Adult travelling on child travel card

[fqureshi89]

Hello there.

 

I was travelling from Station A to Station B operated by southern rail today. My personal circumstances don't allow me to spend a lot of money on travel. My mum is suffering of cancer and her treatment is expensive back home, so I need to send money home. Now today I just exit station B and was caught by RPO. He issued me with caution. This is the first time I did and now repenting why I did this but it was only because of the financial help I'm bound to do for my family. He read out the statement that I am not being arrested and if I say anything etc.... now I asked him about what's gonna happen, he said it's fare evasion and had he not stopped, I could have continued my journey. I said I'm sorry and offered penalty fare but he said no, I'll receive a letter from company etc. Does this caution go National Police Computer or criminal record? What can I do? What are the possible outcomes? Secondly I'm also leaving country next month. I've read a few forums that suggest it can take weeks to get a letter. I'd no previous criminal record or caution in 3 years. If they send the letter after I have left the country, what will happen and my US immigration is in process as well, could it ruin my case? Please help!

 

Regards,

ABC.

[fqureshi89]

Please reply people. A blunder made by me, feeling like hell now.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I was travelling from Station A to Station B operated by southern rail today. My personal circumstances don't allow me to spend a lot of money on travel. My mum is suffering of cancer and her treatment is expensive back home, so I need to send money home. Now today I just exit station B and was caught by RPO. He issued me with caution. This is the first time I did and now repenting why I did this but it was only because of the financial help I'm bound to do for my family. He read out the statement that I am not being arrested and if I say anything etc.... now I asked him about what's gonna happen, he said it's fare evasion and had he not stopped, I could have continued my journey. I said I'm sorry and offered penalty fare but he said no, I'll receive a letter from company etc. Does this caution go National Police Computer or criminal record? What can I do? What are the possible outcomes? Secondly I'm also leaving country next month. I've read a few forums that suggest it can take weeks to get a letter. I'd no previous criminal record or caution in 3 years. If they send the letter after I have left the country, what will happen and my US immigration is in process as well, could it ruin my case? Please help!

 

Regards,

ABC.

 

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I'm afraid you need to wait until the people who know the answers are able to get here, because many of them have day jobs. I shall try to start this off, but am not an expert. I just read this forum and try to learn.

 

It's likely you'll have to wait for the letter to arrive to be sure exactly which law or byelaw they think you broke today. There isn't very much you can do until the letter arrives, which can take 6 weeks or longer.

 

Once the letter comes, then you can explain why you did what you did today and Southern Rail can decide if they will prosecute or not. You will be able to ask if they will agree to settle out of court, but they don't have to agree.

 

How long are you going to be out of the country please and are you coming back? Can you organise for someone to check your mail or possibly have it forwarded to where you are?

 

I don't understand which offences are criminal and which aren't, or the impact on emigrating, but people here do and hopefully they will comment.

 

With luck the guys will be along soon.

 

My best, HB

[firstclassx]

I'm quite a "to the point" forum member, but I aim to be purely factual... so I apologise if I am insensitive to your personal circumstances.

 

Firstly, the procedure will be as follows:

 

Stopped by an inspector

↓

Inspector writes a report and submits to his prosecution department

↓

Prosecution Department write to you and ask for an explanation (or out of court settlement £££)

↓

Explanation/settlement amount not satisfactory or you've had a previous incident

↓

Court Summons to appear at a Magistrate's Court

↓

Usually convicted and sentenced

 

The Law

 

Various legislation exists to combat fare evasion.

 

For deliberate fare evasion, such as the actions which you describe, it is often appropriate to use Section 5 of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889. In your case, the offence would be Section 5(3a).

 

A conviction will earn you a full criminal record, (which could cause problems with visas), a fine of up to £1000, (usually £400-£500), and costs of around £100-£150.

 

 

For other types of ticket irregularities, the Railway Byelaws are often used. There is often no defence to a breach of a Byelaw as they are strict liability criminal offences, triable at the Magistrate's Court. Byelaw 18 states "In any area not designated as a compulsory ticket area, no person shall enter any train for the purpose of travelling on the railway unless he has with him a valid ticket entitling him to travel."

 

As you did not have a **valid** ticket, you can be very easily convicted of this breach. You must understand that it is likely that Southern will prefer to use the more serious Section 5(3a) offence above.

 

A Byelaw 18 offence conviction can result in a fine of up to £1000 + costs. The "criminal record" is less straight forward though. You will probably need to declare it for a visa, but the record won't usually show on a basic check, but should appear on an "enhanced disclosure".

 

Next Step

 

You need to wait for a letter from the rail operator. This can take up to 2-3months. The train company has 6 months from the date of the offence to get a court date.

 

The letter will have a brief introduction and description of the incident and ask you for your version of events. You need to be truly honest and apologetic with them. If you lie, or misrepresent yourself, you will lose any chance of settling this out of court.

 

Send the letter back by recorded 1st class post and wait. You may eventually need to have around £300 or so spare to offer them an out of court settlement, but come back to the forum when you receive a letter, so we can recommend the best action.

Edited August 13, 2012 by firstclassx

[fqureshi89]

I'm permanently leaving the country. Later in time I would require police character certificate of UK as I lived here nearly for 3 years.

[firstclassx]

I'm permanently leaving the country. Later in time I would require police character certificate of UK as I lived here nearly for 3 years.

