Capital One PPI claim

[joanneg]

Hi all,

 

My hubby got a capital one credit card in dec 2002 through a postal invitation. We still have the account open and we are repaying under the CCCS on a DMP (about £125 left).

 

We began a claim against mis-sold PPI in august 2011 and received our final response last week as they lost all the paperwork.

 

Initially we requested the terms and conditions, then SAR which is incomplete as it only list data from January 2005 onwards making it impossible for me to calculate the full amount of PPI we paid.

 

We cancelled the PPI when we realised it was an optional charge in December 2008 (when we became aware of all the publicity about it) but didn't realised we could still claim it back as we assumed the account was too old.

 

So our final response letter is pretty bog standard refusing our claim under the basis that we took out PPI in the activation phone call made in December 2002 but they cannot provide a copy of this call claiming it has been destroyed. They cannot provide any written evidence that we accepted PPI so that's that.

 

They also claim as we didn't question the payments on the statement we knew what it was for. We did question the payments numerous items and was always told it was something you had to have to get the card. As we didn't have the best credit rating we accepted this as true.

 

Their decision doesn't really cut it with us but rather than waiting for the FOS or start court proceedings we have been able to get a re-review of the case and my hubby has a phone call arrange on monday am to discuss. Obviously we know nothing is going to change and we're happy to go through the courts if needed.

 

I just have a few questions if possible:

 

Does it matter that we cancelled the policy in December 2008? Neither side has mentioned it and as I'm currently writing a very lengthy letter in response I don't know whether to include this or not. Was thinking along the lines of " As soon as we became aware the policy was optional we cancelled immediately".

 

Should they be able to provide evidence of all payments of PPI made since the account started? Otherwise how do we know how much has been charged?

 

Finally if I was able to post our letter to capital one here would anyone be willing to give it a read through and offer opinions?

 

Many thanks and apologises for the long post.

 

Joanne

[ims21]

Hi

 

Cap One are a tough nut to crack and this phone call activation nonsense is their standard response.

 

If you take the court route to get your money back you need to bear in mind that the onus of proof of mis-selling will be on you.

 

It may be that they do have the transcripts of these calls but just claim that they do not have to release information prior to six years. It depends how hard you want to push for full comliance with a SAR. You can ask them to confirm in writing the date on which your data was destroyed, by whom and why.

 

If you post your proposed letter up then it can be reviewed.

 

ims

[joanneg]

Hi,

 

This is as far as I have got. We are also making a complaint about the service we have received which will be added to the end of the letter but I didn't feel it was really relevant to this thread.

 

Any comments greatly appreciated ....

 

 

"I am writing with reference to the above account and my claim for mis-sold PPI which has been with your company since August 2011 and I finally received a final response to in letter dated 5th March 2012.

 

I am demanding a re-review of my case by you personally on the following basis:

 

In your letter dated 5th March 2012 you claim I purchased PPI during my card activation phone call dated 16th December 2002. You are unable to provide evidence of this call claiming it has been destroyed. If you cannot provide evidence of this call then you are unable to assert with any credibility that this call took place.

 

You claim you are also unable to provide evidence of this destruction of my personal data. Under the Civil Evidence Act 1995 you are required to provide evidence that this data was destroyed by a registered data controller and in accordance with the act. You are also required to keep auditable records on documentation held including a certificate of destruction. I look forward to receiving this evidence and information by return.

 

I also expect to receive relevant copies of Sales Scripts, Training Manuals including Objection Handling guidelines which you would be required to provide to the FOS if I chose to proceed to this option.

 

You have sent me incomplete statements of my account between 6th January 2003 and 6th January 2005. There is no evidence of any transaction history between that period yet from 5th February 2005 there is full transaction history. This leaves you in breach of the Data Protection Act and I will be lodging my complaint with the Information Comissioner’s Office. It also leaves me unable to create accurate calculations of the amount of PPI charged to my account.

 

As members of the FSA, Banking and Lending Code, ABI and GISC you are required to abide by the regulations and codes set out by these organisation. They include:

 

“ making sure all the information we give you is clear, fair and not misleading;”

 

“give you enough information and help so you can make an informed decision before you make a final commitment to buy your insurance policy.”

 

The Association of British Insurers codes also set out relevant requirements. For example, the ABI General Insurance Business Code of Practice for all Intermediaries (1989) (the ABI Code) said that it:

 

“... shall be an overriding obligation of an intermediary at all times to conduct business with utmost good faith and integrity.”

 

The ABI Code also included requirements about "explanation of the contract". And it said the intermediary should:

 

“Explain all the essential provisions of the cover afforded by the policy or policies he is recommending so as to ensure as far as is possible that the prospective policyholder understands what he is buying; [and] draw attention to any restrictions and exclusions applying to the policy.”

 

As I have already stated in numerous conversations with your company I was told that PPI was something that came with the card and I did not receive or return any documentation relating to this. I also queried the charge when noticed on my statement and was again informed it was nothing to worry about just something I had to have to have the card. At no point was I informed that PPI was optional, what the full costs and implications were and you are unable to provide any evidence contrary to this.

