Housing Benefit, Council Tax Support

[odds]

I mentioned this earlier in someone elses thread so I don't know if it was picked up on so maybe someone might like to comment on this strange analogy by my local council.

 

According to the latest award letter from my Local Authority they have stated that for my

Housing Benefit the MINIMUM I need to live on is £305.

Council Tax Support the MINIMUM I need to live on is £278

 

I know that in their wisdom they have decided not to include certain elements of benefits, therefore making your 'excess' income higher and so you pay more Council Tax but I think someone has seriously messed up here, or is it just me being pedantic.

How on earth can you have 2 different MINIMUM amounts to live on depending on which bill you are paying ?

 

I have tried getting an explanation from the 'Help Line' but the best I can get is "it's because of the changes in Central Government" .... I gave up after 10 minutes trying to explain that you can only have one minimum amount, cos if you have 2 different amounts only one can be a minimum.

 

I then noticed that on my award letter they said my Weekly Council Tax Liability was £18.11, so having got a bee in my bonnet I checked my Council Tax Bill, which is £944.42 for the period 01/04/2013 to 31/03/2014 (52 weeks).

For the record according to the Benefits department and going off my Weekly Council Tax Liability they stated, the total for 52 weeks(1 year) = £941.72 a difference of £2.70.

 

I know it's not much but I am getting really wound up by now by getting no reasonable explanations, so I phoned the Council Tax Office and asked them how much it should be per week on my property over the year, you really couldn't make up the reply I got,

"It depends how many weeks you work it out over":doh:

I eventually managed to get through to her, that it was her department that sends out bills for a 12 month period, 1 year, 52 weeks ...... it doesn't matter how you pay or how many weeks you work it out over the property has a yearly/weekly Tax Liability. So she worked it out eventually and came up with £18.17 weekly Tax Liability. A difference of 6p to what the Benefit Office are saying.

She advised me to speak to them about it as it was them that sent the letter, by this time I'm thinking there is a problem here, Council Tax Office, Council Tax Benefits Office and I'm getting 2 different amounts quoted from each .......left hand right hand spring to mind.

 

So I phone the Benefits section and question the difference, and they said you would need to phone the Council Tax Office about it, I explained that I had and they said speak to you and she offered to phone them on my behalf. At this point I had already got a rope hanging from the bannister, so I just hung up sat down counted to 100 and thought......... what the hell have I just achieved. NOTHING.. I am no wiser as to any of my questions at all.

 

Pete

[id6052]

Issue 1 - minimum amont you need to live on

When Lovcal Authorities calculate HB/CTB/CTRS, they carry out a means test by comparing your household income against your household applicable amount

 

The applicable amount is calculated by totalling allowances for your family members and additional premiums for certain special circumstances e.g. where you have a disability or caring responsibility

 

Local Authorities and DWP have often referred to the applicable amount as "the amount the government says you need to live on" or similar terms. This is to make it easier to understand for some claimants who might get confused by the term applicable amount. The term "the amount the government says you need to live on" does not really exist anywhere in law.

 

Traditionally the applicable amount for HB and CTB have been identical as the regulations were virtually identical, however from 1 April 2013, CTB is abolished and will be replaced by CTRS (Council Tax Reduction Schemes). Each Local Authority has been expected to design their own local scheme and can therefore set a different method for calculation an applicable amount for CTRS.

 

Assuming the 2 letters both relate to the same period, it appears from your post that your Local Authority's new scheme allows for the applicable amount for CTRS to be calculated differently to HB. If that is the case, they should really have amended their letters to explain how they have calculated the 2 different amounts.

 

By looking at the letters, can you tell which element(s) of the 2 applicable amounts are different?

 

 

Issue 2 - annual v weekly charge

To calculate weekly council tax charge, you: -

 

1. first convert from annual to daily by dividing by 365
   
2. then convert from daily to weekly by multiplying by 7
   

i.e. £944.42 divided by 365 then multipied by 7 = £18.11

 

 

I find it shocking that your Local Authority could not answer your questions, but not surprising, as frequently those on the phones these days are either: -

 

• generic customer service with no background knowledge
  
• revs and bens staff who know how to input data into a computer, but not how the computer then works things out
  

[odds]

 

By looking at the letters, can you tell which element(s) of the 2 applicable amounts are different?

 

I can understand where they have made changes, Family Element of £17.40 and Disabiity Element is reduced by £9.40 which means I have 'excess' income and therefore we will have that thank you very much, so I now pay 100% Council Tax of £93 pm.

My gripe is the statement that says you NEED a minimum amount to live on and come up with two different amounts. Like you said, it should be worded correctly.

 

I find it shocking that your Local Authority could not answer your questions, but not surprising,

 

After writing to them in February and waiting 3 weeks for a reply and getting my documents returned to me I decided to phone and make sure it had been delivered to them. She acknowledged that they had received it and I should have had my documents by now.

As I had not had them returned I was advised that I would have to take it up with the Post Office as it would have been sent back to me, although they have no proof of postage but they sign a book when letters are posted out. So we then had an interesting conversation about how am I supposed to chase up a letter that you posted. The documents turned up the following week, they were posted four days after the above telephone conversation.

These are the sort of people that are supposed to give you help/advice, is it any wonder people just give up.

God, they wind me up.

 

Pete.

[worried33]

Issue 1 - minimum amont you need to live on

When Lovcal Authorities calculate HB/CTB/CTRS, they carry out a means test by comparing your household income against your household applicable amount

 

The applicable amount is calculated by totalling allowances for your family members and additional premiums for certain special circumstances e.g. where you have a disability or caring responsibility

 

Local Authorities and DWP have often referred to the applicable amount as "the amount the government says you need to live on" or similar terms. This is to make it easier to understand for some claimants who might get confused by the term applicable amount. The term "the amount the government says you need to live on" does not really exist anywhere in law.

 

Traditionally the applicable amount for HB and CTB have been identical as the regulations were virtually identical, however from 1 April 2013, CTB is abolished and will be replaced by CTRS (Council Tax Reduction Schemes). Each Local Authority has been expected to design their own local scheme and can therefore set a different method for calculation an applicable amount for CTRS.

 

Assuming the 2 letters both relate to the same period, it appears from your post that your Local Authority's new scheme allows for the applicable amount for CTRS to be calculated differently to HB. If that is the case, they should really have amended their letters to explain how they have calculated the 2 different amounts.

 

By looking at the letters, can you tell which element(s) of the 2 applicable amounts are different?

 

 

Issue 2 - annual v weekly charge

To calculate weekly council tax charge, you: -

 

1. first convert from annual to daily by dividing by 365
   
2. then convert from daily to weekly by multiplying by 7
   

i.e. £944.42 divided by 365 then multipied by 7 = £18.11

 

 

I find it shocking that your Local Authority could not answer your questions, but not surprising, as frequently those on the phones these days are either: -

 

• generic customer service with no background knowledge
  
• revs and bens staff who know how to input data into a computer, but not how the computer then works things out
  

 

In short its down to the fact people like myself cannot ring up and speak to someone who makes decisions and has influence on policy, the people on the phones are there to fob people like me off.

 

In an absolute best case scenario a message may get recorded by the phone operator and passed on, and then read by someone important, but even then that person doesnt communicate with me.