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Roofer did shoddy work and has now filed court claim against me


Kinger122
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Kinger 122.

I'm a Builder with 30 odd years experience.

I have "Watched" this thread for sometime but not commented.

Can you advise : What make of tiles and the type ? I suspect they are a "Pan tile" such as Marley

I will explain why in a bit !

F16

 

PS. I can see the "Pitch" was designed at 15 degree.

What degree pitch have you got ?

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Kinger122.

Ok so the Pitch is 13 degrees, and the tiles are suitable down to 10 degrees, but you may find that you have to increase the "Overlap" of the tile the more you decrease the pitch of the roof.

So find out the manufactures fitting instructions and check the "Overlap" is correct.

Velux can NOT be fitted under 15 degrees. (exception is the flat roof unit).

Fitting them on a roof pitch under 15 degrees will nullify their guarantee.

 

The judge has said that your roofer has to give you an insurance backed guarantee, after he has completed the work and then you pay him.

If your roofer doesn't tell the insurance co about the Pitch error" he will get insurance..... But it will be worthless because he has fitted materials not to manufactures spec.

If the roofer does tell the insurer; He either won't get insurance or the policy will be "loaded". The former being more likely.

 

When the roofer gives you the "Certificate" pay NOTHING until you have it in writing from the insurer that they are aware of the "pitch error" and it is accepted

with "No exclusions"

I think you will find they "cancel the policy".That then means you pay nothing to the roofer.

Take care.

F16

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Yes .It is a lump sum, and it may have an excess and or exclusions. ..

But those will be in the "Policy" not on the "certificate". If the roofer fails to inform the insurer of the errors and you make a claim they will reject it when they

discover the errors.

 

The problem with a low pitched roof is. A/ High winds driving the rain under the tiles. B/ Capillary action.

 

You need to get the roof tile "Spec. and fitting instructions" Not only the tile "Overlap" question ,but the lead flashing at the extensions abutment to the house may have to be increased as well.

If you look at the verge at each end of the extension you will be able to measure the "overlap" and likewise the lead flashing.

 

Do the drawings show "vent tiles and soffit vents ?

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Hi Kinger122. I think Mike Hawk said wait for the court papers.

 

I've looked back on the thread but can only find a "Sketch", not a set of "Working Plans".

The "Vent tiles" will look like a "Mushroom" sticking out of a tile. Hence the nickname in the trade "Mushroom vent"

At the front edge of the roof (the eves) where the guttering is. The guttering is fitted to the "fascia board"

There is then a soffit board which is between the wall and the fascia.

This must have vents fitted to allow air up past the timbers and out of the "mushrooms"

No air circulation and the roof will "Sweat" and condensation will run down the under side of the Sarking felt.

 

IMHO. I can't see how this "roofer" is going to get this insured.

A lot of these type of insurance co.want to send out their own inspectors at various "Stages" to make sure the job is completed to a good standard.

 

How the hell can anyone see if the correct fixings (or indeed enough of them) were used on the rafters ?

Are there enough Plate ties ?....... The list is endless

That's why he won't get a proper insurance cert.

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Kinger122, Yes that would be good. Load up some of the lead flashing where the extension joins the house as well.

It's difficult to advise you without enough info.

the more Photos the better.

 

Is the ceiling "Vaulted" or "Flat" ?

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The sketch was all I was provided with, along with a written contract.

 

What ???

Who carried out the calculations for "Load" to specify the size and grade of timbers used ?

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Kinger122. Did the architect do a set of drawings ?

 

There is NO vents !! In my opinion there should be 4 tile vents (mushrooms) and a continuous soffit vent.

 

There also needs to be a 50mm air flow gap between the ceiling insulation and the sarking felt (tilers sheet)

Check with the Building Inspector.

 

Looking at the photos I suspect the Velux windows may be set too low.

There are tiles not sitting flat around the veluxes .

 

The lead flashing along the main wall of the house. Can you get a "close up" of the overlap of one piece of lead to the next ?

One of the edge (verge) would be handy as well.

