Fixed Penalty Notice for "Unpaid" Fare

[cythis]

I hope this forum can help me as I came across it during a google search on what to do in this scenario.

 

Let me explain what has happened:

 

I caught a train from a station that had no ticket machine, that I have used many times before paying the conductor when he comes down the train. On this day, his machine decided it wanted to decline my card and I was given an Unpaid Fare Notice, and told to take this to the nearest ticket office to pay off the ticket within 14 days.

 

Later the same day, when I was at my destination, I proceeded to the ticket office and handed over the notice in exchange for a return ticket for the same price from where I boarded the train to where I got off. I thought that was done with as he took away the paper notice I was given.

 

About 2 weeks later I was sent a letter in the post saying they had not received my payment and wanted to charge me £40 on top of the current fee. [EDIT] I'd done exactly what the conductor said and paid the exact charge written on the notice to a member off rail staff, and ignored the letter.

 

Now I've received a further letter, asking for £80 + the rail fair, and that I will be taken to a Magistrates Court and charged £150 in fees if they do not receive this.

 

Being unemployed and in debt I cannot afford and quite frankly refuse to pay that much money for a ticket worth £8.90. I even have the train tickets I was given by me.

 

I am unsure what to do as of now, whether I should contact a lawyer and defend myself in the court, or I should write to the rail company, although this has caused me undue stress and inconvenience with these 'threats' when I owe them no money. I don't understand why I should be fined for this or even taken to court, as I have followed exactly what the conductor said, and paid off my debt.

 

Please help!

 

Thank you, Sean.

[timbo58]

Obviously if the ticket staff on the train had no working machine AND the station you joined at had no working machines either or other facilities AND there was no other station en route that had no ticket issuing facilities AND you proffered an acceptable means of payment to the TOCs staff (remember ALL of these must be fulfilled to cover this) then a UPFN was not appropriately issued and the advice you were given was wrong. The UPFN is administered by a private company (Upss last time I worked for a TOC) and they chase and pursue 'debts' owed as they add costs at every 14 days IME.

 

The problem as I see it is that although you have tickets purchased at your first opportunity (good) you'd have to prove the Tocs staff advised you incorrectly that the UPFN would be cancelled upon purchase of the tickets you now hold.

 

Best to write to the TOC (and copy in the UPSS) stating you had been wrongly advised and attach the tickets (keeping a copy) as proof.

At least the UPFN should have the conductors name/number on them to prove who gave you incorrect advice, hopefully if this account is accurate the train conductor will confirm your account.

[Old-CodJA]

Obviously if the ticket staff on the train had no working machine AND the station you joined at had no working machines either or other facilities AND there was no other station en route that had no ticket issuing facilities AND you proffered an acceptable means of payment to the TOCs staff (remember ALL of these must be fulfilled to cover this) then a UPFN was not appropriately issued and the advice you were given was wrong. The UPFN is administered by a private company (Upss last time I worked for a TOC) and they chase and pursue 'debts' owed as they add costs at every 14 days IME.

 

The problem as I see it is that although you have tickets purchased at your first opportunity (good) you'd have to prove the Tocs staff advised you incorrectly that the UPFN would be cancelled upon purchase of the tickets you now hold.

 

Best to write to the TOC (and copy in the UPSS) stating you had been wrongly advised and attach the tickets (keeping a copy) as proof.

At least the UPFN should have the conductors name/number on them to prove who gave you incorrect advice, hopefully if this account is accurate the train conductor will confirm your account.

 

The memory is playing little tricks timbo58, depending on which Rail Company the OP was travelling with it will be RPSS (Revenue Protection Support Services in Portsmouth) or IRCAS (Independent Revenue Collection and Support in Petersfield).

 

If there was a working booking office or machine at the station at which the OP joined the train this is a straightforward National Railway Byelaw 18.1 prosecution.

 

My guess is that it is a Northern Rail station from the information given in the original post.

 

This quote from the OP leaves me a little confused as to what action was actually taken. Was the UPFN actually paid in full ?

 

On this day, his machine decided it wanted to decline my card and I was given an Unpaid Fare Notice, and told to take this to the nearest ticket office to pay off the ticket within 14 days.

 

Later the same day, when I was at my destination, I proceeded to the ticket office and handed over the notice in exchange for a return ticket for the same price from where I boarded the train to where I got off. I thought that was done with as he took away the paper notice I was given.

 

 

 

About 2 weeks later I was sent a letter in the post saying they had not received my payment and wanted to charge me £40 on top of the current fee. [EDIT] I'd done exactly what the conductor said and paid the exact charge written on the notice to a member off rail staff, and ignored the letter.

 

This suggests that the UPFN was not paid and a fare remains outstanding.

 

Now I've received a further letter, asking for £80 + the rail fair, and that I will be taken to a Magistrates Court and charged £150 in fees if they do not receive this.

 

Unless the outstanding fare was paid the TOC or their agents are authorised to proceed in these cases.

 

quite frankly refuse to pay that much money for a ticket worth £8.90.

 

A point blank refusal to pay, if there is evidence to show that a fare is due is never a good idea.

 

In my experience, these letters almost always make clear that the traveller does have the choice to not pay and defend their position when the matter is forwarded for issue of a Summons to a Court hearing.

[timbo58]

Ah yes (blush) my memory fails me!

Since I was only aware of RPSS I meant them of course.

I agree - the op looks like they received a upfn and haven't paid it ( regardless of the ticket they subsequently purchased) and its been referred back to the tic for prosecution?

Or possibly it's RPSS (or equivalent co) chasing it with additional costs due to non payment?

(Although I would assume they would have had a few letters in the meantime about this outstanding debt?).

 

The op would have to prove there were no ticket facilities at all for their journey and the upfn was incorrectly issued therefore?

[timbo58]

Ah yes (blush) my memory fails me!

Since I was only aware of RPSS I meant them of course.

I agree - the op looks like they received a upfn and haven't paid it ( regardless of the ticket they subsequently purchased) and its been referred back to the tic for prosecution?

Or possibly it's RPSS (or equivalent co) chasing it with additional costs due to non payment?

(Although I would assume they would have had a few letters in the meantime about this outstanding debt?).

 

The op would have to prove there were no ticket facilities at all for their journey and the upfn was incorrectly issued therefore?

 

I agree - a fatal error to ever ignore any outstanding debt owed on railway fares, after all its not a private parking 'fine'!

[stifle]

To me it appears the OP paid the UPFN at a station, but the station did not tell RPSS that it was paid. But that could be an inaccurate reading.

 

Note that a UPFN is simply a bill for an unpaid fare, and one can be issued even if the station at which the passenger joined the train was unstaffed without ticket purchasing facilities.