IB to ESA. No Medical But Placed in WRAG .

[SickNotWorkshy]

I have a serious autoimmune condition that was diagnosed in 1993, I carried on working until 1999 until my employers understandably terminated my contract due to ill health... I had spent more time off ill in those years than at work. I tried to temp as did not want to be living on benefit but in the end I could not even manage that so applied for Incapacity Benefit and have been on it ever since. I get the higher age allowance. In the intervening years whilst not working my condition has deteriorated and I have developed other conditions. Each time DWP did a reassessment I always had enough points.

 

In May I got the dreaded call that I was to be reassessed for ESA and it would take 10 weeks, well I sat waiting to be called for a medical but no calls/ letters came, then finally I got a telephone call this afternoon from DWP. The lady told me that I would be transferred onto ESA at my current higher rate (is that correct ?) but I had been placed in the WRAG and the transfer would happen on 19 October. How can they put me in this group ? I had supporting evidence of how serious my illness was and how incapable I was, I had a supporting letter from my GP and a record of the 36 medical appts I had in one year, details of how the illness effected me, I thought they at least would want to take a look at me before making this decision. Every part of my body is effected and it takes an exercise of military style precision to get me ready to leave the house.

 

I told her I would be appealing so she told me that everything would be sent in the post and I only had a month from TODAY to appeal ! How can I do that when they had not even posted my letter and she even told me that they don't use First Class post. She then moved on to tell me that I now would be expected to attend an interview at my Job Centre, I told her that would be difficult as I had recently had a blackout and collapsed in the street and had broken bones and sprained ankles on BOTH legs so was having great difficulty in walking, she did put that on my notes, so you never know they may postpone my call up for a while. She also mentioned that my case would be reviewed by another assessor prior to appeal and could be overturned then with any further information I provided.

 

My questions are, firstly the information that she gave me, is it correct as I have heard that they can give out incorrect information ? What further information can I give them as I thought I had covered all bases ? Will my payments remain at the higher rate ? And what chance do I have of having it overturned without going to the full appeal ?

 

 

I have read so many posts, everyone's experience/ circumstances are different, but I am hoping someone has had a similar experience as mine and any help/ advice would be appreciated as I am conscious of the clock ticking, one month and I have nothing to work with.

 

Many thanks for taking the time to read this.

[swinginapig]

Yes they can place you into a Group without an Atos assessment. I am presuming you feel you should have been placed into the Support Group hence why you wish to appeal the Wrag decision. Firstly for an appeal you need to fill in a GL24 form, I think you can download these, yes you have 1 month to get the form back to DWP, also you need to ask DWP for a statement of reasons why they have placed you into the Wrag Group without an assessment, you then have your ammunition for your appeal submission. Dont wait for this to come it could take them several weeks to send it to you, just send off the GL24 form explaining why you wish to appeal, your appeal has then been lodged, everything else can be sent off at a later date including any more supporting evidence you may have. Before your appeal is sent to a Tribunal, DWP will look at your claim again to see if it can be overturned in your favour, this process can take many weeks, if they cannot overturn in your favour, you will receive a Tribunal Pack and your appeal will be sent to the Tribunal. Your payments will remain the same as when you was receiving Incapacity Benefit. Hope this helps and good luck.

[mr_mastiff]

Hi welcome to C.A.G, You are not the only one to be placed into the W.R.A.G group without examination. I appealed and was placed into the support group. Would your G.P give you a Fitnote stating that you are unfit to attend the JPC interview.

 

When I appealed I used exactly the same information that I had used in my ESA50, But I broke each part of my day down into little bits and gave information on how long it took me to get out of bed, what adaptations I had in the house to help me wash use stairs etc. I told them what medications I was taking and their side effects. How did I dress who helped me.

 

Look at the descriptors in the document below and appeal on the ones you meet the criteria of.

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@disabled/documents/digitalasset/dg_177366.pdf

 

Did anyone help you fill out the ESA50

[Nystagmite]

You can also write a letter instead of using the GL24. But you have to state in the letter that you're appeal. IE, "I would like to appeal the ESA decision ".

[worried33]

as far as I know they should only be fast tracking people without a medical to the support group.

