New member big problems

[Dave44]

Hi I'm, like many others, new to this so not sure if I should post my problem here or on the BoS thread but here goes.

Several years ago I took out a loan with the Bank of Scotland which was paid by D.D.each month without fail until about the middle of 2004 when, due to being late paying in money to the account for the second time in six months, my bank refused payment of the D.D. and stopped future D.D.'s to the BoS. This was no problem I just continued to pay using Internet banking. During 2005 everything was not good work wise and I missed some payments but some months when I was able I paid a double amount (two months payments). To cut a long story short - Christmas - no money - no payments - letter from Blair,Oliver and Scott requesting payment of total amount £4764.99 followed by a phone call two days later. I explained that I could not pay the whole amount and offered £100 per month and was told this was not enough. Further phone calls asking why I hadn't paid. Told them I didn't know who to pay it too. July received letter with D.D slip attached. In further phone calls from them I asked for a payment book so I could pay cash in at a bank then in a further phone call during August the person told me they would accept an offer in total settlement and what could I pay immediately. I offered £1000 to which she replied "this is not enough, have a rethink and I will phone you back this evening" Needles to say I never received a follow up call. Next letter received giving formal notice of instruction by their client to begin court proceedings without delay unless I pay in full by the 9th September.

Now have received letter from Legal & Trade saying Capital Bank have issued my file to them with instructions to recover the debt. I also received a phone call from L & T requesting immediate payment. I explained that I didn't have £4000 and that I had made an offer to B,O & S. She told me that I now had to deal with them, so I offered £100. She then gave me bank account details and told me to pay the £100 today and then to call her. When I asked for her name she would only give her christian name.

Have read through much of the site but still not clear what to do next as I don't know if Blair, Oliver & Scott have bought the debt from the B.O.S. Also they refer to the Bank of Scotland while Legal & Trade refer to Capital Bank. Who should I request a copy of the agreement from? I am also not sure that I have had a default notice as I don't remember ever seeing one. Can I still request this from the B.o.S and most important of all am I likely to be too late with all this and find myself in court?

Any advice greatly appreciated

Dave44

[jimfishybob]

Ok. Firstly, don't panic. They are trying to bully you into paying up.

 

Secondly, DO NOT DISCUSS THIS FURTHER ON THE PHONE.

 

Thirdly, write to them tommorow,(Legal and Trade), under the consumer credit act using this template, (amend it to suit your circumstances):-

 

The Loan Company

Company House,

Church Street,

Newtown,

Kent,

R1 7HG

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Account/Reference Number 4563210025897412

 

With reference to the above agreement, I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of this credit agreement. While I do acknowledge a debt to Bank of Scotland, recent events lead me to believe there may be charges levied on the account which contravene The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999. As such, the amount is now in dispute.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79), I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

 

I understand a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

Further, under the circumstances, I am now formally requesting that all future correspondence be in writing only. If you continue to call your actions may constitute a criminal offence under section 127(2) of the Communications Act 2003 and your methods may prove contrary to section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970. I will report such calls to the relevant authorities.

 

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

Mr A N Other

 

Send it recorded delivery and keep copies of all correspondence from here on in, (including the recorded delivery slips you get). Also, remember to put a postal order/cheque in with the letter for £1.

 

We'll see what kind of response you get.

[jimfishybob]

P.S. Don't worry about court proceedings. If they are stoopid enough to take it to court they will have to show why they refused a perfectly reasonable offer of payment, (they know this and they also know that in doing so they would be unlikely to get the result they want. This is likely the reason why it hasn't gone to court yet). There is another approach to this if you are still paying interest but we'll take it one step at a time.

[Dave44]

Thanks Jimfishybob

 

Will get to it now and post by special delivery later as I believe this is more reliable than recorded delivery.

Thought I was the only one daft enough to be up at this time

[Dave44]

Just thought - Legal & trade say Capital Bank not Bank of Scotland therefore in my letter sould I say I acknowledge debt to Capital Bank and not Bank of Scotland as in your template ?

 

Thanks again - a bit less worried Dave44

[jimfishybob]

No, If your original loan was with Bank of Scotland then you should only acknowledge the debt to them.

