hfc/ppi bancrupt

[pt110856]

hi i applied to hfc for the refund of ppi on my account before i went bancrupt (7 years ago.), i have had a reply, but they want to offset the payment against monies owed to them.

 

is this right. pt.

[dx100uk]

sri you went BK 7yrs ago

 

or

 

you asked for the ppi back 7yrs ago...?

 

if the 1st

 

then the debt has gone, they cant do that

 

dx

[pt110856]

hi bx. i went BK, about 7years ago, iwas in BK for 6mths. will dig out paperwork later.

 

will need a lot of help on this one i think. regards. pt.

[dx100uk]

if the bk is done and dusted

 

they cant offset

 

dx

[pt110856]

hi dx.

i have now got my BK notice, it is dated 2nd February 2006.

 

i came out of BK 12th September 2006. so it is over 6yrs.

 

HFC was one of my creditors.

their letter says it is there final response.

 

they have a form which they want me to sign,

 

" I ACCEPT THE OFFER OF £-------- In Full And Final Settlement Of My Payment Protection Insurance Complaint

With Regard To Account No;-------------, Against HFC Bank.

 

I Agree For This Amount To Be Offset Against My Liability To HFC Bank In Order To Reduce My Overall Indebtedness.

 

Is This Something They Can Do,

 

I Have Not Had Contact With This Company Since The Day Of BK,

 

Even If It Was Not Included In The BK, (i know it was.)

 

Then Wouldnt The Debt Be Statute Barred.

 

all help and info would be gratefully accepted.

 

regards. pt.

[marmaris30]

The bankruptcy debts are discharged by the BR process and therefore no longer legally exist.

 

However, if the PPI you want refunded relates to accounts you included in the BR estate, then the refund would be an unrealised asset in that estate, and not yours.

 

The original creditor and you would be obliged to inform the Official Receiver / Trustee, and it is unlikely that you would receive any benefit for your time and trouble spent reclaiming it.

 

If the PPI to be refunded arose after you were discharged from BR, then you are fully entitled to have that back. Your previous creditors have no claim over it.

[pt110856]

hi marmaris. i have been getting conflicting messages,

i have been out of bankruptcy over 6yrs,

so the debts have been discharged and no longer exist,

 

the ppi was on a discharged debt,

but the bank have upheld my complaint,

and have offered me an amount of money,

but they want to offset it from the amount owed, at bankruptcy.

the ppi was mis-sold,

an offence in consumer law,

so if they are allowed to offset the monies then there is no redress for comitting this offence.

 

any help or advice as what to do next. regards pt.

[dx100uk]

sorry disagree on the assets bit

 

it was 2006

 

check your CRA file.

 

and if they've never sent any notice of sums in arrears.

 

they cant either

 

dx

[marmaris30]

Maybe I've misunderstood your situation or the bankruptcy rules, but this is how I see it. Imagine that you hadn't paid £1000 in PPI premiums, but had saved that money in a savings account instead and then genuinely forgotten about it.

 

You then went bankrupt, at which point all of your assets become the property of the Official Receiver. They sell/liquidate those assets and distribute the proceeds proportionately to your creditors.

 

When discharged your previous debts disappeared. Not just unenforceable, but fully discharged by order of the court, so there is no longer anything to offset.

 

The £1000 you had put in a savings account then turns up. It is not yours, because it should have been part of the bankruptcy estate. The bank holding the money would have no right to offset any pre-bankruptcy debts at the same bank, because those debts no longer exist. There is therefore only one option, which is to report the asset to the OR and facilitate their access to it, so it can be fairly distributed.

 

So the PPI refund is not yours, but neither is it the creditor's. They have to redress the money to its rightful owner and suffer that loss, but that rightfull owner is all of your previous creditors, via the OR.

 

There is therefore not much point in you doing anything, unless you just want to tidy up a loose end for the OR.

 

I would welcome the views of a bankruptcy expert on my interpretation of the rules, but I just don't see how a pre-bankruptcy 'asset' can be returned to you post-discharge.

[marmaris30]

Also your CRA file should now be completely empty, except for anything that has happened since, because all records older than 6 years are removed (although they might still be visible to you personally). All the pre-bankruptcy defaults should be gone, as should the bankruptcy itself, which gets recorded on the day it is declared, and hence over 6 years ago.

[pt110856]

hi dx + marmaris. i have found all paperwork the ppi was sold by hamilton insurance, part of HFC. i need to get this matter sorted,

i know that it was dealt with by the BR. but as the debt is no longer there, and if it was it would be statute barred.

i really need to know how to go about this, what i should put in my response letter.

i now realise that hfc are playing a game with me, as i am doing this without the help of any ppi claims company.

i think they are waiting for me to fold and sign there offer form. regards pt.