 

If you get the "police character certificate" within the next 6 months, then you should be okay. If you need it at a later date then you may find it contains a conviction, which some countries may view as "fraud" related.

 

You will normally be convicted in your absence if you move away.

 

If you ever returned to the UK in the future, you would need to sort this out at court.

[honeybee13]

I'm permanently leaving the country. Later in time I would require police character certificate of UK as I lived here nearly for 3 years.

 

Thank you for that.

 

Is the police character certificate to do with a US visa?

 

I hope people will be along to comment, but I don't know how it would look if a case was later heard in your absence and you were found guilty. If it got onto something the police would refer to for this certificate, I can see it might be tricky.

 

HB

[firstclassx]

Thank you for that.

 

Is the police character certificate to do with a US visa?

 

I hope people will be along to comment, but I don't know how it would look if a case was later heard in your absence and you were found guilty. If it got onto something the police would refer to for this certificate, I can see it might be tricky.

 

HB

 

When I issue a court summons, details of the offence and offender are submitted (in bulk) to the NPIA . This happens even before anyone appears in court. The NPIA then email me back with a reference number.

 

The court then update the NPIA with details of the conviction, who subsequently amend any PNC records.

 

[fqureshi89]

Yes it is to do with US permanent resident visa. I already had plans to go as earlier mentioned and was thinking that it could save me money, before this for my entire stay here I've never done such thing.

 

Now if I plead guilty and write apologetic letter and request for out of court settlement, will that work? In that case I don't get issued with criminal record or do I?

[honeybee13]

Yes it is to do with US permanent resident visa. I already had plans to go as earlier mentioned and was thinking that it could save me money, before this for my entire stay here I've never done such thing.

 

Now if I plead guilty and write apologetic letter and request for out of court settlement, will that work? In that case I don't get issued with criminal record or do I?

 

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking [if it is a question] in you first paragraph about saving money and going to the USA,

 

fwiw, you only plead guilty in a court of law. Do you mean you're thinking of owning up to Southern and asking if they will allow you to settle their reasonable admin expenses, etc?

 

This brings us back to you being able to see the letter that Southern will send. The guys here always say that there is no point writing until you have the letter and the reference allocated to your case. Will you be able to arrange for the letter to get to you?

 

How much are you thinking of offering them?

 

If you are allowed to settle, I don't believe it would be on your record.

 

HB

[Old-CodJA]

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking [if it is a question] in you first paragraph about saving money and going to the USA,

 

fwiw, you only plead guilty in a court of law. Do you mean you're thinking of owning up to Southern and asking if they will allow you to settle their reasonable admin expenses, etc?

 

This brings us back to you being able to see the letter that Southern will send. The guys here always say that there is no point writing until you have the letter and the reference allocated to your case. Will you be able to arrange for the letter to get to you?

 

How much are you thinking of offering them?

 

If you are allowed to settle, I don't believe it would be on your record.

 

HB

 

 

I'd second that excellent suggestion from HB.

 

1. Don't jump in to trying to deal with anything until you receive a letter from the rail company. There is no need to tell them anything that they don't already know and occasionally, for whatever reason, someone my be reported, but never hear anything. It may be as simple as the inspector mislaid a report or admin error, but there is nothing to be gained from chasing them until they write to you.

 

2. Yes, you do not need to enter a plea to an offence until you are actually charged with an offence before a Court.

 

3. It might be helpful to see the actual letter that you have received from Southern, but do make sure that you remove all personal details, including any reference numbers and names of staff etc.

 

4. If you do get a letter and if Southern allow you to settle out of Court, there is no lasting record other than a note with the rail company to say that you have previously been warned by them. There would be no other record.

 

5. Any offer to settle should take account of the actual fare/s that are unpaid plus a reasonable sum that you consider would cover the rail company's reasonably incurred admin expenses. If they go to Court they will proabably ask the Court to award somewhere between £125 and £150 if you are successfully prosecuted.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Old-CodJA

[honeybee13]

I'd second that excellent suggestion from HB.

 

Why thank you, OC . I learned it all thanks to you and the guys on the forum.

 

It's always nice to have confirmation as I'm not an industry person, and I'm sure the additional information will help the OP.

 

HB

[fqureshi89]

Today settled the matter with rail company.

 

Last suggestion:

 

On Friday they sent me a letter stating that they think court is better way and they would apply for summons and once received by them, they would forward it to me. I received this on Saturday. I replied via email and appealed. Today they accepted and finally asked to pay £120, which I paid over the phone.

 

Question: would they have applied for summons so early? Will anything come on my police character certificate issued by ACRO.

 

Regards and thanks all.

[firstclassx]

Today settled the matter with rail company.

 

Last suggestion:

 

On Friday they sent me a letter stating that they think court is better way and they would apply for summons and once received by them, they would forward it to me. I received this on Saturday. I replied via email and appealed. Today they accepted and finally asked to pay £120, which I paid over the phone.

 

Question: would they have applied for summons so early? Will anything come on my police character certificate issued by ACRO.

 

Regards and thanks all.

 

As long as you don't do anything again, that is the end of the matter.

 

You may still get a summons if they've laid the information already, but if you do, just ring TfL up and explain you've settled out of court and they will withdraw the case/offer no evidence. Also check with the court that this has happened.

 

Nothing will appear on the police character certificate relating to this offence.