[bfb]

both Blair Oliver and Scott and Capital Bank are part of bank of Scotland

the Blair Oliver and Scott are their in house debt collectors

 

DO nothing by telephone make sure everything is in writing

[Dave44]

Since sending a letter on the 21/09/06 requesting a copy of the Credit Agreement and that all communication was in writing I have again today had another phone call. As the person wouldn't say anything untill I gave my address I hung up on her.

I have now written the following letter. Is this all I need to do at this stage?

 

 

Legal & Trade Collections Ltd.

33.34 Winckley Square

Preston

PR1 3EL 29th September 2006

Dear Sir/Madam

Re: Account/Reference No. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Further to my letter dated 21st September and sent by Special delivery to yourselves in which I made a formal request for all future correspondence to be in writing.

I have today received yet another telephone call from your employee called Ann.

I would be obliged therefore if you would communicate my request to your staff as should you continue to call your actions may constitute a criminal offence under section 127(2) of the communications Act 2003 and your methods may prove contrary to section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970. I will therefore report all further calls to the relevant authorities.

 

Yours faithfully

[jimfishybob]

It should do the job, I would ask that they remove your phone number from their records so as to ensure they are complying with your request.

[Dave44]

Thanks jimfishybob have now added this to letter will post special delivery tororrow.

Probably everyone but me knew but I was told today that you can check on the Post Office web site when your special delivery was delivered. So may pay to print confirmation of delivery for possible future use.

[jimfishybob]

Absolutely.

[jimfishybob]

Sorry. Messed up me post.

[Dave44]

Since sending the letters I have received several phone calls. Yesterday I received a call from 01772220126 the person asked me to confirm my address as he wanted to discus a personal matter. I asked who wanted my address and he said "Preston Call Centre" so I said "No what company wants it. He wouldn't tell me so I said I couldn,t give out my address without knowing who wanted it. He asked if this was my reply so I said yes and he hung up.

This morning (Wed.) I received two calls from 01772227600 but the phone only rang two or three times and then stopped before I could answer. This afternoon I received another call from the same 7600 number and I managed to answer it. Again asked for my address so I asked who wanted it. She said Preston Call Centre. I told her that this call was illegal as I had sent two letters requesting all communication to be in writing. She said that it wasn't illegal and that she was looking for my letter. She then asked if this was my answer and when I tolder her it was she hung up.

The question is, my letters were to Legal & General so should I now send a letter to Preston Call Centre if I can find their address. Is this just a way for L & G to get round my letters to them?

Hope someone can help

Dave

[jimfishybob]

I am drunk, (and I lost money at my poker night), so bear with me.

 

Make sure you log all the dates and times of calls, this will help if you eventually have to go before a judge.

 

It would seem that they are pushing their luck and hoping you'll crack. You won't, you have done nothing wrong, up to press.

 

What date did they recieve the letter? It's possible it won't have filtered through to the relevant departments yet. We'll have to give them time to distribute your request. If after 10 days, (sounds like a reasonable time to me), you are still recieving calls a complaint to Trading Standards is in order.

 

Stick with doing what you are doing for now. If you recieve any written correspondence from them then let us know.

 

The alternative is to invite them to sue you, but this is possibly a discussion for another time.

[paddym]

dave look at the name Blair Oliver Scott = Bank Of Scotland !

If it gets too much just ring BT tell them your receiving nuisance calls get your number changed that way youll ensure they gotta contact you by letter !

[Dave44]

Thanks Jimfishybob, sorry you lost at poker better luck next time may be better to stay off the sauce. My letters were sent on the 21st and 29th. Sept. Have had another three calls today (all logged) third one left a message asking me to call back as matter was urgent. Is it possible Legal & Trade are using a call centre to get round my request not to ring? Have been unable to find an address for "The Preston Call Centre" so unable to write to them.

 

Paddym - can't change my telephone number as the ring on my company mobile.

[crusty git]

Dave

The preston call centre is a place - not a company. If you get caught and answer them request firmly to talk to the supervisor they may be able to understand the legal position and the consequences

 

Good luck

 

J

[Guest The Terminator]

Thanks Jimfishybob, sorry you lost at poker better luck next time may be better to stay off the sauce. My letters were sent on the 21st and 29th. Sept. Have had another three calls today (all logged) third one left a message asking me to call back as matter was urgent. Is it possible Legal & Trade are using a call centre to get round my request not to ring? Have been unable to find an address for "The Preston Call Centre" so unable to write to them.

