depression facing investigation which is still not started after 8mths please help me

[Kitten1]

Sorry I haven't replied sooner but have been at a wedding.

 

Ok, so the issues are a minor meds error and failure to formally record post op obs yes?

 

You have admitted the errors, and not tried to hide from them. What happened to 'learning from mistake'??

 

I made a meds error when pg. It was investigated without me being suspended and the outcome was a system failure so I was given a councelling session.

 

They do sound like they are being over zealous in this matter. There are numerous ways of dealing with this. It would surprise me greatly if none of the other nurses had made any errors such as these at some time or another.

 

Let me have a think.....

[Kitten1]

This may sound random but bear with me....

 

How long have you been qualified for and how much actual experience have you got?

[sadgirl]

This may sound random but bear with me....

 

How long have you been qualified for and how much actual experience have you got?

 

 

 

thank you so much for ur advice its much appreciated . i have 5years post grad experience and only very limited experience. i worked on a rehab and post limb amputation surgical patients and an an orthopaedics ward thats it.

my current position is in a very busy surgical ward in general surgery from gynae to colorectal. its taken me a year to get my head around knowing how to care for all types of surgery as well as all the different consultants ways of treating the same surgery.

 

i am genuine in that i just want to care for people and do the best for them i treat every elderly person like they were my own granny> as cliche as it sounds.unfortunately my illness is hindering my ability to carry out my job competantly.

its all getting to much.

[sadgirl]

Hi Sadgirl

 

I am in exactly the same position as you so can totally relate to where you are coming from. I have been off now since early April after my dad had a major heart op and had to put my mum in a home....worst few weeks of my life.....just cry everyday! I got called into work for a meeting and they told me they are making me redundant prob due to lots of time off..........If someone has neva suffered from depression they will neva know! Things can only get better xx

 

Janb

 

 

hi janb

thanks for replying. i am so sorry to hear wat ur going through family r more important than anything else in the world. i do hope ur dad is recovering well and that u r doin ok. i wish i had advice to give u all i can say is thank u and fingers crossed for u that things will turn out gud for u in the end.

take care

[Kitten1]

So you qualified 5yrs ago but worked in a different area to now?

 

Have you had regular training and clinical supervision whilst in this post? What about a personal development plan? You mentioned an action plan in an earlier post. Have you been offered support to achieve these goals?

 

Sorry for all the q's but just trying to get a picture of how much support you have been offered and accepted. If you haven't been supported by your line manager after any issues have been highlighted then you have been let down by the system that is supposed to be there to support you.

[janb]

sad girl thank u xxx

[boggey1]

I haven't read whole post but wanted say thanks to you and all nurses they were unbelievable when had chemo and still make me tearful when talk of the care, an have no idea where they get the caring nature from

[sadgirl]

So you qualified 5yrs ago but worked in a different area to now?

 

Have you had regular training and clinical supervision whilst in this post? What about a personal development plan? You mentioned an action plan in an earlier post. Have you been offered support to achieve these goals?

 

Sorry for all the q's but just trying to get a picture of how much support you have been offered and accepted. If you haven't been supported by your line manager after any issues have been highlighted then you have been let down by the system that is supposed to be there to support you.

 

 

the first action plan was given to me and it was achieable i did make every effort to complete it and did so under mentor guidence but really all she did was ask me about the medications used on ward which i answered correctly. i was told by her that i was doin very well.

however my ward manager never discussed my action plan any further.

in the meantime i could barely sleep or eat and anxiety was high!

 

i then made an error 4mths later and was hauled into ward manager and shouted at and ridiculed by her which wks later she said she may have been a bit harsh!

during all of this time my health was deteriorating rapidly and thought perhaps my anti depressants were making me more drowsy. i informed my employer and they said i should stop them in agreement with my gp so i did.

 

then they presented me with a new action plan which was completely unrealistic but wishing to appease them i agreed to it, stupidly. i was suppose to have each of the action plan tasks or procedures supervised by a deputy ward manager. she didnt supervise anything instead i asked members of staff to supervise me and they were happy with my performance.

deputy manager just wrote things in a note book that i had done. offering no feed back at all.

 

i then recieved a letter stating that if i did not complete it in 3mths my employment wud be terminated.

 

under this pressure i got twice as depressed my gp started me on a new anti depressant i informed my employer of this.

then i made the mistakes on two separate days in which they are charging me for at the moment.

also i was allowed to carry on working for several days under extreme stress after the incidents took place.

i then went off sick.

therefore didnt get to finish my action plan which was to be completed by june.

a month later i was still no better with my depression and rang HR to find out wat the next step was, she replied that i would return to work when better and be given a chance to complete my action plan.

 

however after this i submitted another sick note as i atted my gp who stated that i was in no fit state to return. subsequently i got the phonecall from HR to inform me that when my sick note was up on the 30th of june i wud be suspended and gross misconduct would be investigaed.

 

i am sorry this is such a lengthy message and am so grateful to u for reading it. i cant sleep eat or function properly and am so thankful of everyones help in this matter.

[sadgirl]

So you qualified 5yrs ago but worked in a different area to now?

