Harlands Admin Fee

[slick132]

Hi Zain and welcome to CAG

 

Harlands admin fees are not enforceable as they are effectively unlawful penalties.

 

Unfortunately, Harlands can be very stubborn and may be unwilling to waive the admin fees. This leaves you with a dilemma - pay the fees or leave the gym.

 

The following could be sent to Harlands, if you agree the content :-

 

I refer to your demand for a £25 admin fee.

 

This is effectively a penalty and, as such, it is unlawful and not enforceable.

 

It does not matter whether the admin fees are contained in the gym's T&C's. They remain unlawful.

 

If you insist that I pay any admin fees, I will cancel my gym agreement direct with the gym immediately. The grounds for cancellation are breach of contract on your part, by trying to charge me fees that are unlawful, thereby failing to treat me fairly as a consumer.

 

If you agree to waive this £25 fee, I will be happy to remain a member at the gym. I will also do my best to see that future payments are made on time.

 

Please note, however, that I will also refuse to pay any other admin fees that you charge in the future.

 

I require your response within 14 days and will have to cancel the DD mandate if I do not hear from you by then.

 

[slick132]

Yes, certainly.

 

Under the DD Guarantee Scheme, you can tell your bank Harlands have taken money in excess of what you agreed to. They should refund the payment to you immediately. Sort this by phone or at a branch (take photo ID) on Monday.

 

You can then send Harlands the letter above but with an additional paragraph :-

 

...... T&C's. They remain unlawful.

 

In this connection, you chose to take the £25 admin charge in addition to the normal gym fee using the DD mandate. As I did not agree to the admin fee, the DD payment is being returned to my bank account.

 

If you insist that I pay any ......

 

Send the letter off to Harlands on Monday too.

 

[slick132]

Hi Zain,

 

I would use normal post but get a free Certificate of Posting from a PO when you send it.

 

If you give them your email address, they may flood you with demands.

 

[slick132]

Hi Zain,

 

PDF images work best when needed. See the guide at post #5 here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?415909-Blemain-problem&p=4463217&viewfull=1#post4463217

 

Or just tell us the gist of what they say.

 

Did you get the bank to refund the full DD from Harlands of £47.

 

[slick132]

Hi Zain,

 

Letter to Harlands :-

 

Dear sir or madam,

 

I refer to your letter of xxdate.

 

Despite the suggestion that your admin charges are "fully enforceable by UK Law", I have good reason to believe you are wrong. The admin charges are penalties and, as such, they are both unlawful and unenforceable.

 

As per my earlier letter, I hereby cancel my gym membership with immediate effect on the basis of your breach of contract, by trying to make me pay unlawful penalty charges.

 

My bank properly reclaimed the £47 DD that you took without my consent and this will not be reversed.

 

If you contact me further making any demands, either as Harlands or as CRS, the matter may be reported to The OFT as a formal complaint.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

[slick132]

Hi Zain,

 

As I am unsure who this company are and if I have to pay this debt.

 

You need to do more reading about this matter ! If you did, you would know that CRS are simply Harlands, wearing a different hat, working from the same office, pretending to be a separate DCA.

 

Hence my opinion that this is not a "debt" that you should pay, particularly as it's loaded with unlawful penalty charges.

 

I would simply ignore this letter.

 

;-)

[slick132]

Hi Zain,

 

Zinc ARE a separate outfit from Harlands/CRS.

 

As with any DCA, if they call you, you should ALWAYS refuse to talk to them and insist they put anything they need to say in writing. Then hang up !!

 

Have Zinc written to you yet. If so, what have they said.

 

If they haven't written, do nothing more until they do.

 

Also, keep a written log of all calls from Harlands, CRS or Zinc, just in case you need to make a formal complaint in the future.

 

[slick132]

Hi Zain,

 

As Harlands have not replied properly to your letter in post #10 above, you are right to ignore demands from Harlands and CRS.

 

On this occasion, reply to Zinc saying :-

 

I refer to your email of xxdate.