 

If someone is deemed on that fast track process to not qualify for the SG or to 'possibly;' qualify but more evidence needed then they should be called in for a medical, so in my view its wrong and I am not surprised anyone who appeals such a decision gets a reconsideration because of that.

[mr_mastiff]

as far as I know they should only be fast tracking people without a medical to the support group.

 

If someone is deemed on that fast track process to not qualify for the SG or to 'possibly;' qualify but more evidence needed then they should be called in for a medical, so in my view its wrong and I am not surprised anyone who appeals such a decision gets a reconsideration because of that.

 

 

If you read around the posts there are a number of people who have been placed in WRAG without medicals, I know a number of people who meet support group criteria who were placed into WRAG, All of which have now won their appeals. These people all included medical reports from consultants, physiotherapists and occupational therapists etc in their original ESA50. It would suggest that Atos is either incompetent to make an assessment from a medical reports or there are other political/financial factors at play .

[worried33]

If you read around the posts there are a number of people who have been placed in WRAG without medicals, I know a number of people who meet support group criteria who were placed into WRAG, All of which have now won their appeals. These people all included medical reports from consultants, physiotherapists and occupational therapists etc in their original ESA50. It would suggest that Atos is either incompetent to make an assessment from a medical reports or there are other political/financial factors at play .

 

I know, but I think it shouldnt be happening.

[Invalidation]

I was moved from IB to ESA without a medical and without an ESA50 and any evidence !! All the HCP and DM had was the ESA113 from the Doctor and that only had 4 small lines of pretty insignificant writing on it.

I'm now waiting for my appeal for the Support Group

[mr_mastiff]

I was moved from IB to ESA without a medical and without an ESA50 and any evidence !! All the HCP and DM had was the ESA113 from the Doctor and that only had 4 small lines of pretty insignificant writing on it.

I'm now waiting for my appeal for the Support Group

 

Everytime I think that ATOS/DWP cannot get any worse in their management of cases a story like yours comes along and proves me wrong! Good luck on the appeal.

[Nystagmite]

as far as I know they should only be fast tracking people without a medical to the support group.

 

Do you have a link to that, or is that purely your opinion?

[samsmummy]

I have a serious autoimmune condition that was diagnosed in 1993, I carried on working until 1999 until my employers understandably terminated my contract due to ill health... I had spent more time off ill in those years than at work. I tried to temp as did not want to be living on benefit but in the end I could not even manage that so applied for Incapacity Benefit and have been on it ever since. I get the higher age allowance. In the intervening years whilst not working my condition has deteriorated and I have developed other conditions. Each time DWP did a reassessment I always had enough points.

 

In May I got the dreaded call that I was to be reassessed for ESA and it would take 10 weeks, well I sat waiting to be called for a medical but no calls/ letters came, then finally I got a telephone call this afternoon from DWP. The lady told me that I would be transferred onto ESA at my current higher rate (is that correct ?) but I had been placed in the WRAG and the transfer would happen on 19 October. How can they put me in this group ? I had supporting evidence of how serious my illness was and how incapable I was, I had a supporting letter from my GP and a record of the 36 medical appts I had in one year, details of how the illness effected me, I thought they at least would want to take a look at me before making this decision. Every part of my body is effected and it takes an exercise of military style precision to get me ready to leave the house.

 

I told her I would be appealing so she told me that everything would be sent in the post and I only had a month from TODAY to appeal ! How can I do that when they had not even posted my letter and she even told me that they don't use First Class post. She then moved on to tell me that I now would be expected to attend an interview at my Job Centre, I told her that would be difficult as I had recently had a blackout and collapsed in the street and had broken bones and sprained ankles on BOTH legs so was having great difficulty in walking, she did put that on my notes, so you never know they may postpone my call up for a while. She also mentioned that my case would be reviewed by another assessor prior to appeal and could be overturned then with any further information I provided.

 

My questions are, firstly the information that she gave me, is it correct as I have heard that they can give out incorrect information ? What further information can I give them as I thought I had covered all bases ? Will my payments remain at the higher rate ? And what chance do I have of having it overturned without going to the full appeal ?

 

 

I have read so many posts, everyone's experience/ circumstances are different, but I am hoping someone has had a similar experience as mine and any help/ advice would be appreciated as I am conscious of the clock ticking, one month and I have nothing to work with.

