Transition from ESA to JSA - Advice Needed

[DevonMS]

Hello

This is my first post here but I would be very grateful for any help/advice.

I was on ESA for 24 months following major surgery and following a medical was deemed fit for work (not arguing with that decision).

A letter from ESA dated Monday 16th July 2012 advising me that my entitlement to ESA ended from Friday 13th July was received by myself on Wednesday 18th July. I susbsequently made an appt on 18th July to see a job advisor on 19th July. At that initial meeting I was asked why I hadn't informed them earlier, and I was able to show that the letter from ESA was dated 16th and not received until 18th.

The next time I signed on, I still hadn't received any money and was told by a different advisor that this was because my ESA claim was still 'live' and the onus was on me to phone them and close it down. Payments were still delayed, but in the meantime I received a letter telling me that I was entitled to £20.29 (tues 17th to thur 19th), and was further advised that I was not entitled to anything from 13th to 16th as these were considered waiting days. Okay, fine .....

So, I was lucky enough to be offered a job and started this Monday ..... only now to be told that I am not entitled to a 4 week run on of housing benefit/back to work grant/in work credits (I am a lone parent working 20 hours a week) because I have not been qualifying successive benefits for six months.

The DWP has told me this is because of a gap between 13th and 17th July.

 

I really don't know where to turn for help in getting all this sorted, so any help would be very much appreciated. Thank you.

[estellyn]

Did you actually apply for backdating to 13th July? ie not just mention to the adviser, but fill in and sign a form requesting backdating and explaining why?

[DevonMS]

Did you actually apply for backdating to 13th July? ie not just mention to the adviser, but fill in and sign a form requesting backdating and explaining why?

 

No. The advisor told me there was a 3 day waiting period between claims so I didn't even think I was eligible to have my claim backdated to 13th July.

 

I have only realised the implications of accepting there was such a waiting period now:-x

[estellyn]

There is no waiting period moving between claims or reclaiming, I think as long as there is less than either an 8 or 12 week gap inbetween (can't remember which off the top of my head).

 

Put in a complaint regarding being misadvised and request an application for backdating the JSA.

[DevonMS]

There is no waiting period moving between claims or reclaiming, I think as long as there is less than either an 8 or 12 week gap inbetween (can't remember which off the top of my head).

 

Put in a complaint regarding being misadvised and request an application for backdating the JSA.

 

Thanks for your answer:-) I'm going to go to my CAB office tomorrow. I phoned JCP this morning - was told I would be called back the same day but when does that ever happen?

I didn't know whether it might be easier to appeal my recent JSA entitlement claim notice (dated 22nd August) regarding the start date of the claim and the mis-advice re the waiting time between claims.

[estellyn]

Thanks for your answer:-) I'm going to go to my CAB office tomorrow. I phoned JCP this morning - was told I would be called back the same day but when does that ever happen?

I didn't know whether it might be easier to appeal my recent JSA entitlement claim notice (dated 22nd August) regarding the start date of the claim and the mis-advice re the waiting time between claims.

 

Appealing the decision would not do any good as it does not cover the period in question - you need to apply for backdating for that period first, which will probably be refused and then you appeal. A complaint about being misadvised needs to be put in stating exactly what happened, how you were misadvised - which includes about the waiting days and not being told about applying for backdating when you asked about the days between the end of the last claim and beginning of this one. You need to make very clear what the implications are of being misadvised and how financially you will be missing out with the run on period.

 

If your houisng benefit was still in payment those days then you should still be entitled to H and CTB run on, I think.

[flumps1976]

There would not be a waiting period to serve swithcing from Income Related ESA to Income Based JSA.

The problem is the break in the claim 13th to 17th, you need to complete a retrospective JSA5 back dating form and make sure you mark it as a retrospective application when you complete and return the form, you must give details of you job seraches made in the period to show that you were Actively Seeking or the backdating will be automatically declined and you also need to specify the reason for the delay being the receipt of the letter not arriveing until 18th July.

You also need to include a letter asking for the reconsideration of the decision not to award the run on payments dut to the previous gap in benefits whicvh you hope you be reversed and payment of JSA awarded thus entitling you to the additional payments.

No guarantee that any of it will be awarded but all you can do is ask

[DevonMS]

Thanks for your reply Flumps - so I have to show I was actively seeking work between the 13th and 17th even though I was not even aware my entitlement to ESA had ended until 18th July?