 

This matter is in dispute with Harlands/CRS and they had no right to pass the matter to Zinc.

 

If you contact me again, you will be included in my Formal Complaint to Trading Standards for breach of OFT Debt Collection Guidelines.

 

[slick132]

Hi Zain,

 

Do you know if Harlands run the admin for the gym you now want to rejoin ?

 

What gym is this ?

 

The only problem in paying up front by cash or by debit card is that you may not get any refund in the event of loss of job, relocation, illness or injury. You need to check the gym's T&C's about this carefully and DO NOT just take the word of gym staff as they tend to tell you whatever gets you to sign up and pay.

 

[slick132]

Hi Zain,

 

I suggest you contact the new gym and simply ask them exactly who runs the admin side of things because you want to avoid Harlands due to your past experience.

 

It may be MCA that deal with Fitness for Life but please check.

 

If Harlands is not involved, I would definitely use a DD membership, unless the one-off payment up front gets you a better and affordable deal.

 

[slick132]

Hi Zain,

 

So you've spoken to the gym and they say that Harlands DO handle their admin.

 

Odd, cos that's not what one of their gyms told me 2 days back when I called to enquire - they said MCA ran their admin. Maybe you should double check if you're concerned.

 

In any event, a new DD set up for the new gym will NOT enable Harlands to take anything other than what is due each month per the new agreement.

 

So I would be inclined to start a new m/ship on a monthly DD. If Harlands raise any objection based on the previous dispute, go for the Cash Up Front option.

 

[slick132]

Hi Zain,

 

I looked up Fitness for Life and called a gym in Essex who said it was MCA that dealt with the admin. If you were told differently for your gym, you should trust what they say.

 

But my advice above remains - try and sign up with the new gym on a monthly DD and see how you get on.

 

Harlands CAN'T take any money for the old DD using a new DD that you sign for a different gym. If they did, you can very easily get it refunded using the DD Guarantee Scheme with your bank.

 

[slick132]

Hi Zain and thanks for the explanation about you trying to re-join the same gym !!

 

Why not try a different approach and write to Harlands saying :-

 

I refer to the email of 6th October received from CRS.

 

The issue about missed payments was caused by the loss of my debit card. After that, you added admin charges which I was not willing to pay. You then took a DD payment which included admin charges so I recalled that payment under the DD Guarantee Scheme.

 

As a way forward, I am willing to commit to a new 12 month membership agreement at the xxxxxx gym. For my part, I will try to ensure that funds are in place to cover the DD payments, thereby avoiding the issue of your admin charges. However, I need your assurance that you will only take payments for the new membership and not use the new DD mandate to cover any older payments.

 

If you are willing to accept my offer and confirm this in writing, I will go into the gym and sign up for the new 12 month term as soon as possible.

 

What do you think ?

[slick132]

Hi Zain,

 

I said before, I'd avoid the year's fee up-front because you'd probably get nothing back in the event of a need to cancel early.

 

Let us know what they say ..............

 

[slick132]

Hi Zain,

 

Why on earth are you calling CRS?? Stay OFF the phone and keep everything in writing only.

 

It looks like Harlands are as good at dealing with simple letters as they are at managing your DD payments.

 

I also find it funny that Harland's Mr Rob Avery is telling you that Harlands no longer deal with this and they've handed the matter over to CRS. That'll be dealt with at the next desk then, with Rob wearing a different hat !!

 

If Harlands don't even have the decency to reply to your reasonable letter in post #27, I would now reply to Harlands saying :-

 

Dear Harlands/CRS,

 

I refer to your letter of 7th November and regret that you haven't bothered to reply to the specific points, raised in my letter of 7th October.

 

Instead, you pretend Harlands have "redirected" my letter to CRS when, in fact, the same staff work for Harlands and CRS.

 

I will not be taken for a fool and will ignore further communications from you.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Harlands would do so much better if they stopped treating folk like fools, and instead treated them with a little respect.