 

As a Insurance intermediary you were required to provide me with adequate information to make an informed decision. You did not.

 

The Unfair terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 states:

 

Unfair Terms, Section 5.4

 

“It shall be for any seller or supplier who claims that a term was individually negotiated to show that it was”

 

Written Contracts, Section 7.1

 

“A seller or supplier shall ensure that any written term of a contract is expressed is plain, intelligible language”

 

Written Contracts, Section 7.2

 

“If there is doubt about the meaning of a written term, the interpretation which is most favourable to the consumer shall prevail”

 

Effect of unfair term, Section 8.1

 

“An unfair term in a contract concluded with a consumer by a seller or supplier shall not be binding of the consumer”

 

The responsibility lies with you, the seller or supplier, to ensure the relevant regulations and codes are adhered to and as the consumer the law is firmly on my side.

 

With all this in mind I would suggest that a more favourable decision would be in the best interests of both parties and offer you the opportunity to re-evaluate your previous decision.

 

I have enclosed a without prejudice draft Statement of Charges calculated with a rate of 32.56% interest which is the standard purchase rate of interest as stated in the terms and conditions sent to me. As you can see the period of 6th January 2003 – 6th January 2005 is currently highlighted. This is due to the lack of information provided by your company leaving me to estimate the amount. As soon as you provide the necessary information these amounts will be adjusted as necessary.

 

If the appropriate outcome is not reached or any of the requested information not received within 14 calendar days of receipt of this letter I will begin county court action."

 

Feel free to rip apart if necessary, thanks.

 

Joanne

[ims21]

I actually think it's good

 

ims

[gregorious77]

very good and now puts the ball in their court.

Get the court papers filled out though as I am sure they will send you a letter stating they have investigated this matter and do not agree etc. I am aware you have read my mammoth thread so you will be aware of the time scales for court action, still faster than FOS but you will need to put in the hours.

[joanneg]

Thank you both

 

Let the battle commence lol

[joanneg]

Just a quickie before I send off this letter.... can I also add 8% interest to my calculations now or its that only offered through the court proceedings? Tbh the 8% additional interest confuses me a bit.

 

Thanks

[ims21]

Hi

 

What calculations have you done?

 

ims

[joanneg]

Hi

 

I used your compound interest spreadsheet which worked out from 01/2003 to 01/2009 £602.03 charges and £931.67 interest at 32.56% interest.

 

Only problem I had was for the first two years they haven't sent me the full statements so I had to guess the charges based on balances that matched from the rest of the statements they sent.

 

We sent the letter and spreadsheet via email to Liam Quegan yesterday and my Husband spoke to him yesterday and he is personally going to look back at it. Expecting the same answer though.

 

I'm happy to post the spreadsheet if you wanted if someone could tell me how.

 

I will keep you up dated

 

Joanne

[ims21]

Hi

 

Lets see what Liam comes back with

 

ims

[napoleon_dynamite]

Hope you don't mind me following this thread, I have a Cap1 card with PPI as well. And, by the way, that is a pretty good letter!

[joanneg]

Hi all,

 

Just a quick update ....

 

We sent the e-mail last Sunday evening for Liam to receive Monday morning (12th) and my husband spoke to him that Monday lunchtime and he has confirmed receipt and that he is investigating.

 

Had an e-mail last Tuesday (13th) from Simon Carter (Executive Response Team) on behalf of Liam Quegan saying he will be investigating and respond within 5 working days or e-mail explaining why he is unable to respond. Had an e-mail yesterday requesting a further five working days. Not sure if this is good or bad?? We'll have to see.

 

Obviously if we don't get the response we want, as we stated in writing we expected Liam to investigate personally we will be requesting this.

 

In the meantime, our complaint about customer service has been answered and we have it confirmed, in writing, that my husband was lied to and abused by the customer service staff .

 

As soon as we hear anything else I will let you all know.

 

napoleon-dynamite - thank you, if you need any numbers or e-mail addresses we have quite a few so happy to pass them on lol

[gregorious77]

With all due respect it sounds to me like they are playing you and just stringing you along and buying time!

Stop being so soft on them, give them a written time limit now and stick to it.

Start your action exactly once this time limit is up and start taking control.

I wouldn't waste any more time on the phone to these pond life you will have plenty of phone time later with the solicitors!

They have YOUR money and they will try and keep hold of it as long as possible.

[joanneg]

We have responded to the second e-mail stating they have til end of play next Tuesday and then we start court proceedings. Am looking at this stage as gaining evidence against them. The old give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves. Have a child free day tomorrow so will be beginning the court forms.

 

Finally received the SAR requested in October today as well and the PPI requirements box says NO .... couldn't be clearer really.

 

Gregorious77, was actually just scanning through your thread to see if you've listed the name of the solicitors they use ... like to do my research .... if you didn't mind letting me know thanks

[gregorious77]

They use their own legal team.