[liggy0]

after reading this i was fuming myself, because ive been in and out of hospital the last 18 months and the same has just happened to me, athos medicare told esa to cancel my benefit without even informing me, when a letter did arrive explaining the date they stopped my benefit, i phoned the esa because i was expecting payment i told them id only just recieved a letter and told them the date it was posted, they said i had to come in with letter and i demanded that there be no break in claim which eventually they accepted, 17th september so new jsa claim setup 17th september so no break at all in claim ,its now 3rd october still awaiting payment signed on monday and was told my payment would go in bank on the 4th but they couldnt tell me how much when i signed monday,so i phoned before and was told that my payment was for 121.00 i flipped how can that be right i said ive been waiting since the 17th of september, then i was told the news that nearly made me smash the phone, you dont get anything for the first 3 days they are waiting days ,i said there was no break in my claim esa 17th signed off, jsa 17th signed on, have a look but they wouldnt have it, so i hung up, then 1 hour later i phoned back and told them that having spoken to cab i was advised that switching benefits from income based esa to income based jsa that the law says you dont get penalised 3 waiting days, can you tell me is that correct , she said she would have to speak to the manager, within 30 secs she was back and said you are right there is no 3 waiting days if your switching from them to income based benefits were awful sorry your 121.00 will go in thursday and another payment for 3 days we owe you will go in monday,dont let them walk all over you you are owed money make sure you get it.

[estellyn]

Yes when processing your claim, the details of the linking claim need to be put in the system - if the processor doesn't do it then the waiting days are applied to the claim.

[liggy0]

Yes when processing your claim, the details of the linking claim need to be put in the system - if the processor doesn't do it then the waiting days are applied to the claim.

how convenient they must do this to everybodys claim then, the processor has a job to do ,but isnt doing it, unless you phone up and demand them to look at it again you wont get what your legally owed.

[estellyn]

how convenient they must do this to everybodys claim then, the processor has a job to do ,but isnt doing it, unless you phone up and demand them to look at it again you wont get what your legally owed.

 

Yes it seems to happen a lot - seems like more training is needed.

[antone]

how convenient they must do this to everybodys claim then, the processor has a job to do ,but isnt doing it, unless you phone up and demand them to look at it again you wont get what your legally owed.

 

As a former processor I can assure you that I never once made this mistake, and it certainly wasn't common. Actually, it puzzles me as to how it would happen at all, as the system should really notice the linking claim automatically. Obviously mistakes can happen, as you've found out, but it still seems a bit strange.

 

It's certainly not "convenient" from a processor's point of view - fixing mistakes is a giant pain in the behind.

[estellyn]

As a former processor I can assure you that I never once made this mistake, and it certainly wasn't common. Actually, it puzzles me as to how it would happen at all, as the system should really notice the linking claim automatically. Obviously mistakes can happen, as you've found out, but it still seems a bit strange.

 

It's certainly not "convenient" from a processor's point of view - fixing mistakes is a giant pain in the behind.

 

The claims now are input by the people on the claims line, not sure what training these people get, antone? I know when I trained, missing linking would be a fail for that claim - 6 fails in a hundred claims and you couldn't become a fully fledged processor. I suspect the training isn't as stringent now.

[antone]

The claims now are input by the people on the claims line, not sure what training these people get, antone? I know when I trained, missing linking would be a fail for that claim - 6 fails in a hundred claims and you couldn't become a fully fledged processor. I suspect the training isn't as stringent now.

 

Well, back when I worked there (ending in 2009ish) claims made on the phone (online was just getting started then, and didn't apply to ESA) the new claims were taken by the call handlers at Pembroke Dock contact centre. They're not benefit trained, but what would happen is that the details they took would be emailed in the form of an "input doc" to the appropriate BDC where the processors would actually build the claim on JSAPS (or ISCS or whatever). So the people actually setting up the claim on the system should be trained about linking and I found that JSAPS would alert you if there was a possibility that linking could apply. But yeah, if they are actually letting contact centre staff update JSAPS now, well, that does sound like a recipe for disaster.

 

Training-wise, it was pretty much as you say. After classroom training (two months or so) you would have a period of supervised consolidation, where you dealt with real claims but had the help of an experienced processor, usually a manager. After that, Line Manager's Assurance - 100 claims were checked. Five or more payment errors, or twenty or more procedural errors (errors that don't affect payment) and you would fail LMA.

 

Also, during all of this time we were on 100% prepayment checks - a manager had to authorise every penny we paid before it could be issued. That was fun. And, obviously you'll know this but some people seem to feel otherwise, paying less than is due or not issuing a due payment at all is every bit as serious an error as paying too much.

[estellyn]

Well, back when I worked there (ending in 2009ish) And, obviously you'll know this but some people seem to feel otherwise, paying less than is due or not issuing a due payment at all is every bit as serious an error as paying too much.

 

Indeed it is, I remember a colleague getting into trouble for forgetting to put all the children on an IS claim - the thing was she did this more than once. I feel things were better back then - you could talk to the person processing your claim, we could phone up and ask a claimant to bring in additional info so their claim would be processed promptly. It was nice. I left in 2003 just before the changes started. Of course a few colleagues accused me of 'working for the other side' by going on to directly help claimants. But I always saw processing as helping claimants too (unlike some colleagues).