work programme after 2 years

[Bakatcha]

Like many I am approaching the end of my 2 year WP sentence and have repeatedly enquired "What happens next?". I guess the DWP press release answers that question with "more of the same old crap but this time done by JCP".

I have been repeatedly misinformed by A4greed - one minute I have to go on a 2 week outsourced course, this is then corrected to a 2 day internal day course, this is then corrected to just an "exit review". Today I get 2 letters mandating (that word again) me to attend 2 courses on 2 days. The titles of these "courses"?:

1. Overcoming Job Rejection - A4e Countdown Routeway

2. Skills Review - A4e Countdown Routeway.

 

I don't know why they don't save a bit of effort and ink and just put "more of the same old crap".

[Bakatcha]

It should be Post Work Porgramme Awareness Session with the JCP which is around 1 hour and then a Final Exit interview with your WPP, if you finish in June id just ring in sick for the other A4E courses as they are only putting you on it so they can get extra money from the government.

The "courses" I mentioned are in addition to exit review and drone interview. My sentence isn't over until August so I will attend the 2 sessions and be my usual helpful self,

Of course there was no prior discussion about the merits of either course for me - just mandation letters. So much for tailored individual support.

Edited June 30, 2013 by citizenB

[Bakatcha]

Well I've just returned from DAY 1 of my 2 day sentence on A4greed's pre-WP exit training ("Overcoming Rejection"). Absolutely nothing startling or new - just a re-hash of everything we have all been through. Somehow I managed to avoid a sanction doubt though I have been sidelined and sit apart from the others (like a naughty schoolkid)without participating. They will not be getting any forms or info back from me.

I found the most depressing aspect the meek acceptance of my fellow conscripts. Some people really are sheep.

One more day to go.

[Bakatcha]

Bakatcha

 

Will you keep us posted on what the JCP with be demanding of you when you go back. I finish on July 4th at Ingeus and going off what has been written on the web I am worried about the demands. I do everything I can to find a job. My areas of experience have died a death, retail, estate agency and merchandising. I have some admin experience but when up against experienced ex civil service applicants my CV just can't compete!

Will do but I think you may get back to the JCP before me. From memory I'm not due till August.

[Bakatcha]

Well I've just returned from DAY 1 of my 2 day sentence on A4greed's pre-WP exit training ("Overcoming Rejection"). Absolutely nothing startling or new - just a re-hash of everything we have all been through. Somehow I managed to avoid a sanction doubt though I have been sidelined and sit apart from the others (like a naughty schoolkid)without participating. They will not be getting any forms or info back from me.

I found the most depressing aspect the meek acceptance of my fellow conscripts. Some people really are sheep.

One more day to go.

 

I must be getting slow - the irony of being rejected from a course called "Overcoming Rejection" has just struck me.

[Bakatcha]

did you make some models out of a old newspaper and a corn flake box,

thats what we had to do before ,thaught i was back in nursery,

Fortunately not!

Just the same old codswallop on positive thinking/resilience. Plus a re-run of the original tick box assessment (Nothing changed in 2 years). Do a budget (yeah right - did that before and yes I know I'd have more money if I had a job (Doh!). A rundown of benefit cuts (some people remarkably ignorant on these). Do you have cv/letters/email/UJ account etc. etc.) Then the usual pep talk stuff - "finding a job is a full time job etc. etc." In other words

"It's your fault that you don't have a job. Do more searching. Send more letters. Knock on more doors etc. etc.!!!"

One more day.

I will try not to get a sanction doubt but a person can only take so much.

[Bakatcha]

Even worse..... the Welfare To Work Clerk offering the presentation on "Overcoming Rejection" may not even realise that they are offering a public apology for their own failure, and that of their organisation.

 

In historical Japan, wouldn't Personal Honour only be served by the entire army committing sepaku?

I don't think that possibility has registered. Off now to sit on the naughty chair for the rest of the day. Skills Audit- Whopeeee!!!

[Bakatcha]

Do not confuse the Work Programme with Mandatory Work Activity. Two different things. I Have nearly completed 2 years on the Work Programme but (as yet) I have not done any forced unpaid work.