 

Many thanks for taking the time to read this.

 

I am in the same situation, been off from paid work for over 23 years, and like you no medical and put into WRAG. I have just had my first work focused interview, a very nice lady at the Jobcentre told me that most of the long term IB claimants have been put straight into WRAG she said that although they are accepting that you have problems and that you are not capable of work at this time, she thinks that they are just trying to give the easy option and that some will just walk away after their 365 days of payment, getting rid of thousands. The others who appeal are those who need help and who are willing to go through the rigmarol of an appeal.

 

Like you I am going to soilder on, I have sent my appeal papers in and am now waiting. Good luck with yours.

[worried33]

Do you have a link to that, or is that purely your opinion?

 

no I dont.

 

But I have 2 reasons for the post.

 

I have read articles which explain the process of how people can get ESA without a face to face assessment, those articles state the purpose is only for the support group and the reasons it happens. (one reason to stop severely ill people from the trauma of the face to face).

 

The 2nd is basic common sense, someone in the WRAG is basically turned down for SG and there is a chance its a wrong decision, so its a bit of a weak case for the DWP to be denying people without a face to face.

 

Of course the DWP appear to be very inconsistent in what they do, and it seems also experiences seem to differ based on the locality as well.

[SickNotWorkshy]

Part of me is glad that I was not asked to attend an ATOS medical, when I read what can happen. My problem has been that my health has slowly deteriorated over time, so medical reports of my recent visits refer to the present problem, so individually do not seem that severe until you add up all of the conditions. I asked for my new consultant to prepare me a letter outlining my whole condition, but she refused. GP has written me 2 letters commenting on how ill I am, but they seemed to ignore it.

 

I did ask CAB for help, but they are so overstretched that my appointment turned into a 20 minute explanation of the system and he told me to appeal on the fact that I cannot walk for more than 50 metres. Which is true as I recently collapsed in the street and had a right sprained ankle and broken toes on the other foot and two months on I still cannot walk.

 

I am now dreading the phone call to attend the Job Centre. The winter is particularly hard for me, I don't drive and live alone so really do not know how I will get there.

 

One thing CAB did tell me was that the Tribunals should be a lot quicker now as most regions have been allocated extra judges. I think he quoted that the Midlands had an extra 80! When you think how much they must be paying them, you realise what a farce this whole process is. The rich are getting richer on this gravy train, whilst the sick are being starved into submission. And the tax payer seems to be oblivious to it all.

[Invalidation]

One thing CAB did tell me was that the Tribunals should be a lot quicker now as most regions have been allocated extra judges. I think he quoted that the Midlands had an extra 80! When you think how much they must be paying them, you realise what a farce this whole process is. The rich are getting richer on this gravy train, whilst the sick are being starved into submission. And the tax payer seems to be oblivious to it all.

 

I was told in July that my appeal would be at least 14-16 weeks away

[SickNotWorkshy]

I sent my GL24 back on 21 October by Special Delivery expecting not to have a response until after Christmas.

 

This morning I received a telephone call and I could have been knocked over by a feather when he identified himself as someone from DWP and informed me that upon reconsideration I was to be placed into the Support Group. It took them just ONE week to sort this out.

[mr_mastiff]

Well Done, you beat my record by two days. It does make you question the system especially when the information that I included in my appeal was exactly the same as was written on my ESA50!

[Nystagmite]

he told me to appeal on the fact that I cannot walk for more than 50 metres.

 

You can't get ESA on the basis of being unable to walk.

[SickNotWorkshy]

You can't get ESA on the basis of being unable to walk.

 

CAB told me you needed to get the qualifying number of points and then you needed to score the top marks in one of the further sections, one of them being you cannot walk more than 50 metres without having to stop due to severe discomfort. I already had the necessary points as otherwise I would not have been put into WRAG.

 

 

 

My GP did provide me with a further letter ( she felt sorry for me and did not charge the customary £25).

I also had letters from family and friends describing how they have to help me and I wrote a 2 page long account on how my illness affects me on a daily basis.

 

My new consultant told me she was not allowed to get involved, though she prepared the last report in a lot more detail which I submitted.