[marmaris30]

Clearly the proposal they have made to you is not appropriate, as there is no longer any debt to offset and it is therefore not a valid thing to do.

 

As you know, I don't think there is any point in pursuing a refund to you personally, so I cannot advise you on how to proceed. However they would clearly rather keep all of the money rather than give it up to the Official Receiver (and hence your other former creditors) or, if I am wrong about all this, you in person.

 

Nevertheless, if you like writing letters, there's probably no harm in writing back to them stating that there is no debt remaining because it was discharged by the bankruptcy order of whatever date, but equally they are not entitled to keep money that was illegitimately accumulated by them when the account was still active, and therefore their proposal is not in accordance with the law. They should therefore make a new proposal that doesn't involve offset. If you end up with a cheque then what you do with it would be on your own conscience!

[dx100uk]

PPI claims and bankruptcy

Bankruptcy and PPI....from a simple search engine search i found this...dx

 

I have been receiving more and more queries about people that have gone bankrupt and are looking to reclaim mis-sold PPI, or payment protection insurance.

 

There have been many opinions on this, one is that if the bankruptcy has been discharged, it is over and any PPI claim funds should belong to the bankrupt. However there are and have been differences on this topic.

 

I recently saw and read, where the government’s insolvency service have addressed this in a comment or article on their web site, and they are quite clear on the matter.

 

Here is basically what they have stated:

 

A PPI mis-selling claim: a bankruptcy asset

 

Following provisions of the Insolvency Act 1986, The Insolvency Service takes the view that if a PPI policy was mis-sold before the date of an individual’s bankruptcy, any claim relating to the alleged mis-selling of the policy is owned by the official receiver or trustee of the bankruptcy estate, not the individual to whom the policy was sold.

 

Discharge from bankruptcy does not alter the position

 

Discharge from bankruptcy does not alter this position. Discharge does not operate to transfer unrealised assets, including PPI mis-selling claims, back to the individual.

 

Considering a PPI mis-selling claim: refer to the official receiver or trustee 
If a (former) bankrupt considers that a PPI policy was mis-sold, they should not attempt to pursue a mis-selling claim without reference to the official receiver or trustee.

 

 

If a claim has already been made, the official receiver or trustee should be informed of the claim and the person against whom the claim is being made should be informed of the bankruptcy

 

Use of claims management companies

 

The Insolvency Service is aware that some (former) bankrupts have used claims management companies to pursue PPI mis-selling claims for them. If these services are used after the date of the bankruptcy order, it is possible that the individual will remain responsible for all or part of the commission charged if an award is paid to the official receiver or trustee. This may be because the amount of the commission is challenged by the trustee or if the firm against which the award is made is a creditor in the bankruptcy and exercises a right to set-off the award against its claim in the bankruptcy. This could result in no payment being made from which the commission could be paid.

 

 

As such, care should be taken before acting in this way.

 

 

Best course of action: contact the official receiver or trustee 
The best course of action for any individual contemplating making a PPI mis-selling claim who is or has been affected by bankruptcy is to contact the official receiver or trustee dealing with their case before proceeding further.

 

This is some serious stuff. It basically is stating any PPI claim belongs to the bankruptcy, and if you have a claim in, or are considering a PPI claim, you need to contact the OT or Trustee, regardless of being discharged or not.

 

In addition, if you use a service, you may be held liable for any fees involved as the entire claim can be taken for the bankruptcy.

 

Serious indeed.

 

More information and what I have referenced above can be found here:

 

http://www.bis.gov.uk/insolvency/news/news-stories/2012/Apr/PPI-mis-selling-claims-and-bankruptcy

[marmaris30]

Thanks DX for taking the time to research this in detail and clarify the answer to the question once and for all.

[dx100uk]

Thanks DX for taking the time to research this in detail and clarify the answer to the question once and for all.

 

thanks mm

 

it comes up so infrequently that its diff to always remember everythig with PPI.

 

now i've got it, its bookmarked

 

thanks for pointing it out though, good work

 

dx

[pt110856]

hi dx. thank you for the info, the ppi was proved by hamilton insurance, who are part of hfc, but a third party as

i have found out. does this make any difference. regards. pt

[marmaris30]

I don't think it makes any difference who the insurance company was. The fact is, from the information provided, any refund belongs to the bankruptcy. You are not entitled to the money personally any more.