Cap1 & CCA return

[MAGDA]

Thank you so much, Magda.

 

I'll word it as you have suggested, and tip your scales.

 

Daniella

 

hope it work out ok for you:)

 

Magda

[r&b]

this thread had the 'legals' view on this type of thing if its of any help:

 

Suggested letter where the claimant fails to comply with Court Orders - The Consumer Forums

[enoughisenough]

Hi

 

can a default notice be issued on the very day a first missed payment occurs? Ta.

[andrew1]

No, don't think so EIE..got to be 2 I think

[Artie44]

The 2 missed payments thing could be important for me. I got a DN dated three days after the first missed payment. Two weeks later they terminated the agreement and are demanding the balance paid in full. Please can someone give a definitive answer, are a minimum of 2 missed payments a statutory requirement for the issue of a valid DN?

[car2403]

Hi

 

can a default notice be issued on the very day a first missed payment occurs? Ta.

 

The 2 missed payments thing could be important for me. I got a DN dated three days after the first missed payment. Two weeks later they terminated the agreement and are demanding the balance paid in full. Please can someone give a definitive answer, are a minimum of 2 missed payments a statutory requirement for the issue of a valid DN?

 

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/detailed_specialist_guides/default_tgn_version_v3%20%20doc.pdf

 

The definition of a default

9 A ‘default’ can be said to occur as soon as a borrower fails to meet the terms of their credit arrangement. However, adopting this definition for credit referencing purposes would create difficulties since it is accepted that not all these defaults should be reported, for example, where weekly payments are late but are quickly remedied.

 

The term ‘default’, when recorded on a credit reference file should be used to refer to a situation when "the lender in a standard business relationship with the individual decides the relationship has broken down"

 

11 Time framework

Although there will be some flexibility in the definition of a breakdown, we believe there should be general rules for the minimum period of arrears which should exist before a default can be filed. Equally there should be a maximum period after which, if anything is to be recorded with a credit reference agency, a default must be filed. The following are in line with the practices currently adopted by most lenders.

• Accounts should not be routinely filed as being in default where full payments or those due under a rescheduled agreement are fewer than three consecutive months in arrears.

• Accounts should normally be filed as being in default where those payments due have not been received for six months.

[enoughisenough]

Sorry Chris

 

but could you quote the source so I can give it to these barstewards ? Thanks. Is it cca 1974 or 2006? Also which section. Sorry for the style of this reply. Typing on a mobile!

[enoughisenough]

I'm also beginning to think that what chris has just posted sounds very much like OFT stuff. Don't worry about responding yet chris I'll have a dig around myself when I finally get home. Big up for the splendid work you do. A true CAG hero.

 

Keep the faith. EiE.

[car2403]

Sorry Chris

 

but could you quote the source so I can give it to these barstewards ? Thanks. Is it cca 1974 or 2006? Also which section. Sorry for the style of this reply. Typing on a mobile!

 

The link is in the post above - it's technical guidance on filing defaults with credit reference agencies for data controllers

[enoughisenough]

Sorry Car

 

messages crossed!

[Artie44]

The link is in the post above - it's technical guidance on filing defaults with credit reference agencies for data controllers

 

I was advised by national Debtline to offer a token reduced payment of £1 a month because of severe financial difficulties. That is probably why the creditor issued a DN after one usual missed payment. The termination was exactly 30 days after the missed payment. They demand the full balance within 14 days and they will register the default with credit agencies if I fail to make acceptable repayment proposals within 28 days. Another letter in the same post agreed to accept the £1 payment for six months.

 

I am sooo confused by this and not sure how best to respond. Is the ISO technical guidance purely a guideline with no force in law?

 

Hope I'm not hijacking, Should I start my own post on this topic?

[car2403]

I was advised by national Debtline to offer a token reduced payment of £1 a month because of severe financial difficulties. That is probably why the creditor issued a DN after one usual missed payment. The termination was exactly 30 days after the missed payment. They demand the full balance within 14 days and they will register the default with credit agencies if I fail to make acceptable repayment proposals within 28 days. Another letter in the same post agreed to accept the £1 payment for six months.

