Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • The case against the US-based ride-hailing giant is being brought on behalf of over 10,800 drivers.View the full article
    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
    • Makers of insect-based animal feed hope to be able to compete with soybeans on price.View the full article
    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Harrison v Black Horse


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 3769 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Anyone know when the judgement will be handed down? Feels like I've been waiting for ages now...

You and me both! I believe it is due any day now, just awaiting the Judges' return from Summer Leave.

If it's the commission issue you are dealing with, I am also awaiting case law that favours Hurstanger over Harrison.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Before THE MASTER OF THE ROLLS LORD JUSTICE PATTEN and LORD JUSTICE TOMLINSONWednesday, 12th October, 2011 At 9:45am FOR JUDGMENT APPEAL From The Queen's Bench Division FINAL DECISIONSA3/2010/2996 Harrison & anr -v- Black Horse Ltd. Appeal of Claimants from the order of His Honour Judge Waksman QC, dated 1st December 2010, filed 22nd December 2010.We await with baited breath...

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Ech...I feel for the Harrisons, I don't think ATE insurance covers Court of Appeal hearings. I just wonder if they were led on by a Barrister who just saw a chance to make a name for himself.Reckon they will appeal? The only place to go now is the House of Lords, and they seem to favour finance companies. Remember the bank charges case...?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think its important to bear in mind the facts in this case. Black Horse have time and again been able to show evidence that the PPi was fully explained and agreed by the Harrisons. Many creditors have no such evidence.

Please overlook my typos and spelling mistakes, sometimes my fingers arent in sync with my brain :)

I am just a consumer and have no legal training. My posts are opinion only, based on my own limited experience. If in doubt you should seek legal advice from a qualified practitioner.

 

Activ Kapital - Disputed £4,000.00 - 04/04/2011 Settled! WON!

HSBC Current Account - Defaulted for £200.00 Charges. - 19/05/2011 Charges Refunded Default Removed! WON!

HSBC Loan Account - £16,000.00 Unsecured Loan - 05/07/2011 Disputed No Further Contact WON! (for Now)

Barclaycard Account - Disputed account and £1500.00 Charges. - 18/07/2011 Charges Refunded! WON!

London Scottisht - Disputed account and Charges. £25,000.00 - 06/2011 Balance reduced by 95% WON!

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...
just some furher info re the Harrison v Black Horse. harrisons given permission to appeal.

 

http://www.shoosmiths.co.uk/news/4064.asp

Thank you very much for posting that :oops:

 

So, loosely speaking, the Supreme Court have realised that, even though the law was changed to assist the consumer in their fight against unscrupulous lenders, the realisation is that the lower courts will generally ignore the principles of S.140 and go out of their way to find in favour of the lenders.

 

I'm sure the words 'Harrison', 'Supreme Court', 'Permission' and 'Unfair Relationship' will be well utilised in a court near me very soon :lol:

Link to post
Share on other sites

as you say, it does look promising from what shoos say. hopefully it will turn out in favour.

 

are you in court soon?

Link to post
Share on other sites

as you say, it does look promising from what shoos say. hopefully it will turn out in favour.

 

are you in court soon?

Well it's certainly bought a smile to my face this evening :-) It is a staggering lengthy & complicated story but yes, I will soon be back in court. To cut an extremely long story court I took welcome to court on unfair relationship justified by many reasons, on the day of the first trial they changed their story from their submitted defence and sprung Harrison on me. The DJ allowed them to do this and it was deemed that the relationship was not unfair, I got suitably cross at the injustice and appealed to the High Court. I was granted permission and won the appeal because the DJ had failed to adhere to the statutory regime governing consumer credit and the unfair relationships provisions, it has now been remitted back to County Court for them to "think again".

Needless to say the other side are not pleased with me :oops: They still keep trying to use Harrison, even though it's not relevant and a Lord Justice told them that causation is not a defence. Still, it's made me smile that the Harrison's have been granted permission as they've done nothing but harp on about it for the last year and one of their last statements refers to an "important new development". That was long lived then eh?!! :madgrin:

So funny :lol:

A few short weeks and the final remit will be upon us. Following my success in High Court and now this with the Harrisons, it'll certainly be a very interesting final day in court wink.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

hi

well done for winning your appeal. no mean feat.

glad that the posted info brought a smile. as you said, the SC obviously thought that there are things that may be wrong that need to be considered properly and corrected. hopefully the appeal will succeed.

Edited by Ford
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...
Can anyone tell me where I can find Judge Waksmans ruling on secret commission being a form of bribe

 

Thank you

I think you may be referring to Justice Tuckey's judgment in Wilson v Hurstanger you can find that HERE although I would add that things are a helluva lot more complicated than that these days. There is a conflicting judgment which is often relied upon by creditors in the case of Harrison v Black Horse although this has now been granted permission to appeal in the Supreme Court.

 

It appears there are many cases based on secret commission, PPI and other similar issues where there have been applications made for a stay of proceedings pending the decision of the Supreme Court in this case. There is a very recent High Court judgment by Waksman which allows such stays and is binding on the lower courts, HERE

 

In my personal opinion I believe that any cases which encompass any of the issues similar to Harrison and the Unfair Relationship provisions would be better off stayed until the Supreme Court hands down its judgment early next year. But that is solely my opinion!

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

The latest in the Harrison & Harrison v Black Horse Limited saga..

 

http://www.credittoday.co.uk/article/14309/online-news/mis-sold-ppi-appeal-fails-to-reach-supreme-court

 

Lord Justice Tomlinson in the Court of Appeal ruled that a broker selling PPI products is under no obligation to advise a consumer that the same cover is available more cheaply through another provider.

 

The withdrawal of the appeal also means that any claim made in the future against a lender or intermediary alleging that PPI was expensive or overly costly at the time of purchase would fail, according to legal practice Squire Sanders.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?363714

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

So what is the point of the FSA laying down rules and regulations if they are to be overturned !!

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

I think the last on it.

 

It seems he won at last do not think the banks fancied a Supreme Court showdown.

 

Who knows the position if he really won given costs of £2.5M.

 

http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWHC/Costs/2013/B28.html&query=harrison&method=boolean

Edited by GuidoT

If I have been helpful please click on my star and add a comment.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I'm confused. The way I read it, the Harrison's lost. They were sanctioned by a lower court for failing to notify the other party as required regarding the CFA. They appealed and requested relief from the sanction, which was denied. Have I missed something obvious?

Please overlook my typos and spelling mistakes, sometimes my fingers arent in sync with my brain :)

I am just a consumer and have no legal training. My posts are opinion only, based on my own limited experience. If in doubt you should seek legal advice from a qualified practitioner.

 

Activ Kapital - Disputed £4,000.00 - 04/04/2011 Settled! WON!

HSBC Current Account - Defaulted for £200.00 Charges. - 19/05/2011 Charges Refunded Default Removed! WON!

HSBC Loan Account - £16,000.00 Unsecured Loan - 05/07/2011 Disputed No Further Contact WON! (for Now)

Barclaycard Account - Disputed account and £1500.00 Charges. - 18/07/2011 Charges Refunded! WON!

London Scottisht - Disputed account and Charges. £25,000.00 - 06/2011 Balance reduced by 95% WON!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Depends on what is considered a 'win', for the individuals and counsel in the case I'd say a resounding yes. They got the claimed monies [by consent], but let themselves down slightly on costs and success uplift in the appeal. Commercially the potential future 'win' for BH and height of hurdle for us mere mortals to overcome is probably far greater.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...