summons to court - ** SETTLED **

[question asker]

hiya guys- firstly i'd like to thank the advise givers here for the countless people you have helped you are all a credit!!!

 

on march the 16th I walked through a oystercard touch in/out assuming my card had enough money on it ( listening to music so didnt hear the beep) and it didnt- got stopped by a ticket inspector and on saturday the 28th of april I got a court summons to appear for the 16th of may.

 

I would very much like to try and settle this out of court being that this is the first time I have had an offense ( I know tfl says its the first time that I have been caught and they dont know wether i've done this before which is fair play) - I understand that its not a question of intent as the facts WERE that i did not have a valid ticket and that they have a huge problem with it BUT

it was a genuine stupid mistake on my behalf which I really regret and which would disproportionately affect my aspiring career as a lawyer, not to mention my uni place which I worked really hard to get coming from a low-income family

 

The facts of the case are:

-I am being charged for 'purpose of travelling .. and did not have a valid ticket' contrary to some bye-law

-to plead guilty in advance and pay costs of £125 or plead not guilty ( i am technically guilty)

-Statement of witness ( ticket inspector)

can you produce a valid ticket?-no

do you have the appropriate means to pay for your rail journey today?-yes (im pretty sure I answered no at the time but I was under great duress at the time so there it is)

do you agree by your actions today it was your intention to avoid paying the appropriate rail fare?- no ( meaning that It was a careless mistake on my behalf)

 

I have contacted citizend advice bureau, with whom I have a meeting this friday- they said tfl usually settle out of court for an X amount of money provided they are first time offenders who have mitigating factors although they are not obliged to which does give me a ray of hope but I am still really worried as there is only 2 weeks left till the summons and I dont know whether that will be enough time? (I am more than ready to pay the administrative costs of filing the summons and any additional fines using money I have saved up)

 

I am dreadfully sorry for my stupid mistake and I do deserve to be punished for it but a criminal record is something I really cant afford to have!!! with all this in mind I was wondering if anyone can answer

- is there enough time for a settlement out of court to be made?

- are the chances of tfl dropping the case increased or decreased by my situation

- supposing they decide not to drop the case and I plead guilty on the form what would the cost to me be?

-how drastically would such a record affect my career? is it a recordable offense? will it come up on checks?

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG. I expect the forum regulars will be along later.

 

I have a couple of comments for you. I think you could be on shaky ground with listening to music and not realising that you didn't have credits on the Oyster card. My understanding is that there is a visual display as well.

 

As you are a budding law student, I'm sure you'll be able to tell us which byelaw the TOC are using, as this will help the guys to advise you.

 

I don't think it's too late to write, the guys will tell you what they think if you tell us which byelaw please.

 

My best, HB

[question asker]

haha thanks for speedy reply

the byelaw in full is- contrary to byelaw 18(1)of the transprt for london railways byelaws,made underparagraph 26 of schedule 11 of greater london authority act 199 and confirmed under section 67 of the transport act 1962

I was in a rush as well but that doesnt counter the stupidty !!!

thanks HB:wink:

[honeybee13]

Thank you for that, I expect the guys will know about it.

 

HB

[firstclassx]

What "mitigating circumstances" could you provide to TfL to settle out of court? TfL are quite strict in this respect because they know they will win at court.

 

As you may know the term "strict liability" you are no doubt aware that this is an open and shut "guilty" verdict from the Magistrates'.

 

Very late for out of court settlement once the summons is issued, you need to be providing genuine mitigating circumstances to TfL here, and even then you could still be prosecuted.

 

Shouldn't appear on a Basic CRB, but may well appear on an Enhanced CRB.

 

Potential for fine to be imposed of Level 3/£1000, likely to be at least 50% of that. You should always declare ANY convictions, just in case they appear and you then look dishonest. Just don't do it again, and I suspect it won't affect your career much at all.

 

However, as an aspiring lawyer, you could do to be more careful in many respects in life, especially with interviews (and tapping in/out!):

 

"do you have the appropriate means to pay for your rail journey today?-yes (im pretty sure I answered no at the time but I was under great duress at the time so there it is)"

 

Which could have landed you with a S5 Offence - Regulation of Railways Act 1889!