 

I am sooo confused by this and not sure how best to respond. Is the ISO technical guidance purely a guideline with no force in law?

 

Hope I'm not hijacking, Should I start my own post on this topic?

 

Yes.

 

The ICO opinion is very pursuasive when it comes to Judges determining whether a data controller has breached the DPA requirements. They would have serious difficulities arguing against the ICO's generally accepted guidance.

[Wilma Shoozfit]

Morning everyone -

I'm going back to the very first post on this thread regarding Section 85, New credit tokens.. I've asked this on another thread but got no reply so I'd appreciate any opinion.

 

I know that credit card companies can issue different card numbers on an account and do so when cards are lost or stolen. So you can have any number of different card numbers on the one account.

 

According to data printout I recieved, in 2007 credit card co. closed original account opened in 2003, and transferred balance to new account using old application form for verification. Reason stated on printout was to prevent fraud ( card was stolen).

 

Previously 2 cards were lost in the post but the replacements were both issued on the original 2003 account, so this argues against their logic of for closing the account when the 3rd card was stolen.

 

Am I correct in saying that when they closed the account in 2007 they should have obtained a new credit agreement from me as per Section 85?

 

CHeers

Wils

[car2403]

Morning everyone -

I'm going back to the very first post on this thread regarding Section 85, New credit tokens.. I've asked this on another thread but got no reply so I'd appreciate any opinion.

 

I know that credit card companies can issue different card numbers on an account and do so when cards are lost or stolen. So you can have any number of different card numbers on the one account.

 

According to data printout I recieved, in 2007 credit card co. closed original account opened in 2003, and transferred balance to new account using old application form for verification. Reason stated on printout was to prevent fraud ( card was stolen).

 

Previously 2 cards were lost in the post but the replacements were both issued on the original 2003 account, so this argues against their logic of for closing the account when the 3rd card was stolen.

 

Am I correct in saying that when they closed the account in 2007 they should have obtained a new credit agreement from me as per Section 85?

 

CHeers

Wils

 

Ok, to be clear here, the agreement number and the credit token number (the number on the credit card) are different. The agreement number should remain the same throughout the life of the agreement. The credit token number will change when they issue a new one.

 

In order to comply with s.85, they must send a copy of the fully executed agreement along with any new credit token, including T&C's. If they don't they are in default until they do so. If they don't have a fully executed agreement, for whatever reason, they will always be in default.

[Wilma Shoozfit]

Many thanks for coming back to me Car.

 

Their printouts definately confirm that the original account was closed and balance transferred to another account. There are two separate account numbers - first opened 2003, second in 2007.

 

I know I'm a pain and I'm sneaking into DPA now but if I can just follow this through with another question. If the original account is closed - and there's no agreement for the new account - can they use my consent given in the application form in 2003 to process my DATA on the second account or does consent for processing remain with the original account only? (ie 2003 a/c would show on CRA's as closed and nil balance from 2007 onwards)

 

I ask because they have been processing incorrect balances throughout the life of the second account due to cancelled PPI (proof of cancellation in their printouts) I'm looking to establish that not only is the DATA incorrect, but they are doing it without my consent? The account eventually went over the limit which it never would have done if they'd cancelled PPI as per instruction and they have registered adverse credit markers on my credit file.

 

Trying to get my head around this as I'm not quite sure what angle to approach resolution of my dispute with them and they have now given me 7 days to pay the balance in full (that deadline has passed) and are threatening court action.

 

ICO said they will look at the PPI/over credit limit reporting but can't rule on the credit agreement- so who do I go to about the lack of credit agreement? Financial Ombudsman or OFT. Trading Standards don't want to know, they say it's outside their remit and solicitors will give me 1 hour free and then want £150.00:eek: an hour if I go down the court route.

