Ingeus 'steps to work' programme for ESA WRAG claimant (MH)

[keiko78]

I didn't want to hijack the thread I started responding to (Which is where information can be found concerning my unfortunate experience with a HCP Physiotherapist.)

 

I'm opening this new thread to put my voice out there for others to see how the new Ingeus 'steps to work' programme doesn't seem to be working for people who are medically unfit.

 

So after the Physio said she couldn't work with me because I refused to sign the consent form for her to not only store my assessment but to provide my consent for a number of other things I went back to the Employment advisor who said nothing about my previous experience.

 

I wasn't asked to provide another assessment, or sign this form again.

 

http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x351/MaulIce/IMG_0002_zps274791c5.jpg

 

This time I was asked to provide my email address so that the Employment advisor can converse with me. Not sure if I have to provide it?

 

Also asked at my next interview, to just wait in the private room and then move to sit in the main office. I feel they are now trying to provoke me to see my reactions because I have numerous stress issues in busy places.

 

They don't have laptops in this private room so I think the Employment advisor wants me to go to the main office to access the desk computer but I don't know what for.

 

I said I didn't want to speak about anything personal in a public office, I was told I wouldn't be speaking about anything personal.

 

I also got the impression that the frequency of my appointments is going to increase after my next appointment which is a few weeks away.

[fletch70]

When I was transferred to the work program my job centre advisor told me not to do anything I felt uncomfortable with but always give a reason. If you suffer anxiety in a busy place you should tell them and politely decline.

I go once a week and take part in a small group of people with certain challenges who are on JSA. These are usually literacy issues. It really is amazing how some people treat the benefits system and frankly from my limited experience I would have sanctioned at least two of the group of 5

[Mr.P]

This time I was asked to provide my email address so that the Employment advisor can converse with me. Not sure if I have to provide it?

 

I said I didn't want to speak about anything personal in a public office, I was told I wouldn't be speaking about anything personal.

 

You are under no obligation to provide an email address to anyone - These people at Ingeus have a postal address for you, that is sufficient (assuming they can write a coherent letter...).

 

I had some meathead standing a few feet away from me in an A4e office one day. Stated quite clearly that I had nothing to say until such time as I had some privacy. So I sat there in silence until this goon departed (apparently, he was a "security" guard !). If you find yourself outside your comfort zone and have been refused a private room, just tell them that you have nothing to say.

[keiko78]

my job centre advisor told me not to do anything I felt uncomfortable with but always give a reason. If you suffer anxiety in a busy place you should tell them and politely decline.

 

Sounds like someone at the Jobcentre gave you some good advice (don't often hear of that) I wish mine were like that, thanks for passing it on

[fletch70]

I am afraid that the culture seems to be sanction sanction sanction so sometimes it is worthwhile to at least appear to play the game a little. For example , I have a universal job match account but I sit in the group and tell people not to tick the box that gives anyone permission to access it . There is nothing they can do about that

[essexmat]

There are no 'steps to work' as there are no jobs worth having - they are all part time, zero contract or self employed nonsense. As for UJM, my latest experience shows that the site needs to be monitored more closely or even better totally scrapped

[fletch70]

UJM is being scrapped as far as I know and has changed in a big way over the last few weeks. No longer are there lots of vacancies for self employed door to door catalogues and such like

 

Of course there are steps to work , preparing a C.V., interview techniques , covering letters , the list goes on. There are jobs out there worth doing that are not part time or zero hours . Once you have been on ESA for 12 months you qualify for the scheme where you can work for 12 months part time earning up to £99 PW with no impact on your benefits. That at least gives you the opportunity to see if you can handle some work

 

I do not like the government or the changes to the benefits system; I do not like the way employers are moving trying to get more and more out of workers when they already give far more than they did before but there are jobs to be had, not enough but there are some there

[will lliw]

Please keep us updated keiko and dont be scared to drop in to the other thread, i found your post very useful it seems your a few weeks ahead of me and im back at ingeus for another appointment to coerce me into signing this week but im not doing it, the HCP has left me voicemail on the house phone suggesting we do a telephone appointment but im not going there ethier as convenient as it sounds im sure there some legislation allowing them to aqiure consent verbally over the telephone and of course record it to but im not sure just dont trust it at all. In writing or not at all is the way!

 

Infact the reply by Mr P has inspired me to write a letter to ingeus....

 

Also i just found out my ingeus HCP was sacked from the NHS for gross misconduct.

 

Good luck!

 

Subd!

 

[Mr.P]

UJM is being scrapped as far as I know and has changed in a big way over the last few weeks. No longer are there lots of vacancies for self employed door to door catalogues and such like

 

Don't count on UJM being scrapped. The DWP and Monster recently published a joint letter (around March 26th), the final paragraph states:

The current contract between DWP and Monster runs until 2016, but the DWP - as with any large government procurement - will plan and consider all options for how it delivers the service in the future. But whatever that future is, Universal Jobmatch is here to stay.

 

It may be that we see an overhaul of the system - Monster has committed to making some changes to weed out bogus job ads (no doubt for a considerable fee). Come 2016, another company might take on the task of running the UJM, but don't hold your breath.