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Yes the architect provided drawings for every aspect of my extension. I will try and get a closeup of the lead in the morning. If not then the afternoon. I am not sure if I mentioned this but the roof was leaking where the lead flashing meets the wall of the house in the far corner (the part where the house comes out slightly). Then all of a sudden the leaking stopped in that place. Nothing was changed and I have no idea why the leak stopped.

 

The building inspector initially said vents needed to be there but said nothing when the roof was done without them.

 

Does the architects drawing show vents ?

 

The building inspector is there to look after you (the customer) and to make sure the building conforms to current Building Regs !!!

What is he "playing at" ?

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I am not sure if I mentioned this but the roof was leaking where the lead flashing meets the wall of the house in the far corner (the part where the house comes out slightly). Then all of a sudden the leaking stopped in that place. Nothing was changed and I have no idea why the leak stopped.

 

Might have "Stopped" at the moment but that's because the rain has not been driven onto the short bit of wall.

Look closely at the lead work.....

 

The "Internal corner" is a "butt joint " with no over lap cover in the corner.

The "Stepped" flashing should continue round the corner and along the back wall.

Then the back wall lead goes over the top to give the cover.

 

Have you rung Velux to see if they provide a site visit service ?

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On another point.

The plaster board used on the ceiling. Was it "Vapour barrier (foil backed) or standard stuff ?

 

Yes the gable ends is correct.

Can you give the measurement of the over lap of one tile to the next above it ?

 

Cheers

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I'm interested to know what those plans say.

 

Reading a bit between the "lines".

It sounds like you got various "Trades" to do each stage. Ground workers for foundations, bricklayers, "sparky", plumber, plasterer etc.

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Hi kinger122

So each piece of lead overlaps the next by 100mm minimum.

Did you get the tile overlap ?

What does the drawings say about "Roof ventilation" ?

 

The only way to achieve 15 degrees is to lower the brickwork on the front and side elevations.

You can't raise the roof at the abutment to the house..... It would "Foul" the windows.

 

Yes I'm surprised he has not "blamed" the Bricklayer. That said he should have checked it would work by fixing the "Wall plate" to the main house

and the first rafter. Check the degree of pitch and point out the error.

 

You mentioned in a post above that you "think you would have won the case if you had got an expert report".

I think you are right but the fact remains that I can't see how any insurance co . is going to accept this roof with all the faults.

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Use a proprietary eaves vent system comprising 10mm wide continuous strip ventilator secured to the outer edge of the 9mm supalux soffit board, running the entire length of the roof eaves..

 

Not fitted. .... Told you that would be the case.

Ring the architect and question tile vents. there is little point letting air in at the soffit vent if it has no where to go.

You don't achieve air circulation !

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I also found this link regarding the tiles. It talks about verge tiles. Should they have been used?

 

http://www.forticrete.co.uk/media/336839/centurion_fixing.jpg

 

Yes verge tiles should have been used.

I've got a feeling the tiling should be "staggered joints" as you would get in brickwork.

IE. On brickwork the first course would be complete bricks, but the next course would start with a half brick to create the "bond" (staggered affect).

 

If you look at the photos ALL the joints run in straight lines.

I will read the fitting instructions.

 

Well done for finding this and exactly why I suggested you check the fitting instructions !!!

 

This is going to get very interesting..... Because if that is correct the roof will have to be "Stripped".

 

Don't understand why architect speced. "Rockwool quilt and not Celotex sheet but that is his call.

Did he quote 50mm air gap between tilers sheet and insulation ?

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I am almost certain the tile vents are needed. I will probably have to wait till monday to ring the architect. So what does this all mean then? The building inspector cannot pass the roof can he?

 

Unfortunately at court the roofer knew more than me about what a roof should be, and lied saying the roof was fantastic and that he was going to put it on his website. The judge didnt have a clue how to do a roof so took everything he was saying as truth.

 

No the Building Inspector can't "Pass" it. Unless you "agree" to the 100 errors..... I don't think so !!!!

