speeding fine /no proof of speed

[davidm53]

im writing this for a friend he is a lorry driver

and was driving away from work in his car at 2am [roads empty] on the m4 through roadworks

he was then pulled over by a plain police car and was issued with a ticket for speeding ,

 

when my friend asked what speed he was doing the officer said over 50 becuase he had followed him for a mile

,the police car was not fitted with any speed recording device or cameras .

 

my friend challenged the ticket and went to court where upon the judge gave him a £400 fine and 4 points on the word of the officer,

because he had been a police officer for 15 years and was reliable .

 

surely this cant be fair justice, he is going to see a soliciter to see where he stands

[Andy77799]

That doesn`t sound right? But I am sure others will be along soon. Thought they had to have real evidence these days...

[sparx]

That doesn`t sound right? But I am sure others will be along soon. Thought they had to have real evidence these days...

 

I believe that on a motorway the opinion of one officer that a vehicle is speeding is all that is required. Even so, the car may have a calibrated speedo fitted in which case that officer can corraborate his judgement with hard facts.

[Andy77799]

I believe it has to be calibrated within a certain time but I stand to be corrected.

[Michael Browne]

.my friend challenged the ticket and went to court where upon the judge gave him a £400 fine and 4 points on the word of the officer, because he had been a police officer for 15 years and was reliable .

surely this cant be fair justice, he is going to see a soliciter to see where he stands

 

What evidence did your friend have (other than his denial) that he was not speeding? If he didn't have any, it would have been better to have consulted a solicitor before the hearing, who no doubt would have advised him not to bother and accept the fixed penalty. Consulting a solicitor after the event is pointless and a waste of time and money.

[Old Snowy]

In the case of alleged speeding on a motorway the opinion of a single police officer is sufficient to obtain a conviction. Elsewhere the opinion would require a degree of corrobration either from a suitable device (laser, calibrated speedo) or from a second officer. Unfortunately, on the basis of the OP's post, there was good grounds for the conviction. The OP's friend would have been well advised to accept the ticket as he would now have 1 point less on his licence and be £340 better off.

[Andy77799]

all wrong in this day and age, they should have proof.

I got accused of doing 70 in what was then 50 and I was doing 40ish

shouted at them and told them what I think and they went all calm and let me go, I was actually below the limit

[dx100uk]

at the end of the day

 

if he was speeding - end of!

 

CAG are not here to assist in avoiding just deserves!

 

dx

[crem]

at the end of the day

 

if he was speeding - end of!

 

CAG are not here to assist in avoiding just deserves!

 

dx

 

but we don't know if he was speeding or not dx. The OP has denied it, the police officer said he was. How do we know who was right?

[dx100uk]

which is why i said if.........

 

it does happen

 

only the op's friend knows the truth.

 

dx

[Fantoma_2010]

My first post so please don't laugh if I've done it wrong..

 

Have a look at this website [edit], there is a lot of good info.

 

Good luck.

Edited November 19, 2011 by dx100uk
no links to external sites please

[green_and_mean]

My first post so please don't laugh if I've done it wrong..

 

Have a look at this website [edit], there is a lot of good info.

 

Good luck.

[green_and_mean]

my friend challenged the ticket and went to court where upon the judge gave him a £400 fine and 4 points on the word of the officer,

because he had been a police officer for 15 years and was reliable .

 

surely this cant be fair justice, he is going to see a soliciter to see where he stands

 

If you got mugged and the only evidence was that it was seen by a Police Officer who identified the attacker in Court would you expect him to be convicted on that evidence or let off because the PC may be lying?

[Andy77799]

Yeah but IF he wasn`t speeding then would there be anything you could do???

[green_and_mean]

Yeah but IF he wasn`t speeding then would there be anything you could do???

 

Isn't that the point of going to Court? You go to Court, the Magistrate/Jury hears the evidence and comes to a verdict. No doubt the magistrate listened to both sides and considered the PC more persuasive.

[Aretnap]

In the case of alleged speeding on a motorway the opinion of a single police officer is sufficient to obtain a conviction.

I think this point is sometimes overstated. The absolute requirement for corroboration doesn't apply, but the officer's opinion would still have to be sufficiently convincing for the court to find beyond reasonable doubt that the defendant was speeding. If it was generally enough then the police wouldn't bother with expensive speed detection equipment; they'd just send a plod to stand on a flyover and write down the numbers of the cars that he thought were speeding. In fact, when I asked a traffic cop of many years experience about this he told me that he'd never heard of an actual case where someone had been charged, let alone convicted, on the strength of an uncorroborated opinion.

 

All of this is academic in this case of course as the officer presumably checked the OP's friend's speed against his own speedo, which would generally be enough to secure a conviction even on a non-motorway.

 

As for the original question - the OP's friend can appeal to the Crown Court within 21 days of the conviction if he wants to, but he would risk extra costs if he lost, which is very likely by the sound of it.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Aretnap

[green_and_mean]

I think this point is sometimes overstated. The absolute requirement for corroboration doesn't apply, but the officer's opinion would still have to be sufficiently convincing for the court to find beyond reasonable doubt that the defendant was speeding. If it was generally enough then the police wouldn't bother with expensive speed detection equipment; they'd just send a plod to stand on a flyover and write down the numbers of the cars that he thought were speeding. In fact, when I asked a traffic cop of many years experience about this he told me that he'd never heard of an actual case where someone had been charged, let alone convicted, on the strength of an uncorroborated opinion.

 

All of this is academic in this case of course as the officer presumably checked the OP's friend's speed against his own speedo, which would generally be enough to secure a conviction even on a non-motorway.

 

As for the original question - the OP's friend can appeal to the Crown Court within 21 days of the conviction if he wants to, but he would risk extra costs if he lost, which is very likely by the sound of it.

 

The PCs opinion that the driver was speeding is corroborated by the speedo of his car, if he was just standing on a flyover he would have no way of knowing how fast traffic was moving.

[Aretnap]

The PCs opinion that the driver was speeding is corroborated by the speedo of his car, if he was just standing on a flyover he would have no way of knowing how fast traffic was moving.

Yes, that's what I said. Except that it's not that difficult to spot a car which is going too fast, especially for an experienced observer. On a motorway the court would in theory be free to convict based solely on his opinion with no corroboration at all, but the fact that they could does not mean that they would or should.

 

Graham confirmed the right of the courts to convict someone of speeding based solely on the opinion of officers standing by the roadside - in that case it was two officers standing next to a non-motorway.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Aretnap

[davidm53]

thanks everyone for your response will update when i speak to him

[tiredTraveller]

If he wasn't speeding, then what is the significance of explicitly pointing out that the motorway was empty? Isn't that normally a way of saying 'well yeah I was, but I wasn't doing any harm, was I?'

[Old Snowy]

If he wasn't speeding, then what is the significance of explicitly pointing out that the motorway was empty? Isn't that normally a way of saying 'well yeah I was, but I wasn't doing any harm, was I?'

I understand your logic but were the prevailing traffic conditions heavy, for example, then wthat would be viewed as an indicator of greater harm and may result in a greater sentence.

[Old Snowy]

If he wasn't speeding, then what is the significance of explicitly pointing out that the motorway was empty? Isn't that normally a way of saying 'well yeah I was, but I wasn't doing any harm, was I?'

I understand your logic but were the prevailing traffic conditions heavy, for example, then wthat would be viewed as an indicator of greater harm and may result in a greater sentence.

[davidm53]

UPDATE my friend decided to engage legal help with this ,and it was taken to crown court ,where upon the judge said there was no evidence and threw it out

[Andy77799]

Good!