[keiko78]

You are under no obligation to provide an email address to anyone - These people at Ingeus have a postal address for you, that is sufficient (assuming they can write a coherent letter...).

 

I had some meathead standing a few feet away from me in an A4e office one day. Stated quite clearly that I had nothing to say until such time as I had some privacy. So I sat there in silence until this goon departed (apparently, he was a "security" guard !). If you find yourself outside your comfort zone and have been refused a private room, just tell them that you have nothing to say.

 

I like your attitude, I'm learning how to toughen up with these people!

I'm definitely going to decline to give my email address over.

 

To be honest if I'm out of my comfort zone and they refuse to let me continue with the private room I'll probably leave.

Edited May 27, 2014 by keiko78

[keiko78]

I am afraid that the culture seems to be sanction sanction sanction so sometimes it is worthwhile to at least appear to play the game a little.

 

Sanctioning is what I'm concerned about because you can't anticipate where its going to come from. Ingeus seem to be rather bullish and deceptive using sanctions to clobber people with.

[keiko78]

Of course there are steps to work , preparing a C.V., interview techniques , covering letters , the list goes on. . Once you have been on ESA for 12 months you qualify for the scheme where you can work for 12 months part time earning up to £99 PW with no impact on your benefits. That at least gives you the opportunity to see if you can handle some work

 

Ah I did wonder what would be considered as steps to work.

[keiko78]

Please keep us updated keiko and dont be scared to drop in to the other thread, i found your post very useful it seems your a few weeks ahead of me and im back at ingeus for another appointment to coerce me into signing this week but im not doing it, the HCP has left me voicemail on the house phone suggesting we do a telephone appointment but im not going there ethier as convenient as it sounds im sure there some legislation allowing them to aqiure consent verbally over the telephone and of course record it to but im not sure just dont trust it at all. In writing or not at all is the way!

 

Infact the reply by Mr P has inspired me to write a letter to ingeus....

 

Also i just found out my ingeus HCP was sacked from the NHS for gross misconduct.

 

Good luck!

 

Subd!

 

 

Thanks, I will drop by on your thread too as its good to learn from each others experiences.

 

Yeah the form is too loosely worded and only seems to benefit them. I wouldn't trust them over the phone either.

 

Jeez, checking out this HCP on the register has been a real eye opener for you, with gross misconduct in NHS and now employed by Ingeus.

[fletch70]

Will

 

When you refer to your HCP what do you mean?

Also how did you find out they were sacked for gross misconduct? That info should be confidential

[Chester6]

UJM is being overhauled and rewrote is my understanding

Sanctions do seem to be first resort as opposed to a last resort

[will lliw]

Will

 

When you refer to your HCP what do you mean?

Also how did you find out they were sacked for gross misconduct? That info should be confidential

 

Its is a loose term to aid a brief post when describing the HCP that Ingeus has allocated to present there program to me at the request of the DWP, of course she isnt mine lol. I have a health care team im happy with already.

 

As for the info on medical professionals it seems to be freely available on that there internet from the archives of the health and care professionals council. Maybe i got lucky when googling i just put name and reg number of the ingeus hcp ive been provided with and google did the rest by providing a pdf of a collection of case reports that happens to include this Ingeus HCP's situation with a lot of interesting details. Ask me in the other thread and i might post a link to the pdf because it contains months worth of reports from the HCPC regarding the panels of the Conduct and Competence Committee, Health Committee and Investigating Committee. Blame google lol.

 

http://www.hpc-uk.org/

[fletch70]

You misunderstand . What is HCP

To me HCP is a health care professional i.e the type that work for ATOS

 

Around here we use intraining , part of Ingeus and we have people who are supposed to help getting work and not your health issues .

 

Where is the other thread?

[will lliw]

Health Care Professional is somebody registered with a recognized medical body and so authorized to administer health care in the UK, they are bound to certain rules, conduct and procedures and can be struck off liek doctors for incompetance and misconduct. The one I have is regulated by http://www.hcpc-uk.org/

 

 

The people used to deliver the work programme are not HCP to my knowledge or atleast not employed in that capaity. They are just hyped up career advisors, trainers that sort of thing maybe even motivational experts or experts or practiniors of Neurolinguistics (NLP)

 

There is a thread i started in this section please ask me there as this is somebody else s thread or better still start your own thread.

 

Hope that helps

[fletch70]

Keiko

Sometimes (but not always) I think it is unfair the way we talk about and treat our WP advisors. Again , sometimes it is worth meeting in the middle.

You are on ESA?

What is the harm in giving them an email address

Play the game up to a certain point

If you only have to go in every few weeks is it the end of the world ?

 

As for the C.V, the one she wrote was IMHO pretty crap and certainly not one that suits me . My sister who is a professional career advisor within higher education helped me do a much better one. I have nodded and taken the C.V. I have filed it on my PC and if I were to apply for a job I would send out the CV i like.

I then apply for the odd job here and there , not because I am fit to do it but because it keeps them off my back.

