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    • Post in Suing a parcel delivery company when you don't have a direct contract with them – third-party rights Copy of judgment available

      BankFodder posted a post in a topic,

      We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

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      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.
Latest activity

My 17 yr old son and gym membership ! LA fitness ** RESOLVED/ CANCELLED**

Dad67

By Dad67
in Gyms and Health Clubs

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Dad67

Dad67

Posted
Posted

Dear all,

I have recently been informed that my 17 year old Son had a one month trial membership at LA Fitness.

He went with a friend in January 2013 and was informed that he could have a months taster but had to pay up front which he did.

 

I have now been informed by my rather worried son that he has received a letter from ARC Europe for £539:00 which includes a £40 administration fee to be paid within 10 days or it may be passed to there solicitors.

 

I have called ARC today but the response was non helpful. My son turned 18 in April 2013

 

Please advise Dad67 (worried dad)

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citizenB

citizenB

Posted
Posted

Will send an S.O.S to someone who will be happy to help. It will probably be a little later on today.

 

I rather suspect this is a speculative invoice.

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PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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BRIGADIER2JCS

BRIGADIER2JCS

Posted
Posted

Hi worried Dad, Has he entered into a regulated consumer credit agreement for the subscription? If so the contract is void.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

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Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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BankFodder

BankFodder

Posted
Posted

Welcome to the world of Gym Clubs. A cowboy world which seems to make a disproportionate amount of their money through disproportionate cancellation fees.

 

The contract for the trial period was made while your son was a minor so it is unenforceable. Has your son done anything during his majority to indicate that he was interested in being involved in a contract with this Gym?

 

Even if he was, once had decided to cancel and he had given notice to them the £539 would be disproportionate and would be unenforceable.

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Dad67

Dad67

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thank you for your replies.. There was no credit agreement as he believed it to be be just for the month as described by the staff at the Gym. So he only paid for the month by card and for this reason alone he did not believe he had to give any notice as he only went for two weeks then did not return!

Thank you

Worried Dad.

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BRIGADIER2JCS

BRIGADIER2JCS

Posted
Posted
Thank you for your replies.. There was no credit agreement as he believed it to be be just for the month as described by the staff at the Gym. So he only paid for the month by card and for this reason alone he did not believe he had to give any notice as he only went for two weeks then did not return!

Thank you

Worried Dad.

Was he given any documents at all, terms and conditions maybe?

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

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Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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BRIGADIER2JCS

BRIGADIER2JCS

Posted
Posted
Was he given any documents at all, terms and conditions maybe?

 

Ok as Citizen B stated earlier this is a speculative invoice thus should be rejected.

SO send the following: Amend tense if you are writing for him.

 

The Compliance Manager

ARC Europe:

 

 

Ref: use theirs.

 

Sir/ Madam,

 

I refer to a speculative invoice for £ 539.00 in relation to an alleged gym contract with LA Fitness, please note I do not acknowledge ant debt to ARC Europe or any company it may claim to represent.

 

Please be aware of the following salient points.

 

1. I was 17 years of age when I was offered a trial period of one month with LA Fitness, therefor unable to enter into any binding agreement.

2. At no time was I shown or supplied with any documentation regarding on going membership or liability for further fees or charges.

3. All liability is denied and no payment will be made.

4. LA Fitness acted in a misleading and manifestly unfair manner.

 

For clarification and the avoidance of any misunderstanding, NO CONTRACT EXISTS and NO PAYMENT WILL BE MADE IN REGARD TO THIS SPECULATIVE INVOICE.

The Conduct of ARC Europe and LA Fitness will reported to the appropriate regulatory bodies.

 

I suggest that ARC Europe closes the file on this matter, removes all data relating to me from its records and confirm that it has done so.

 

If this spurious account has been reported to any credit reference agency by any party to the spurious account such entries must be removed immediately, written confirmation of compliance is required.

 

This is my final response.

 

Recorded/signed for post is best.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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Dad67

Dad67

Posted
  • Author
Posted

For ever in your debt...Letter will be sent tomorrow...

I shall get myself a Paypal account and follow the link.

 

Thank you all

Not as worried Dad.