 

Have you had regular training and clinical supervision whilst in this post? What about a personal development plan? You mentioned an action plan in an earlier post. Have you been offered support to achieve these goals?

 

Sorry for all the q's but just trying to get a picture of how much support you have been offered and accepted. If you haven't been supported by your line manager after any issues have been highlighted then you have been let down by the system that is supposed to be there to support you.

 

hi kitten1

i meant to say i recieved blood transfusion training and manual handling. no personal development plan. everyone also had their 6mthly appraisal, i did not.

[sadgirl]

I haven't read whole post but wanted say thanks to you and all nurses they were unbelievable when had chemo and still make me tearful when talk of the care, an have no idea where they get the caring nature from

 

hi boggey1

 

thats a really lovely thing to say. i really do hope u have recovered well and continue to do so . take care.

[Kitten1]

First things first - they had NO right to tell you to stop your antidepressants!! It is up to your gp and you what medication you need, and nobody else.

 

Why didn't you get an appraisal?

[sadgirl]

First things first - they had NO right to tell you to stop your antidepressants!! It is up to your gp and you what medication you need, and nobody else.

 

Why didn't you get an appraisal?

 

hi kitten1

i know , but i was feeling very vulnerable and wanted to do anything they said in order to keep my job i have no idea why i didnt get an appraisal i was too afraid to ask.

[Atlas01]

Hmn i'll say what i see

 

I'm surprised that this is being dealt with in the way it is, from what i've read your employer would have a much easier time if they dismissed you on the grounds of capability, putting patients at risk which in essence is what your are reported to have done is a very strong argument in terms of a capability dismissal. They could actually use the fact that you were unaware of your mistakes against you.

 

Trying to look at this from an impartial viewpoint we have 2 sides

 

1. Your are suffering from S&D, would you be covered under the DDA not sure as your post implies it has returned and therefore there was a period you were free from it, you obviously need support in both your own health and also undertaking your role. How much support is one question

 

2. From an employers viewpoint they have a worker who not only has unacceptable levels of sickness absence but is also due to their condition missing vital parts of their job, unless i've read wrong the employer did NOT tell you to drop your meds, they advised your to ask your gp if this was possible to which your gp agreed to, in addition and again if i read correctly the missed post op was not failing to record the obs but failing to undertake them full stop.

 

Where the gross misconduct comes from i'm not sure (unlees it's under a serious h&s breach) but this may be the way they operate their policy, as i said capability is a much clearer knife to stick you with in my view.

 

I see the following possibilities

 

1. You manage to fight them and show there was a sufficient lack of training and/or support leading up to the events. My note of caution here is i have represented many people suffering S&D and when it comes to getting their hands dirty in an employment fight for their job non of them were capable of doing what they needed to due to the condition. If i wasn't sucessful myself most walked before they were pushed.

 

2. You are dismissed on the grounds of capability/disciplinary, again i think without the evidence of a lack of support you will find this to be a fair dismissal,

 

3. You manage to negotiate a dismissal on medical grounds, this in the long run at least helps with interviews and the job centre

 

If your lucky you'll be given a final chance, if not i'd be going for option 3.

 

Sorry to be blunt but i prefer what you need to hear above what you want to hear.

 

It may also be the best thing in the long run no matter how that sounds, what happens if you return and make a mistake that costs a patient their life, bottom line is your employer will see you as nothing other than a liability, the question you should ask yourself is "if i return can i be confident my condition will not cause anymore mistakes" if the answer to that is no your only prolonging the inevitable.

[Bigredbus]

Hi 'sadgirl',

 

The incident for which you have been suspended for occured well over two months ago, and despite its relative gravity, management did not suspend you on the day, or over the three following days you have been working. If, and I say if, the incident was of a serious nature, a reasonable employer would have taken steps to suspend you and investigate the incident within a reasonable timeframe. Instead, they have waited over two months before suspending you, over the phone, pretending they were waiting for you to get better... Should your case reach a tribunal, the first question the panel would put to the defence would be why they waited that long before suspending you and investigate the incident, if such incident was deemed serious? They may well have waived their right to discipline you over that incident, unless some sort of investaigation has taken place just after the incident. I remember you stating that the incident has been reported on the day it occured! Threfore, it is only reasonable to assume that management was aware of it and reasonable to assume that they had time to suspend you, should had it been deemed necessary.

 

Now, if they decide to go down the route of capability, it is a long and stringent process, and more so if such stress and its effects have been brought on by work conditions.

[sadgirl]

Hmn i'll say what i see

 

I'm surprised that this is being dealt with in the way it is, from what i've read your employer would have a much easier time if they dismissed you on the grounds of capability, putting patients at risk which in essence is what your are reported to have done is a very strong argument in terms of a capability dismissal. They could actually use the fact that you were unaware of your mistakes against you.

 

Trying to look at this from an impartial viewpoint we have 2 sides

 

1. Your are suffering from S&D, would you be covered under the DDA not sure as your post implies it has returned and therefore there was a period you were free from it, you obviously need support in both your own health and also undertaking your role. How much support is one question

 

2. From an employers viewpoint they have a worker who not only has unacceptable levels of sickness absence but is also due to their condition missing vital parts of their job, unless i've read wrong the employer did NOT tell you to drop your meds, they advised your to ask your gp if this was possible to which your gp agreed to, in addition and again if i read correctly the missed post op was not failing to record the obs but failing to undertake them full stop.