 

"Use it on his web site"...... Are you sure..

 

Only if Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder are the only viewers.

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Kinger122

 

This post is VERY important confirm it is read.

 

Before vents are fitted I think you will need to alter the boiler flue by having a "Plume Kit " fitted due to the position of the vents.

I'm not a Gas Safe Engineer.

 

When the boiler was fitted there were no vents. So get the boiler fitter back and check.

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Yes the flue will have to be extended due to poss. carbon monoxide ingress.

 

This is when you need the input of the "Legal Crew".

 

My view is the Judge said he had to get insurance.... and he can't as discussed so YOU don't have to pay.

 

You could point out all the faults and get him to put them right.

BUT you paid once for materials and the cost of new materials is his problem.

 

So this "Clown" might "think" he has won...... But has he ?????

 

See what the "Legal Crew" advise.

Regards

F16

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I've read the "ventilation" part for the roof.

 

There are 2 options.

 

1 : Eves (gable ) vents.

OR

2: Tile Vents (mushrooms)

 

Of which you have neither.......Nor the "Continuous soffit vent".

Collecting full fitting instructions on Monday from local supplier to find out about verge tiles.

Enjoy the weekend

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Kinger122

 

Sorry to bother you on Sunday !

I need some more photos:

1. The corner you said was leaking. Lift up the lead on back wall and take photo so I can see the corner under the back wall lead

and where the "stepped" lead flashing finishes. (Push lead back into place after photos).

 

2. Shots of the sides and top of 1 of the velux windows (pref the far right looking from the garden).

I need the shots taken at 90 degrees to the roof to view the gap between the tiles and the Velux.

So I can see the side and top flashings.

 

3. What "model of Velux was fitted ? (ie GGL)

 

At this stage all I'm going to say is....." I think I know where he has gone wrong" !!!!!

 

Google "Velux window installation instructions".....

It's on a "you tube".... That's it enough "Clues"..... Oh alright 1 more: My post on the Velux windows "looking low" will assist !

 

Don't end up with the "Don King hair do and the Al Jolson face"; trying to figure it out ! I will explain Monday.

F16

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Kinger 122

Cheers for the photos .

 

The photo with "tiles removed". Is the "up stand" on the flashing kit crushed ? Looks like it to me.

 

I think I can see "Disc cutter" damage on the bottom flashing.

 

What model of Velux ?

And the same for the flashing kit ?

 

In a previous post you said.

"270mm rockwool insulation quilt to be laid over and between ceiling joists".

That can't be right.

"Between" Yes. Not "Over". There has to be a 50mm (Minimum) air flow gap between "Tilers sheet" and insulation.

 

Did the architect do a sectional drawing of this detail ?

What size are the ceiling joists ?

 

Sorry about all the questions !!! :oops:

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For the insulation that was for a flat ceiling. The architect originally told me I could not have a vaulted ceiling, but then the inspector said it was possible and a vaulted ceiling was done instead. That is why it refers to the insulation going over I believe.

 

There is a sectional drawing but it is for the flat ceiling. Is this insulation a big problem? I feel like I've been misled by the inspector and the roofer.

 

That explains that one !!! I knew that was not correct for vaulted ceiling.

 

Is that "Up stand" crushed ?

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Yes everything seems to be damaged. I questioned the workers when they were doing the roof that should they not be cutting the tiles on the floor not on the actual roof but they carried on doing it like that and said that was how it was done. There is cutter damage everywhere, even on the velux window where it has bounced off the tiles and hit the window..

 

You should "Mark up" each cut and cut else where; Not in situ.

If you do cut in situ. This is the result.

 

The insulation is only a "problem" if there is no 50mm air flow gap.

This also explains why I said "Rockwool ??? I would have used Celotex sheet.... but that's his call"

If the "roofer " (and I use that term very loosely) was of any use he should have advised you of a "Better option/ product.

 

Check your invoice for the product code for the flashing kit.

I will see what kit my supplier suggests tomorrow when I pick up the tile fitting instructions and velux fitting instructions

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