 

Cheers

Wils

[sunray001]

Hi,

If a bank informs you that they will probably be unable to find your CCA because they only have to keep documents for 6 years, and it may have been destroyed, what is the legal position?

 

regards

 

sunray001

[r&b]

Hi,

If a bank informs you that they will probably be unable to find your CCA because they only have to keep documents for 6 years, and it may have been destroyed, what is the legal position?

 

regards

 

sunray001

 

the 6 years is from termination not inception of the account.

[sunray001]

Hi,

So if the bank states in writing that they cannot find it because it has probably been destroyed, what is the legal position?

 

regards

 

sunray

[r&b]

they will struggle to enforce it in court i would hazard.

[alisindebt]

Hi,

If a bank informs you that they will probably be unable to find your CCA because they only have to keep documents for 6 years, and it may have been destroyed, what is the legal position?

 

regards

 

sunray001

 

I had a similar experience where they could not find the original CCA, simply because they did not keep records that long. They wrote to confirm that they were closing the account and would take no further action, which saved me just over ten thousand pounds-not bad eh?

 

Technically the debt still exists, but they cannot take enforcement procedures in a county court without a true copy of the original CCA being kept on file. However, I have heard of occasions in such cases when they send a DCA after the debt, in which case all you have to do is say them, "Uncollectable" each time they write or call and they soon get the message.

 

It is also unlawful for a DCA to attempt to collect on an account previously disputed with the OC (original creditor). Therefore I suggest that you immediately put the account into dispute, that stops any future DCA attempts to collect.

[vint1954]

Hi,

So if the bank states in writing that they cannot find it because it has probably been destroyed, what is the legal position?

 

regards

 

sunray

They are daft and being economical with the truth.

 

They need to keep all documents for 6 years after the closure of an account, for money laundering regs.

 

Do you think a Mortgage company would behave this way.

 

If they have shredded your agreement, ask them to confirm it in writing. If they do, wave bye bye.

[vint1954]

I had a similar experience where they could not find the original CCA, simply because they did not keep records that long. They wrote to confirm that they were closing the account and would take no further action, which saved me just over ten thousand pounds-not bad eh?

 

Technically the debt still exists, but they cannot take enforcement procedures in a county court without a true copy of the original CCA being kept on file. However, I have heard of occasions in such cases when they send a DCA after the debt, in which case all you have to do is say them, "Uncollectable" each time they write or call and they soon get the message.

 

It is also unlawful for a DCA to attempt to collect on an account previously disputed with the OC (original creditor). Therefore I suggest that you immediately put the account into dispute, that stops any future DCA attempts to collect.

And, no signature on an agreement, then not able to handle your Data.

 

Which bank was this.

[MAGDA]

I had a similar experience where they could not find the original CCA, simply because they did not keep records that long. They wrote to confirm that they were closing the account and would take no further action, which saved me just over ten thousand pounds-not bad eh?

 

 

Always very nice when that happens:D

 

Magda

[alisindebt]

Yes and to cap it all, when I got my SARS package from them, it also contained a notice of assignment in which low life (sorry, typo), Lowell's had also purchased the debt from Scabby Abbey/MBNA.

 

Would you believe it, the upstanding Abbey National (it was a respected building society when I was a lad) shafted the good people at Lowell's, their own customer?

 

Surely not-what is this world coming to?

[vint1954]

Yes, we all used to think that the banks were honorable institutions and to be fair, I think they were. Business was done on a handshake over lunch, and the Bank Managers honored it.

 

The banks are a different breed now. The lunatics have taken over the assylum.

 

Just think, debt goes from Abbey National to Abbey, to MBNA and on to goodness knows how many daebt purchasers.

 

I beleive it used to be called, taking in each others washing. The merry go round will eventually have to stop, then wait for the bang. They cannot keep parcelling up debt and loans, selling on and on, and hope that it all comes out in the wash. The credit crunch is finally bringing their game to an end.