[wtlh]

Being a law student with intention to continue in the legal profession may be enough as a mitigating circumstance for them to consider settle out of court. You do however have to provide evidences that

1. You are indeed a law student (letter to prove you student status from the uni perhaps)

2. A criminal record will destroy your career.

 

For point 2 you need to mention that lawyers are subject to enhanced CRB and any conviction sticks for life irrespective of whether it is spent or not. I would recommend you to read about the London Law Student's blog (google it), written by some chap who got into a similar situation and later managed to settle outside the court. Do read the comments in there too. I remember one comment says in effect that any criminal conviction means good bye to hopes of joining the bar.

 

It is advisable for you to check what exactly will happen to your law career if you got convicted, and include any official information you find as part of your mitigating evidences. If possible get an opinion from an established professional in your field, and attach his/her letter with your plea to TFL, as an independent confirmation of how bad the conviction will do to you.

 

A good character reference won't hurt either.

 

You still have time, but do act quickly. In theory it is not too late to settle until right before you enter the court room. But this is in reality your last chance, so make it as persuasive as possible. If the prosecutor still decided to go ahead to take you to court after your written pleas for alternative settlement then it is very unlikely anything will change on the court day, unless you are very very charismatic in person.

 

Do put in a good effort and good luck.

Edited May 2, 2012 by wtlh

[question asker]

Im in a very complicated situation at the moment being that I recently dropped out of university ( where I studied business law) as I got into a much better one- im not studying law there but I would definitely use it for my future career as it is somewhat related to the field I want to be in ( russian legal system- studying russian and history at ucl) - I also dont know how having said record would affect me going into the university- and what exactly would count as mitigating factors as I am very active in my community- my senior prosector is based at camden railway station london- should I wait till friday for my appointment with citizens advice bureau and sort things out with them or sohuld I call them in person and explain my mitigating factors whatever they be?

[wtlh]

Okay in your situation, I think you should call the senior prosecutor as soon as possible. Try to talk to him, or any other prosecutor instead of being "blocked" by a secretary. Since you have now got the summons, I believe the prosecutors will be interested in talking to you. Basically show your regrets and say sorry, promise never to do this again, and say that a criminal record will be detrimental to your future career, and that you are willing to pay all their costs and fees etc. Listen what the prosector has to say. It may well be that he will agree to settle, but if not, listen to his reasons on why they would not settle, and go back and figure out how to mitigate those reasonings in writing a few days later. Be as polite and friendly as possible on the phone but don't sound meek.

 

IMHO I would be surprised if the CAB would offer you a lot of valuable advices on how to avoid the criminal conviction other than to suggest you settle outside the court. They will however be able to advise you on how bad/or irrelevant the conviction for the by-law offence will do to you.

 

Nevertheless I can safely say that the conviction will have zero effect on your university position.

[question asker]

ok thank you very much for the advice I will certainly come back to tell you of any updates!!!

[Old-CodJA]

There is always time for an out of Court disposal, right up to the Court door if you are able to persuade the prosecutor that it is in the company's best interest to accept.

 

You will need to provide a compelling application, including apology and undertaking not to repeat the offence in future. You will need to make an offer to cover all of the reasonable costs incurred by the company and any unpaid fares immediately

[question asker]

hi guys I just gave them a call like advised and they were very friendly- listened to my case and agreed to settle out of court!!!! the fee was £229.30 but if anything its a lesson well learnt- THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH FOR THE ADVICE dont ever stop you guys rock!!!!:whoo:

[honeybee13]

Hello again and well done. And thank you for letting us know, far too many people don't after they have advice here.

 

I'll change your thread title to reflect this.

 

Move on with your life now and as you say, remember this lesson.

 

My best, HB

[Bashiru]

Hi Question asker, did you call the precutors or TFL to get the out of court settlement?

 

Thanks

 

Bash

Edited May 10, 2012 by Bashiru

[Bashiru]

Question asker,, another question for you. Having read your statements, my understanding is that you were stopped on the 16th of March and got a letter to attend court on the 28th of April to attend court on the 16th of May. Based on the experiences of the people in the forum so far, my believe is that you will always get a letter of intent to procecute with a chance to state your part of the event and any mitigating circumstances if applicable within two weeks from the date of the letter. In your case, it appears TFL did not send you the first letter but went straight to presenting your case to the presecution team..

Can you or anyone clearify why this is different please.

 

As for me I was stopped on the 23rd of March (just a week after you) and still waiting to hear from TFL.

 

Thank you

 

Bash