[Bakatcha]

I think the providers and DWP may be about to encounter a few problems with their "exit report".

http://watchinga4e.blogspot.co.uk/

[Bakatcha]

All targets seemed perfectly reasonable when the Welfare To Work Sector negotiated the contracts, and were designated as Minimum Performance Targets - and were clearly accepted as being Minimum Performance Targets at the time and easily exceeded, generating £Millions in Bonus Payments.

Quite! A4e were even paid to help design the WP! So they got money to help design a system that they could profit from.

Now they seem to want to complain that the system isn't fair because they can't make enough cash out of it.

You wouldn't make this up!

[Bakatcha]

The DWP have produced a load of documents spelling out what exactly should happen to the WP returners. Thanks to J Roberts and Freedom of Information these can all be read from here:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/exit_reports_hit_squads_and_the#incoming-403920

I found the PWPS Guidance v3 13 05 29.pdf particularly useful and also the training given to DWP advisers Learning for WSD frontline staff v4 0 2013 05 31.ppt

Be one step ahead of them - do a bit of reading.

 

Basically it is up to the adviser to sort the sheep from the goats. The goats being those with no recent work experience etc. who are consigned to the Mandatory Intervention Regime (MIR). During the trailblazer this was known as "Ongoing Case Management". Basically it's the "hit squad" approach.

I quote:



 

PWPS will introduce a new element for JSA claimants called the Mandatory

Intervention Regime

 

 

 

(MIR)*. This is for claimants who have multiple barriers to work,

including motivational issues and/or a

 

 

 

lack of recent relevant work experience.

The sheep get sent back for normal JCP processing.

Be warned though:



The majority of JSA completers will be assigned to the MIR group, receiving

a more intensive offer of flexible and personalised adviser based support.

[Bakatcha]

I just got a letter through door from Ingeus I have wrote below what it said.

 

 

This letter contains important information about your participation on the Work Programme.

 

As you have been a participant on the Work Programme for almost the maximum two years, you will now be referred back to your local job centre plus shortly to continue receiving support.

We have produced a Work programme Exit report as required by the DWP which outlines your progress over the past two years.

This report has been sent to your local jobcentre plus office.

 

If you require a copy of the report for your reference please contact your local office or call us on the above number.

 

 

 

Now I thought I had to be there when they wrote the exit report as I thought us guys/gals who have been on the WP had to say what we thought about the whole thing, am I wrong.....and yes I will be asking for a copy.

There is no space on the standard form for the customer's opinion of the provider/WP to be recorded. If the pimp is asking for this then it is for their own purposes (perhaps to make you feel that your opinion counts and will be passed to DWP). The standard form is all about the pimp's opinion of you, what "activity" they have made you do, your attitude and what they think the JCP should do with (or "to") you next.

See the form here:

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/work-programme-memo-106.pdf

[Bakatcha]

Don't know where "drone" comes from! I type "P**P" but the site seems to auto substitute "drone"!

 

Later: Now seems to have been fixed!

Edited July 1, 2013 by Bakatcha

[Bakatcha]

It's just so disheartening. I had three interviews with Debs as a Store Trainer and at the end they had no job to officer me due their budget being cut. That was in March. The way the JCP look at it, it will be my fault!

You may well be right Lily. But don't fall into the trap of accepting their judgement. You have done all you can. It most definitely isn't your fault that there are not enough jobs to go round.

Feel good about yourself.

[Bakatcha]

This is what I got yesterday, anyone else got one of these?

 

click on image for larger size.

I note that the copyright is "The Behavioural Insight Team£ aka "the nudge unit".

This makes me immediately suspicious! Have you been told (by JSD) to do this?

Has anyone confirmed that this is part of your JSA? - If so you would be asked to agree to it.

 

If I was presented with this I would decline to complete and refer them to my existing JSA.

[Bakatcha]

and I thought that the JCP couldn't dictate in what format evidence of jobsearch was presented

[Bakatcha]

Mr.P,

Your comment

All smacks of A4e involvement in drawing it up

has prompted me to look again at this document.

Several things strike me:

1. I can see no official DWP reference number for the form - just the copyright - not of the DWP but of the Nudge Unit.

2. The language used (e.g. "journey", "about you") is reminiscent of A4e documents and even the fonts used appear to be identical to those used by A4greed in their introductory booklet. Either the Nudge Unit has plagiarised A4e stuff or there has been some input from A4e. Has the infamous Oliffe-Cooper joined the Nudge Unit following his being shown the door at A4e I wonder!