 

Paddym - can't change my telephone number as the ring on my company mobile.

 

Dave you could also use the Protection from Harrassment Act (1997) Section 1.

 

Prohibition of harassment. 1. - (1) A person must not pursue a course of conduct-

• (a) which amounts to harassment of another, and

• (b) which he knows or ought to know amounts to harassment of the other.

(2) For the purposes of this section, the person whose course of conduct is in question ought to know that it amounts to harassment of another if a reasonable person in possession of the same information would think the course of conduct amounted to harassment of the other.

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to a course of conduct if the person who pursued it shows-

• (a) that it was pursued for the purpose of preventing or detecting crime,

• (b) that it was pursued under any enactment or rule of law or to comply with any condition or requirement imposed by any person under any enactment, or

• © that in the particular circumstances the pursuit of the course of conduct was reasonable.

Offence of harassment. 2. - (1) A person who pursues a course of conduct in breach of section 1 is guilty of an offence.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or both.

(3) In section 24(2) of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (arrestable offences), after paragraph (m) there is inserted-

• "(n) an offence under section 2 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 (harassment).".

Interpretation of this group of sections. 7. - (1) This section applies for the interpretation of sections 1 to 5.

(2) References to harassing a person include alarming the person or causing the person distress.

(3) A "course of conduct" must involve conduct on at least two occasions.

(4) "Conduct" includes speech.

 

The above S7 is how section 1 is interpratated so as the way the law stands after the second phone call they have committed a criminal offence.Oh and don't let the bas*ards grind you down.

[Dave44]

Thanks crust git, yes I gathered they were just a call centre but they must be ringing on behalf of a company so I requested that companies name which they refuse to give me.

I will ask for the superviser when they ring tomorrow as I'm sure they will and quote from the Protection from Harrasment Act.

Thanks Terminator I will print this off and have it with me when they ring 'cause they are certainly causing me distress phoning me at work,

[jimfishybob]

Dear Mr. Bank of Scotland,

 

Please find enclosed copies of correspondence between myself and (whoever you sent the letters to), all of which were sent recorded delivery.

Despite my written request that all future communication be in writing, the agency representing you repeatedly flouts their obligations and continues to call in a misleading and unclear manner.

Since sending my request dated xxxxx I have recieved no fewer than xx phone calls, (the times, dates and outcomes of which are listed seperately for your convenience).

As you are no doubt aware, OFT guidelines state that you are responsible for the behaviour and actions of any agencies representing you in the pursuit of debt collection.

Please accept this letter as final notice that any further calls will be both ignored and subsequently reported to the relevant authorities, including but not limited to Trading Standards, The Office of Fair Trading, and OFCOM.

To clarify, I will not discuss this matter further on the telephone. However, such calls WILL trigger complaints to the relevant statutory bodies.

I trust I have made myself clear on this matter and you will inform your representatives of the same. Should you be in any doubt as to your obligations I recommend consultation with your legal counsel.

 

Yours faithfully.

 

balh blah blah....

 

Only send this if you are prepared to follow up on the threats or else you will put yourself in a much weaker position.

[Dave44]

Since my last post several things have happened.

1) I've received over 28 phone calls on the mobile supplied by the company I work for.

2) The 12 days were up last Tuesday and I still haven't received a copy of the agreement.

3) I've received a letter from Legal & Trade

At the top of the letter it gives the amount of the debt and under this it states that the debt is to Capital Bank.

The rest of the letter goes on to say that I haven't kept up payments, if I don't bring this up to date I could face court action which would result in extra fees & costs. It also states that I have 72 hours to reply to this letter.

 

My questions are.

As they say the debt is to Capital Bank should I have sent my request for a copy of the agreement to Capital Bank and not, as I did to, Legal & Trade ?

 

 

With regards to the telephone calls do I just send another letter requesting all communication in writing ? I have sent two letters requesting this. The first with the request and £1 p.o. for a copy of the agreement and the second some 10 days later.