 

When I see the attitude of some of the jobseekers I wonder how they have not all been sanctioned , for an example, one lad needed his birth certificate to register with an agency. Week after week he didn't try to get it so one week she provided the money for the bus AND the money for the certificate upfront. Two weeks later he still hadn't been

[will lliw]

Keiko

Sometimes (but not always) I think it is unfair the way we talk about and treat our WP advisors. Again , sometimes it is worth meeting in the middle.

You are on ESA?

What is the harm in giving them an email address

Play the game up to a certain point

If you only have to go in every few weeks is it the end of the world ?

 

As for the C.V, the one she wrote was IMHO pretty crap and certainly not one that suits me . My sister who is a professional career advisor within higher education helped me do a much better one. I have nodded and taken the C.V. I have filed it on my PC and if I were to apply for a job I would send out the CV i like.

I then apply for the odd job here and there , not because I am fit to do it but because it keeps them off my back.

 

When I see the attitude of some of the jobseekers I wonder how they have not all been sanctioned , for an example, one lad needed his birth certificate to register with an agency. Week after week he didn't try to get it so one week she provided the money for the bus AND the money for the certificate upfront. Two weeks later he still hadn't been

 

Do you work for the DWP?

 

The harm in giving out your private details to a system designed to frustrate and hound people needs no explanation, work agencys often data mine and sell that info on did you know that?

 

Going in every week for many is expensive when reliant on the state for our income, why should we be demanded to pay our bus fares like this out of money the law says we need to live on? The government has cut rural services and closed many JC down its unreasonable to expect a sick person to travel like this let alone have them spend the money they are suppose to live on!

 

Remeber the saying..... Give them an inch and they will take a mile.

[fletch70]

Well I for 1 claim my travel expenses back so am not out of pocket

If I remember correctly you have the option to allow the passing on of your info or not , but I was not saying give your primary email address . As for the rest of your private details , well they have them already don't they

 

I would agree that if you are unable to travel then asking you to attend is unfair

 

Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean we aren't all out to get you

[will lliw]

Well I for 1 claim my travel expenses back so am not out of pocket

If I remember correctly you have the option to allow the passing on of your info or not , but I was not saying give your primary email address . As for the rest of your private details , well they have them already don't they

 

I would agree that if you are unable to travel then asking you to attend is unfair

 

Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean we aren't all out to get you

 

Who's paranoid mate, i remind you the definition of Paranioa is "baseless or excessive suspicion of the motives of others".

 

then i remind you of the facts, DWP wants to "get" claimants, they are out to sanction claimants FACT this is not paranoia see below for the latest proof.

 

Stitching-up claimants is all part of the job, says Jobcentre insider

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/stitching-up-claimants-part-job-says-3537051

 

Jobcentre was set targets for benefit sanctions

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/21/jobcentre-set-targets-benefit-sanctions

 

 

Also regarding the travel cost dont you think its bit much asking a person on benefits having to stump up the money going without essentials so they can pay for the bus in advance, having to wait a week or more to get that money back! It may well be just a fiver a week but thats alot to somebody on £70 a week its money the law says claimants need to live on not spend on luxury items like bus journeys, paper and toner.

 

Did you know the Council of Europe recently told the The government that the basic benefit rate was way to low here?

 

Iain Duncan Smith says Council of Europe's criticism of UK benefits system is ‘lunacy’

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/iain-duncan-smith-says-council-of-europes-criticism-of-uk-benefits-system-is-lunacy-9094710.html

 

 

Lunacy says Ian Duncan Smith, who likes to eat £40 breakfats on exepnses at tax payer cost.

 

 

Iain Duncan Smith claimed £39 breakfast on expenses (that'd leave him £14 for the rest of the week)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/iain-duncan-smith-claimed-breakfast-1810086

[fletch70]

I am sorry but i thought everyone knew that joke about paranoid.

As for expenses i get them paid on the day in cash as do others

[will lliw]

I am sorry but i thought everyone knew that joke about paranoid.

As for expenses i get them paid on the day in cash as do others

 

You got me a good un there then ive only just started hanging out here again this week lol

 

The DWP no longer pay cash out it has to be a bank deposit, i was told that a few months ago when i handed my bus ticket over but i dont know if theres any truth in it gievn what you say, although i was paid ok but it took a week to appear in my bank..

[Mr.P]

The DWP no longer pay cash out it has to be a bank deposit, i was told that a few months ago when i handed my bus ticket over but i dont know if theres any truth in it gievn what you say, although i was paid ok but it took a week to appear in my bank..

 

Refunds of travel expenses appears to vary from one JCP office to another. Some have a petty cash tin and can make immediate refunds, others rely on BACS transfers - These may go through the same day or be combined and sent out in bulk (possibly with your benefit payment). For the offices that do BACS transfers, it doesn't help the claimants who live from one day to the next worrying about every single penny.

 

As for third party contractors such as Ingeus - They are required, as part of their contract with the DWP, to provide refunds promptly, in full, and without any conditionality attached (aside from producing a receipt or bus/train ticket).