pcn31 for 'entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited'

[amberr]

Hello,

 

I am new to the forum.

Received fine today in the same junction box.

 

If someone could help me with this I would be very grateful.

 

for me it is different because I was turning right and there is car in front of me waiting to turn right too. There are to photographs, one close up with number plates (time 18:05:12.463), second with my position and car in front of me ( time 18:05:12.588). By the time giving it doesn't even prove that I was in a standstill, am I wright? Also I was turning right and I though that I can stop in the box junction if turning right or this does not comply to me?

I don't no the exact steps of what happened in that situation, because I pass that junction every single day. Do you think I have reason not to pay?

[ploddertom]

own thread created

[amberr]

junction box is in High road chadwell heath

I didn't wanted to create new thread because thread that I posted this had photo of junction box

[amberr]

Hello, can someone help me on this?

[leigh04]

From viewing the .gov web site you are able to stop in a box junction if turning right and are stopped from continuing on from either on coming traffic or other cars are turning right.

[Pocket Nines]

Amberr.

what you say is basically correct.

But we need to understand why, oddly, a PCN has been issued.

 

1/. The pics are not their evidence; The video is; Have you viewed it?

 

2/. We don't know where this is or if you are even allowed to turn right at the junction.

 

3/. We haven't seen the PCN.

[liverbird37]

You will need to post a link to the exact location so others can advise correctly, as recommended by last poster. If it's the junction I'm thinking of then it's not going to be a straightforward if you are turning right then you are correct style answer.

 

 

Is it the area where there are two yellow boxes ? One on each side of the road ? There are a great many outcomes to this depending on what side of road you were on. Not a simple you are correct to this one.

[liverbird37]

There are two yellow boxes on chadwell heath high rd at the junction of chadwell heath lane, is that the box ? Just trying to help aid other members locate the box.

[Migster]

I think this is the junction and that they were presumably turning right after the box.

 

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=chadwell+heath+high+road&ll=51.570668,0.12969&spn=0.010896,0.027874&hnear=High+Rd+RM6+6AP,+United+Kingdom&gl=uk&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=51.57069,0.129795&panoid=XGBob7W5hJcwMP3VrHwVeQ&cbp=12,66.85,,0,7

[leigh04]

I think this is the junction and that they were presumably turning right after the box.

 

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=chadwell+heath+high+road&ll=51.570668,0.12969&spn=0.010896,0.027874&hnear=High+Rd+RM6+6AP,+United+Kingdom&gl=uk&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=51.57069,0.129795&panoid=XGBob7W5hJcwMP3VrHwVeQ&cbp=12,66.85,,0,7

 

If that is the junction then in my opinion the op should not have entered the box junction until right turn lane was clear to enter.

[green_and_mean]

The turn right exemption only applies if you are in the box whilst making the turn not 100m from the junction.

[amberr]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]50235[/ATTACH]

[amberr]

My concern is that pcn does not prove that was in a standstill.

[amberr]

I am not allowed to to post links yet, so cant show you street view.

 

Junction box is in chadwell heath, high road. There are ,two junction boxes, not far one from another. Two pubs on two coners, Barclay's bank.

[amberr]

I think this is the junction and that they were presumably turning right after the box.

 

]

 

Yes this is the junction

[Pocket Nines]

My concern is that pcn does not prove that was in a standstill.

How can a piece of paper show the difference between stationary and moving.

I've explained already; That is not their evidence.

[amberr]

This is my first penalty. could you please advise me on what shall I do next?

[BazzaS]

This is my first penalty. could you please advise me on what shall I do next?

 

With the benefit of the info posted on this thread:

a) do you feel you were not stopped in the box junction, or stopped but with a defence at law, or

b) do you accept you were stopped in the box junction without a defence (does the PCN say what to do on it, or on the back of it)?, or

c) are you unsure? (is there an option to view e.g. video footage, and have you viewed it)

 

a)? : say you wish it to go to court.

b)? : pay it (are there "points " with it? Photocopy both your photo card licence and its paper counterpart, before sending them both to DVLA , by a recorded delivery service),

c) View any footage, and if you are still unsure post back here with the details.

[amberr]

it does not say on the notice that I can view video. Checked it on-line and there are two same photographs as on the notice.

Is there always a video? If yes how can I view it?

[Pocket Nines]

With the benefit of the info posted on this thread:

a) do you feel you were not stopped in the box junction, or stopped but with a defence at law, or

b) do you accept you were stopped in the box junction without a defence (does the PCN say what to do on it, or on the back of it)?, or

c) are you unsure? (is there an option to view e.g. video footage, and have you viewed it)

 

a)? : say you wish it to go to court.

b)? : pay it (are there "points " with it? Photocopy both your photo card licence and its paper counterpart, before sending them both to DVLA , by a recorded delivery service),

c) View any footage, and if you are still unsure post back here with the details.

 

There is no "Court" involved. It's being enforced as a decriminalised contravention.

 

There are no points involved.

 

and (as an aside; there is never any point in paying for a 'Recorded' (signed for) service when sending documents to any organisation so large that they will NOT be signed for and RM will deliver anyway. You pay for something you don't get. Certificates of posting, as an alternative, are free at any Post Office).

 

Amberr. we haven't seen the PCN.

Either you can't post it - in which case go to a forum that allows it, or

You just haven't shown in it, in which case, do.

 

From what I've seen of the box and what you describe then you are in contravention. Your only chance would be a flaw in the PCN.

[amberr]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]50235[/ATTACH]

 

This is my pcn

[green_and_mean]

Your PCN gives the deadline as 'date of service' which is when you got it the law states it should be the date on the notice ie the 10th

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted

 

(8)A penalty charge notice under this section must—

(a)state—

 

(i)the grounds on which the council or, as the case may be, Transport for London believe that the penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle;

 

(ii)the amount of the penalty charge which is payable;

 

 

(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;

 

(iv)that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the notice, the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by the specified proportion;

 

(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;

 

(vi)the amount of the increased charge;

 

(vii)the address to which payment of the penalty charge must be sent; and

 

(viii)that the person on whom the notice is served may be entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to this Act; and

 

(b)specify the form in which any such representations are to be made.

[Pocket Nines]

Your PCN gives the deadline as 'date of service' which is when you got it the law states it should be the date on the notice ie the 10th

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted

 

(8)A penalty charge notice under this section must—

(a)state—

 

(i)the grounds on which the council or, as the case may be, Transport for London believe that the penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle;

 

(ii)the amount of the penalty charge which is payable;

 

 

(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;

 

(iv)that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the notice, the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by the specified proportion;

 

(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;

 

(vi)the amount of the increased charge;

 

(vii)the address to which payment of the penalty charge must be sent; and

 

(viii)that the person on whom the notice is served may be entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to this Act; and

 

(b)specify the form in which any such representations are to be made.

Indeed.

It should be winnable on that but what are the realistic chances of it being understood here? We'll see.

[BazzaS]

There is no "Court" involved. It's being enforced as a decriminalised contravention.

 

There are no points involved.

.

 

That part of my response was for if the OP felt they were not guilty. If they didn't pay the penalty on the basis of not having committed the alleged violation : where would it then be heard?

[green_and_mean]

That part of my response was for if the OP felt they were not guilty. If they didn't pay the penalty on the basis of not having committed the alleged violation : where would it then be heard?

 

Ir wouldn't be 'heard' they are already liable for the penalty if they don't pay then the County court would issue a warrant for recovery of the debt. If you mean how can they contest it they would go to adjudication at a tribunal not a Court.