[ecobabe]

no you did right sending it to legal & trade. I had account with BOS and it went thru blair, oliver, scott and then to legal & trade. i cca'd L & T and still got phone calls. When they did speak to me they spoke over me and ignored my comments about the CCA, so next time they phoned I told them that the call was being recorded, they blustered about me not being allowed to do this (which you are) i simply said "I am and will continue to do so" i continued speaking and said that the debt was regulated under the consumer credit act 1974 and they had defaulted on my request and until they supplied the documents it was unenforceable. they were cheeky gits but i didn't get any more calls. Immediately after this I wrote to L & T and stated that they had defaulted on request etc and that they were breaching the OFT's guidelines. I also told them I was complaining to Bank of Scotland & OFT. at bottom of letter i put that I record all calls. I then wrote a letter of complaint to BOS saying that they had passed an account on when it was still in dispute and explained about L & T's conduct. I have never heard a peep from L & T since and am now in process of reclaiming all charges from BOS which are double what I owe them. I also got a grovelling letter of apology from BOS saying that they were very sorry and a lot more beside. so don't panic just stick to your guns, they even sent me letters saying letter before court action, but they are bullies.

[jimfishybob]

At this point, I would complain to the people who you said you would complian to.

[legalmick]

Legal and Trade's call centre is in preston so it is the same company.

 

Blair Oliver Scott is bank of scotlands in house debt collection agency and Capital Bank is also part of Bank of Scotland.

 

Not sure I understand what problem is as it appears you have made a perfectly reasonable offer to settle the debt. Legal and trade are a debt collection agency so why would they refuse to accept the £100 per month?

 

All of the above "delay tactics" that may tie the agency up in knots for a while but in the end you will still end up in the same position having to talk to someone on the end of the phone who will set up an arrangement on the account, whatever method of how you repay it. Sounds like you are sensible in that you are not trying to deny you owe the debt or even trying to find some loophole to desperately trying to avoid the debt therefore why not have another go and try and call them again. If the person on the end of the phone is a moran either hang up and call back until you get someone sensible. Goodluck!

[Dave44]

Have sent the following letter today by Special Delivery as this guarantees delivery by 1pm the next day.

 

 

Dear Mr Simon Williams

Re: Account/Reference No. 0xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Please find enclosed copies of my correspondence to your office. Both sent "Special Delivery."

As you are aware this account is now in dispute and I still await the documents requested.

In my letter dated 21st September I requested a copy of the agreement and enclosed a £1 postal order being the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. I also requested that all communication was in writing,

In the second letter dated 29th September I again requested that all communication was in writing.

Despite my written request that all future communication be in writing the agency representing you repeatedly flouts their obligations and continue to call.

Since sending my request dated 29th September I have received no fewer than 37 phone calls the time and date of which have been recorded for future use.

This type of debt collection method is contrary to the "Administration of Justice Act 1970" in that it is intended to cause alarm and distress to the recipient. I therefore require you to remove any telephone numbers you hold for me from your systems.

I would be obliged therefore if you would communicate my request to your staff as should you continue to call your actions may constitute a criminal offence under section 127(2) of the communications Act 2003 and your methods may prove contrary to section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970.

Please accept this letter as final notice that any further calls will be both ignored and subsequently reported to the relevant authorities, including but not limited to Trading Standards, The Office of Fair Trading and OFCOM.

 

* * *

I have already started writing my letters to Trading Standards and the Office of Fair Trading as I do not for one moment expect the calls will stop.

 

Thanks ecobabe and legalmick for your comments.

legalmick the reason I want a copy of the original agreement is because I believe additional charges have been added to the tune of about 25% of what they are now asking for. Having agreed £100 per month with Blair,O & S they said they would come back to me with an offer of full settlement. The next thing is phone calls from L & T saying that £100 per month was not enough etc. and a letter with a D.D. form attached. I have told them I will only pay by standing order or with a paying in book so I can pay cash at the bank.

 

I have answered two of their four calls today. The first time the phone only rang twice but I managed to answer just as the phone went down. The second time I answered but after a short silence the phone went dead on me.

 

I intend writing again to morrow to tell them they are in default. I see from reading on the site that others have requested a "deed of assignment" Should I have requested this when I requested the copy of the agreement? If so is it to late to request it now?