[worried33]

Part of me is glad that I was not asked to attend an ATOS medical, when I read what can happen. My problem has been that my health has slowly deteriorated over time, so medical reports of my recent visits refer to the present problem, so individually do not seem that severe until you add up all of the conditions. I asked for my new consultant to prepare me a letter outlining my whole condition, but she refused. GP has written me 2 letters commenting on how ill I am, but they seemed to ignore it.

 

I did ask CAB for help, but they are so overstretched that my appointment turned into a 20 minute explanation of the system and he told me to appeal on the fact that I cannot walk for more than 50 metres. Which is true as I recently collapsed in the street and had a right sprained ankle and broken toes on the other foot and two months on I still cannot walk.

 

I am now dreading the phone call to attend the Job Centre. The winter is particularly hard for me, I don't drive and live alone so really do not know how I will get there.

 

One thing CAB did tell me was that the Tribunals should be a lot quicker now as most regions have been allocated extra judges. I think he quoted that the Midlands had an extra 80! When you think how much they must be paying them, you realise what a farce this whole process is. The rich are getting richer on this gravy train, whilst the sick are being starved into submission. And the tax payer seems to be oblivious to it all.

 

I am in the midlands and had to wait nearly 2 years for my current tribunal.

[worried33]

You can't get ESA on the basis of being unable to walk.

 

actually you can.

 

unable to mobilise 50 meters even gets you SG.

 

There is exceptions to been assessed for wheelchair etc.

[Nystagmite]

Mobilising isn't the same as walking. They will expect you to use a wheelchair or other aids, unless your condition means you can't use those aids without pain and /or discomfort.

[worried33]

Mobilising isn't the same as walking. They will expect you to use a wheelchair or other aids, unless your condition means you can't use those aids without pain and /or discomfort.

 

Did you read what I said, is exceptions meaning if exceptions apply that rule doesnt apply.

 

I got SG for unable to walk and I got no wheelchair. It was one of the 2 SG descriptors I got.

 

If a medical professional has stated you should not use a wheelchair then ATOS should exclude any wheelchair test regarding mobility. That can be as simple as any treatment given includes been told that one should not use a wheelchair as its not appropriate for the condition.

[stigofthedump]

no I dont.

 

But I have 2 reasons for the post.

 

I have read articles which explain the process of how people can get ESA without a face to face assessment, those articles state the purpose is only for the support group and the reasons it happens. (one reason to stop severely ill people from the trauma of the face to face).

 

The 2nd is basic common sense, someone in the WRAG is basically turned down for SG and there is a chance its a wrong decision, so its a bit of a weak case for the DWP to be denying people without a face to face.

 

Of course the DWP appear to be very inconsistent in what they do, and it seems also experiences seem to differ based on the locality as well.

 

I received my DWP letter today - straight into support group and very surprised as ESA only submitted on 26 September so only just over a 4 week wait and Glasgow ATOS are notorious so Ive been told. My sister who in my opinion is in a worse position is in her 18th week of waiting and she is in Eastbourne. I am still speechless and think there is a catch. I had heard that extra staff were being drafted in to help ATOS but don't know if this is the case for Glasgow - seems strange since Glasgow City Council only debated yesterday to allow ATOS to remain as sponsors for Commonwealth Games following public outcry

[Invalidation]

I received my DWP letter today - straight into support group and very surprised as ESA only submitted on 26 September so only just over a 4 week wait and Glasgow ATOS are notorious so Ive been told. My sister who in my opinion is in a worse position is in her 18th week of waiting and she is in Eastbourne. I am still speechless and think there is a catch. I had heard that extra staff were being drafted in to help ATOS but don't know if this is the case for Glasgow - seems strange since Glasgow City Council only debated yesterday to allow ATOS to remain as sponsors for Commonwealth Games following public outcry

 

I am down south, not far from your sister and my wait, from sending in my ESA50 to decision was 7 Months, and even they they made a serious mistake which is going to come back to haunt them

[stigofthedump]

I am down south, not far from your sister and my wait, from sending in my ESA50 to decision was 7 Months, and even they they made a serious mistake which is going to come back to haunt them

 

I hope you go further than just haunt them - never give up the fight