[gregorious77]

Just called Litigation department.

Started off with Wendy Starr who I believe is a proper solicitor but not 100% sure then had Indi Kaur whos title is Legal specialist, I dont think she is a solicitor but when I had the allocation hearing by telephone they also had a brief on their side who did all the legal talking (indi was just listening in) I dont know what company it was although I might have his name written down somewhere in my notes.

[gregorious77]

Just looked and his name was Henry Warwick (barrister)

http://www.hendersonchambers.co.uk/barristers/barrister-profiles/junior/henry.warwick

[joanneg]

Thanks,

 

Have received our response with the usual blurb they talk. There is one sentence that confuses me though:

 

"Our records show that the policy was indeed sold over the telpehone when you contacted us to activate your credit card on 16 December 2002. Although we do not have a copy of that specific telephone conversation, a note was placed on your account to confirm the sale"

 

I assumed this information would be in the SAR but that only goes back to 2008, so four years missing. If they could prove this note wouldn't they send me a copy. He must have seen it to state that.

 

Also they have cleared our balance and offered us £100 ex-gratia payment for the service we have received from them. Should I take this?

 

Am concerned if I do this will be used against us at court but could use the money to start the proceedings really. Should I get confirmation that this £100 is compensation for the customer service we received?

 

Thanks.

[gregorious77]

Why does the SAR only go back to 2008?

You need to tell them to send the rest or you will report them!

When is the 40 days up?

Ask for a recording or transcript of the alleged call as well!

They said the same to me but it was not detailed in the SAR at all although my SAR did go back to the beginning of the account.

[joanneg]

We requested the SAR back in October so 40 days definitely up as they lost the request. They don't really care that I'm going to report them though. Apparently they are investigating why I have not been sent a full SAR. In the SAR though is the computer screens of the original application so they must still have my full account history to have included this.

 

They have already confirmed they don't have a copy of the phone call just apparently a note on the account. Like I said they must have seen the note on the account to put this in writing so why not send me the proof.

 

They have stated in their final response they plan to defend the sale of PPI so I need to move on to the next stage.

 

Not sure whether to go FOS or small claims court at the moment.

 

Am fed up of the cat and mouse games they are playing. Its so frustating

[joanneg]

OK,

 

So will be going to court but will need help with this if that's ok.

 

Take it its the N1 form I need to fill first?

 

Also do I need to inform Capital One of my intention to take them to court first?

 

They have sent me the statements for the missing 2 years transactions they previously so I can now calculate the correct figures to claim back. Do I put the end claim date as now or the date I cancelled the PPI? And do I add the additional 8% interest on top and how do I calculate that.

 

Thanks

 

Additional Info: Just done a new calculation based on the end of claim date being today (as read in greg's thread) and it makes this:

 

PPI charges (01/03 - 12/08) £558.17

Compound Interest @ 32.56 % (standard purchase rate) £2867.27

 

Total amount £3425.44

 

Plus 8% stat interest of £1841.07

 

Overall total of £5266.51.

 

Can anyone verify these figures? Will I still be able to go through the small claims court?

 

Thanks

Edited April 2, 2012 by joanneg

[gregorious77]

only you can decide court or FOS.

Court will cost money which you will add onto the claim. It will be quicker 9 months in my case and you have control of timescales to a certain extent.

You will have to do some work but all on here can help with that bit.

FOS will do it all for you but who knows how long itll take?

[gregorious77]

OK,

 

So will be going to court but will need help with this if that's ok. Good and help is at hand!

 

Take it its the N1 form I need to fill first? Yes fill that out

 

Also do I need to inform Capital One of my intention to take them to court first? No they have given you their final response

 

They have sent me the statements for the missing 2 years transactions they previously so I can now calculate the correct figures to claim back. Do I put the end claim date as now or the date I cancelled the PPI? And do I add the additional 8% interest on top and how do I calculate that.

 

Thanks

 

Additional Info: Just done a new calculation based on the end of claim date being today (as read in greg's thread) and it makes this:

 

PPI charges (01/03 - 12/08) £558.17

Compound Interest @ 32.56 % (standard purchase rate) £2867.27

 

Total amount £3425.44

 

Plus 8% stat interest of £1841.07 Dont add this, its at the courts discretion. state that you will be requesting it in your POC though.

 

Overall total of £5266.51.

 

Can anyone verify these figures? Will I still be able to go through the small claims court? Once you remove the 8% stat you will!!

 

Thanks

 

See above to answers to your questions and go get em.

[joanneg]

Cheers! And I will!

 

Do I still need to push them for my complete SAR. I'm a little worried that as they claim they have a note on the account that we took the PPI by phone (but they haven't included it in the SAR ... it only goes back to 10/08) they could bring that out as evidence against us.

[gregorious77]

No they cant because it did not happen!

You can ask them once more to send you proof but get on with putting in the claim in the mean time!