 

Where the gross misconduct comes from i'm not sure (unlees it's under a serious h&s breach) but this may be the way they operate their policy, as i said capability is a much clearer knife to stick you with in my view.

 

I see the following possibilities

 

1. You manage to fight them and show there was a sufficient lack of training and/or support leading up to the events. My note of caution here is i have represented many people suffering S&D and when it comes to getting their hands dirty in an employment fight for their job non of them were capable of doing what they needed to due to the condition. If i wasn't sucessful myself most walked before they were pushed.

 

2. You are dismissed on the grounds of capability/disciplinary, again i think without the evidence of a lack of support you will find this to be a fair dismissal,

 

3. You manage to negotiate a dismissal on medical grounds, this in the long run at least helps with interviews and the job centre

 

If your lucky you'll be given a final chance, if not i'd be going for option 3.

 

Sorry to be blunt but i prefer what you need to hear above what you want to hear.

 

It may also be the best thing in the long run no matter how that sounds, what happens if you return and make a mistake that costs a patient their life, bottom line is your employer will see you as nothing other than a liability, the question you should ask yourself is "if i return can i be confident my condition will not cause anymore mistakes" if the answer to that is no your only prolonging the inevitable.

 

 

 

hi atlas,

i apreciate ur straight talkin. due to this situation i realise i will never be sure if i am safe to practice therefore i will not be persuing any nursing jobs in the future. i just want to get out of this with a reference so i can get any job one of course that has no responsibilities in life and death terms. i dont want to have to rely on welfare benefits i have never had to before and believe its only for people who are physically unable to work.

thank u for r advice i think i may try to negotiate dismissal on medical grounds and fingers crossed they go for it.

[sadgirl]

hi bigredbus,

thanks for all ur advice it has been of great help to me. i am goin to try negogiate my resignation right now without notice or pay for a decent reference.

will let u no how i get on.

[papasmurf1cx]

I doubt they will give a 'decent' reference. More than likely it will be non committal.

[Bigredbus]

hi bigredbus,

thanks for all ur advice it has been of great help to me. i am goin to try negogiate my resignation right now without notice or pay for a decent reference.

will let u no how i get on.

 

___________________

 

If you go down that route, make sure you have all of your points written down and although I agree with 'papasmurmcx1', you should negotiate the content of your reference anyway... Make sure you take detailed notes of that meeting!

[Nystagmite]

Before your resign, have you made sure that no reasonable adjustments can be made?

[Bigredbus]

'sadgirl',

 

Before you go any further, take time to read the following case: Cook vs. MSHK Limited [2009] EWCA Civ 624, CA

 

Employers should act rasonably speadily in taking disciplinary action - if they delay (even while an employee is taking time off for stress) without reserving their position, they may have waived the right to dismiss summarily...

 

I haven't seen a similar case for a while, so I couldn't find the right case quick enough... Do have a read!

[sadgirl]

hi to all who advised me ,

i have now recieved a letter from my employer stating that they are now commencing a disciplinary investigation. they will be sending me to occupational health to see if i am fit to participate and asking my GP , in the meantime the investigation will go ahead.

however they say in the letter that the disciplinary procedure has not yet been invoked, can anyone tell me what this means?

 

i have contacted my union and they are going to help me, but its difficult to know how much they can really do. would i be wiser to get a solicitor involved who specialises in employment law?

[Kitten1]

As far as I'm aware, they need to investigate before they can say it is a disciplinary matter if you see what I mean?

[sadgirl]

As far as I'm aware, they need to investigate before they can say it is a disciplinary matter if you see what I mean?

 

hi kitten,

do you mean its a nice way of saying will will fire you but we have to go through procedures to do so.

[mariefab]

I think it's possible that they are back-pedalling a little in an attempt to avoid potentially handing you a disability discrimination claim tied up in a big red bow.

They probably hope that the occupational therapist will say that you are fit to participate with their disciplinary procedures and that your depression does not qualify as a disability under the Equality Act.

I suggest that you have a look at the Act below (particularly section 6 and Schedule 1) then visit your GP to see whether he/she would support the idea that your depression qualifies as a disability. If so, ask him/her to write a letter saying so for the occupational therapist.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents

[papasmurf1cx]

I believe you are protected under the Act because you have had it for so long and / or it has the potential to reoccur (12 months is quoted). The criteria for a disability to qualify under the Act is that it must affect activities of daily living eg toileting, concentration, mobility etc. The OP's condition obviously has affected her concentration / memory and she has become so ill she has gone off sick. Work is an activity of daily living which is obviously being affected.

 

It is good to have doctors on board, but beware they are not trained in the law so may say the wrong thing and then that could be detrimental. If you have an issue with the hospital OH doctor, who would be trained in the law, ask to see another OH doctor not employed by your Trust. They normally have mutual arrangements with another Trust. At least then you can have some confidence that local politics do not become involved.