You appeal the NTD as the driver then, to take the lease company out of the loop.

[Micb1905]

hi everyone.

 

 

just an update on this.

 

 

i appealed to care parking via post and expected that was the end of it as i haven't heard back from them.

 

today I've received a letter from the company i work for with a recharge.

 

Care have posted a charge to TCH leasing who automatically pay charges(they keep calling it a fine) without consulting the lease holder.

 

 

they then direct debit my company who i lease the car through via a salary sacrifice.

Then the company try to deduct it out of my wages.

 

where do i stand on this?

 

 

the way i see it Care have seen that the car is leased through tch and know that they automatically just pay up

so it was best for them to just ignore my letter and contact them directly.

 

thanks everyone!

[dx100uk]

the guys will know where

but theres a thread [atleast one]

on the ins/outs on this.

 

as there is no direct contract between the lease company and Care

i think there must be a clause stated in your lease agreement

and in your employment contract

 

 

dx

[Billy's mate]

Your company cannot deduct anything from your wages without your permission. The only exceptions are Court Orders.

[armadillo71]

I take it you have no proof that you sent your appeal?

 

You need to look at the detail in your contract with your employer and the leasing of the car.

It is all in how it is worded...

 

You and your girlfriend and parking eh!

[Micb1905]

It would seem we are a nightmare as a pair haha.

 

I've got the contract I've entered with work here, the part they have referred me to is as follows.

6 Other sums chargeable to you;

6.1 Under the agreement you authorise ----- group to deduct from your net salary any sums paid by us to the leasing company

iv - fines for road traffic offences and any administration charges levied by the leasing company (currently £25 per incident)

[ericsbrother]

it is neither a fine nor a road traffic offence.

Demand anything deducted back as a breach of contract.

[Micb1905]

That's what I was thinking. Can anyone else back this up?

I'm struggling to find somewhere that actually defines 'road traffic offence'

[dx100uk]

a road traffic offence

cant happen on private property

 

 

so that's that one out the window.

 

 

 

 

dx

[ericsbrother]

road traffic offence would be anything covered by the road traffic act, which excludes car parks.

[DragonFly1967]

a road traffic offence cant happen on private property

road traffic offence would be anything covered by the road traffic act, which excludes car parks.

 

I'm afraid I beg to differ.

 

The Road Traffic Act applies in car parks (private or otherwise), but not in marked parking bays.

 

It's all to do with the actual wording in the RTA. And is covered under the conditions of the public having access. "Roads or public place", a "road" is defined in the RTA 1988 as...

 

in relation to England and Wales, means any highway and any other road to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes, and

in relation to Scotland, means any road within the meaning of the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984 and any other way to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes,

 

The roads do not have to be adopted or maintained at public expense.

 

However, if there is a gate or barrier on the entrance to the car park, even if it's never closed, then it's no longer covered under the RTA.

 

 

In order for it to be proven that somewhere is a "Public Place" for the purposes of Road Traffic Act offences it must be shown by the prosecution that:

 

Those people who are admitted to the place in question are members of the public and are admitted as such, not as members of some special or particular class of the public (eg people belonging to an exclusive club i.e. lane leading to a Rugby Club and used only by them) or as a result of some special characteristic that is not shared by the public at large, and;

 

Those people are so admitted with the permission, express or implied, of the owner of the land in question. (DPP v Vivier [1991]RTR 205)

A car park situated within the business premises of a motor dealer (you could easily substitute a Supermarket here) for use by customers has been held to be a public place as members of the public using the car park did not cease to be members of the public and become a special class of persons merely because they used the car park as customers. [May v DPP [2005] EWHC 1280].

 

 

But I do agree that parking in a marked bay, in a private car park, would not be a Road Traffic Act offence in any circumstances.

[dx100uk]

yes sri my comment was rather wide.

 

 

dx

[ericsbrother]

I was being simplistic as in this case it doesnt apply. Yes, you can get done for all sorts of motoring offences in car parks.

[Micb1905]

Brilliant. Could someone help me with a rough idea of points I need to include in my letter to my company please?

 

Cheers

[ericsbrother]

It is very simple, that this claim is not a road traffic offence but a disputed claim as a civil tort and therefore not covered by the employment terms.

[Micb1905]

It is very simple, that this claim is not a road traffic offence but a disputed claim as a civil tort and therefore not covered by the employment terms.

 

Just had this reply from them

 

Hi Mike, thanks for your email.

 

 

I’ve discussed the matter with HR who advise that as the fine has been incurred and recharged to the organisation,

 

 

the organisation’s position is that the fine is rechargeable to the staff member the vehicle is leased to.

 

 

Therefore, the recharge will be processed in the next available pay run

– which will be November 2014, in full, unless you wish to elect to pay by instalment of up to 3 months.

 

 

Please advise by Friday 10 October if you wish to take this option.

 

I would also like to reiterate as per original letter, that ------- has no involvement whatsoever in the issuing of charges,

or the merits of individual cases in relation to motoring offences

and purely recovers any amounts recharged to it from the employee concerned.

 

Regards

[dx100uk]

you write back and say WHAT FINE?

 

 

please clarify WHERE on ANY PAPERWORK you have received from the Company that issued this speculative invoice, does it use the word 'FINE;

- it does NOT.

 

 

Therefore you cannot invoke any clause I sign to do with my contract with you.

 

 

dx

[Micb1905]

Asked the question and had this back.

 

Hi Mike, thanks for your email. The parking company call it a charge, TCH call it a fine. Should you wish to dispute the terminology, you need to take it up directly with them. We cannot get involved in the merits of individual cases.

 

Also, I can't offer any further assistance on the matter, and would request that should you require any further clarification on the organisation's position, please liaise directly with the HR team.

 

Regards

[dx100uk]

if TCH are calling it a fine then they need educating

and reporting

 

because that's where the issue has developed from

 

 

a 'fine' would be put through and deducted from your wages - quite rightly so.

 

 

but this is NOT A FINE.

 

 

if the same person got an invoice against you they would not pay it out your wages.

 

 

so someone is either telling porkies here or lying

[CrappoMan]

I would write to the HR dept, stating that if this money is deducted from your wages, you WILL take legal steps to recover this 'unlawful deduction from your wages'. Also c.c. this to their legal dept too.