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citizenB

citizenB

Posted
Posted

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?271693-Fitness-First-help-for-a-17-year-old./page3

 

Seems as though this is not the first 17 year old to have fallen into this trap. There is another story in the link above with advice that you could also read.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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BRIGADIER2JCS

BRIGADIER2JCS

Posted
Posted
For ever in your debt...Letter will be sent tomorrow...

I shall get myself a Paypal account and follow the link.

 

Thank you all

Not as worried Dad.

 

Please let us know the outcome any problems come back.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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slick132

slick132

Posted
Posted

Hi Dad and welcome to CAG

 

They really are Chancers at ARC but the age issue is an absolute defence in this matter.

 

ARC may come back suggesting they have doc'ts that YS signed confirming his agreement to the year's m/ship but that changes nothing.

 

They're on a hiding to nothing here and we'll help you see them off.

 

As said above, if they pursue the matter, you must make a formal complaint to the OFT and to your local TS office.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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  • 2 weeks later...
BRIGADIER2JCS

BRIGADIER2JCS

Posted
Posted
Hi all,

Its been 10 days since the letter was posted and as yet we have not received a word.. I will keep you posted.

 

Perhaps the member of staff with the skill to read is on holiday:madgrin:

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slick132

slick132

Posted
Posted

Hi Dad,

 

10 days is way too early for this to be over and keep us updated.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

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  • 2 weeks later...
Dad67

Dad67

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Hello again,

My Son received a letter from Arc Europe today.

We are disappointed to note that you have not cleared your balance following our previous letter. On the instruction of our client, we can now take steps to prepare a county court claim against you for recovery of the above debt.

 

+ To avoid action pay today also that he may incur further charges such as solicitors and court fees.

No mention of the letter we had sent ?

 

Dad

Edited by Dad67
Missed word
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BankFodder

BankFodder

Posted
Posted

Fine, don't worry.

If they begin a claim against you then we will help you defend.

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BRIGADIER2JCS

BRIGADIER2JCS

Posted
Posted

So no response to the drafted letter Dad, send it again by recorded /signed for delivery this is typical ARC behaviour.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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BRIGADIER2JCS

BRIGADIER2JCS

Posted
Posted
Will do.

Did track the first one and it was delivered the next day.

 

Thanks again

Dad

Looks like the ''reader'' is Janet and John book two maybe:madgrin:

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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slick132

slick132

Posted
Posted

Hi Dad,

 

If you already have confirmation that ARC rec'd the first letter, you need not use RM Signed For Delivery again. This time get a free Certificate of Posting from the PO when you send the letters.

 

You should perhaps have written to LAF in the first instance as ARC have no discretion or authority to decide what should be pursued, and what should not.

 

No Matter. Just write to LAF's Head Office, and send a copy to ARC, saying :-

 

Dear sir or madam,

 

I refer to a further demand from ARC Europe of xxdate referring to court proceedings being started.

 

I assume this was sent in error bearing in mind the content of my letter of xxdate. For ease of reference, I enclose a copy of that letter.

 

I require your written confirmation that no further demands will be sent by LAF or by ARC. If any demand is received, the matter will be reported to The OFT without further notice.

 

If ARC take court action, it will be vigorously defended.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Dad67

 

cc ARC Europe

 

The threat of court action is almost certainly an empty one but you'll have our support if that happened.

 

Keep us informed. :wink:

We could do with some help from you

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  • 2 weeks later...
Dad67

Dad67

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Dear All,

I think it could be great news?

We sent proof off his age. Namely a copy of his birth certificate

My Son received a letter today from L.A fitness confirming his membership has been cancelled with immediate effect and apologise for any inconvenience.

Thank you all very much for your help although when I now look back they were on a hiding to nothing, BUT .. Without your support and guidance I would have been a nervous wreck.

 

AS PROMISED MY SON WILL SEND A DONATION BY PAYPAL SO YOUR WORK CAN CARRY ON.

 

THANK YOU AGAIN

DAD67

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citizenB

citizenB

Posted
Posted

This is excellent news - I imagine you are very relieved indeed :)

 

I will amend your thread title to reflect this.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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slick132

slick132

Posted
Posted

Hi Dad and thanks for the update.

 

A good result for you :whoo:

 

Thanks also in anticipation of the donation which will help ensure we're here to help others when they need it.

 

:-D

We could do with some help from you

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EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

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