Natwest CCJ on their Charges!!

[AndyOrch]

Hi Bury and a warm welcome to CAG and the world of litigation.

 

You have 33 days in total to deal with stage of the summons.(5 deemed served so 28 remaining.(14 to acknowledge service) and if defending a further 14 to submit your defence.As this is a claim for Overdraft facility there will be very little documentation you can request or require as you appear to already have your statements.

 

Have you ever received a Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974? This is the termination and recall notice you should have receive pursuant to the Credit Consumer Act 1974.

 

Did you receive any Letter before Action from Shoos before receipt of the Summons?

 

Take time to look around the forums and familiarise yourself in particular the Nat West section and the success forums.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Considering the amount of unfair charges involved I would Counter Claim and defend with BCOBS in addition.

[AndyOrch]

Don't worry about the defence and Counter C wording for now concentrate on preparing your spread sheet of your intended Counter Claim.Once you have prepared this and added interest...sit down you may be in for a shock.

I will request our wizard on the Site Team look in to assist with your spread sheet and what interest can be applied.

 

Keep your eye on the time line (33 days)

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Many thanks ims21

 

Ok Bury get quantifying...but as said prepare yourself for a shock if the figure is 8K net.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

I did say prepare yourself Bury:madgrin:

[AndyOrch]

Ok lets get ims21 to check it over and once done we can prepare a response.On the legal side you need to request a copy of the demand and the Facility letters vis a CPR 31.14.

 

Just bringing the P.O.C forward :-

 

'The Defendent (D) held the accounts as listed below with the Claimant ©.

D failed to pay the sums due to C when demanded and the sums listed below reamin outstanding.

 

£7692.28 (more charges added on)

 

C has complied, as far as necessary, with the pre-action conduct practice direction.

 

Is the above verbatim Bury.... nothing else?

[AndyOrch]

CPR 31.14 Request

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest and counter claim all of your claim.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 The agreement/ Overdraft Facility conformation and Terms and Conditions from that date. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 The Demand/Termination Notice (Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974

 

3 Notices of Sums in Arrears under running account credit CCA2006 sec 86C

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.CPR 15.5

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

 

Send the above recorded delivery to their Sols and retain proof of postage.

[AndyOrch]

Thank you ims21.

[AndyOrch]

" You have 33 days in total to deal with stage of the summons.(5 deemed served so 28 remaining.(14 to acknowledge service) and if defending a further 14 to submit your defence." post #2

[AndyOrch]

Depends what date is on the summons Bury... don't be in a rush.... plan your strategy..and don't forget 2 summons so all duplicate.BTW are the claim numbers the same?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Right thanks. The claim numbers are the same and on the solicitors letter I have written on behalf of both of us with us both signing. Hope that it is correct.the date on the summons is 6th Novemberthanks again

 

So you need to AoS at the latest next Friday

[AndyOrch]

Bury I note the charges are only up to Oct 11 so perhaps add missing statements to CPR 31.14.

[AndyOrch]

So there are no further charges from that Oct 11 statement and that figure tally's with the summons amount (except for sol and court fee)?

[AndyOrch]

Date the missing statements up to the litigation date then add them as point 4 to your CPR 31.14 request.If you have already posted it then we can request the info via a CPR 18 request.

[AndyOrch]

After viewing the spread sheet there's no wonder why we detest the banks. Keep up the fight!!!

 

Glad you have subbed to the thread Paul:high5:

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Yes Bury that's ok.

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

You wont hear anything Bury until after your defence is submitted.

 

BTW was this an Advantage Gold Account?

 

Regards

Andy

[AndyOrch]

I assume no response to the CPR request as yet?

[AndyOrch]

Having had discussions with other Site Team members it is considered that mounting a Counter Claim (Part 20) would push this claim into Multi Track and would be very risky as a pure Bank Charge claim and expose you to substantial Costs.

I think it may be prudent to leave the CC on the back burner for now as it may be useful if this could be steered into mediation.

 

What has been the outcome with the FOS? What exactly have you submitted to them?

 

When you state you switched to another basic account I assume this was with a completely different bank and you isolated the NW overdraft? If you could flesh the bones on the actual accruement of charges this would help in deciding which way to go with this claim.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Have the FOS allocated a case number to your complaint?

[AndyOrch]

Excellent I will come back to you later on this Bury.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Hi Bury

 

I will draft a defence later for you.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Particulars of Claim (or lack of them)

 

The Defendant (D) held the accounts as listed below with the Claimant ©.

D failed to pay the sums due to C when demanded and the sums listed below remain outstanding.

£7692.28 (more charges added on)

 

C has complied, as far as necessary, with the pre-action conduct practice direction.

 

Defence

 

It is admitted that we held an Advantage Gold Account with National Westminster Bank PLC and was opened on or around xxxx xxxx

It is admitted that the account was isolated due to unfair charges applied to the Overdraft

It is denied that we have failed to pay the sums stated, the sum stated consists purely of fees and interest added to the fees and not a debt incurred by ourselves.. It is denied (if it be alleged) that the Claimant has incurred any such fees and charges, alternatively that such fees and charges if incurred accurately represent sums lincurred by the Claimant by reason of late payment. The incorporation of such fees and interest is penal and unenforceable at law.Which currently equates to £xxxxxxxxxx net of interest and compounded to £xxxxxxxxx

 

Notwithstanding the matters pleaded above, the claimant must under sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA 1974 serve this notice before they can demand payment under a regulated credit agreement.The Claimant has not provided any Notice.

 

The matter is currently being investigated by the FOS case number xxxxxxxx and the Solicitors are aware of this.It is therefore refuted that the Claimant has complied, as far as necessary, with the pre-action conduct practice direction.It is contended that this defence will be plead using BCOBS as a basis of unfairness.

 

In the circumstances the facts and matters set out in the Particulars of Claim do not give rise to an entitlement to claim any of the relief now sought by the Claimant.The Claimant’s claim to be entitled to £xxxxxxx or to any other relief is denied.

 

 

 

One defence Bury..check for accuracy and complete the dates/amounts and FOS case number.Once happy copy and paste into MCOL and print receipt as proof of submission.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

As we agreed a possible claim is referred to and is made known the amounts in question.Its important to familiarise yourself with the pleading and to understand its basis...subject to their response we will have to expand further at AQ and WS and introduce the BCOBS angle of the defence.

 

Best of luck Bury.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Not a problem its vital you understand and question.

 

Ok no its the claimant that has applied the charges on the basis that they are " out of pocket " in servicing the O/D...perhaps change to "Incurred " Their incurrence has negated your balance and you as the defendant have suffered hardship by the fees levied.

 

Ok?

 

Andy