The involvement of the Nudge Unit poses some questions.

Are people being mandated by JSD or JSag to use this "toolkit"?, If so is it standard procedure for all WP returnees? If not standard procedure for all how does the selection process work, i.e. what factor(s) are used to determine which of the WP rejects are subject to this and which aren't?

Is this another half baked Nudge Unit experiment along the lines of the fake psychometric testing?

[Bakatcha]

Yeah - they seem to like the "journey" analogy. Didn't see anything about the journey being one of ever decreasing circles until the victim disappears up their own fundament though.

[Bakatcha]

Illogical! Consider this scenario:

WP victim obtains job after first week on WP. Spends next 103 weeks in work, Then loses job.

Logically they should not then be consigned to PWPS but should return to the provider.

Unfortunately logic and the WP have very little to do with each other.

[Bakatcha]

F sake, just got a letter from 'Seetec' for "Mandatory Work Activity Programme". SIGH. Says I need to travel to the most difficult town to get to via transport on Wednesday.

 

Seething with even more Anger now, 2 years of pointless work programme, now this! Now seeing 'Osbourne' on BBC NEWS going on about jobs 'LOL despair'.

 

I've been doing a part time degree for last 4 years as well, why have I been put on this!?

it would seem that you have been sent on MWA after recently completing another work related activity (The WP), This is contrary to DWP guidelines.

MWA (MWA guidance 23.07.12.pdf ) section 18 says:

“Given the policy intent of MWA, the following claimants must not be considered for referral

to MWA:

Those taking part in or recently completed another employment measure

(contracted or non-contracted) aimed at helping them move closer to

the labour market”

This enough is grounds for refusal.

see also:

The DWP have confirmed that the WP is an employment-related measure:

“The recorded information we hold that best answers this question is Regulation 3(8) of the

Jobseeker’s Allowance (Schemes for Assisting Persons to Obtain Employment) Regulations

2013, which confirms the Work Programme is an employment-related measure. A link to the

Regulations is provided below:

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/a11-6101.pdf ”

[Bakatcha]

Is that from a FOI request? and could you put up a link to it if possible? (I've already got a copy of the regulation in the link but I'd like a copy of the bit where the DWP actually states they confirm the WP is employment-related. Something to show the JC advisor )

Yes it's from this FOI request

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/is_the_work_programme_an_employm#incoming-406022

[Bakatcha]

Cheers, Bakatcha! Not even the most pushy, dumb JC advisor can argue against an offical FOI reply. I'll have a print-out of that ready for my first JC interview

My pleasure Jasta.

 

Maybe the questions to ask now are:

1. Is the Post Work Programme support an employment related measure? probable answer is "no".

2. Is the MIR (Mandatory Intervention Regime) an employment related measure? If not then why not?

[Bakatcha]

So whats the time length, between completing an 'employment measure', and being avaiable once again for another employment measure?

I have no idea! It depends on the interpretation of "recent".

If you want to know the answer then I suggest you make a FOI request to the DWP.

[Bakatcha]

So whats the time length, between completing an 'employment measure', and being avaiable once again for another employment measure?

I have no idea! It depends on the interpretation of "recent".

If you want to know the answer then I suggest you make a FOI request to the DWP.

On second thoughts maybe this is better left vague as that way it precludes a smartass advisor from pointing out the exact period required and leaves room for "discussion" should the need arise.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Bakatcha

[Bakatcha]

I completed my 2 year stint with Intraining and found it a totally humiliating experience. I then got an appointment with my the jokecentre plus to see an advisory, I assumed to discuss my time there. She has now put a referral in for the mandatory work programme (1 month unpaid). I complete pages of job logs present them regularly and feel put on. I've been treated with depression recently I did not go onto ESA I struggled through and still completed job search etc. This is dragging me down and causing me worry..

I assume that by when you say mandatory work programme you mean Mandatory Work Activity (MWA) and that your 2 year stint with Intraining was in fact the Work Programme?

This being the case you should not have been sent on the MWA so soon after finishing the WP. Adviser guidelines specifically say that people should not be made to do MWA if they have recently completed another employment related measure. The WP is an employment related measure.

documents here

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/exit_reports_hit_squads_and_the

Point this out to your adviser.