me vs black horse

[alibobsy]

Well got offer today on all but one of the loans-they have just ignored the earliest loan that I don't have a ref number for (and they failed to provide info for in the SAR request), this loan was only for £500 anyway so not too much of a loss.

 

However their total offer is around 4k lower than my calculations. They have given quite a bit of info and its the rolling over and early settlement of the PPI that seems to be the difference. On the earlier loans the differences seem small (and some in fact have slightly higher figures for their calcs), but its the final loan thats the biggest difference.

 

They seem to have done the roll over bit of the calc differently to the spreadsheets on here (or perhaps I miss understood how to do the calcs lol).

I kept working out how mush ppi rolled over into the next loan and then the next and so on so my final spreadsheet for loan "6" had some albeit small payments for old ppi from loan 1,2,3,4, and 4 and 5 as well as the PPI for that loan. The breakdown they sent just gives a figure against each refund for interest and payments overcharged because of earlier PPI and they have rolled over one amount on each loan as well.

 

The biggest difference seems to be on the last loan where we settled early my calcs seem to show a figure of ppi in the settled amount of almost twice what they say, in fact the PPI figure they say was paid from repayments (which is exactly the same as my calc) plus what they say was settled in the final early payment don't total the whole of the PPI figure charged?

Unless I am missing something regarding the settlement? Maybe some kind of refund of interest in the settlement means my calcs are wrong?

 

Anyone else had dealings with black horses calcs? If I could understand how their calc is done its fine.

 

Its tempting to take the money and run as its still a big amount to us, but I want to make sure its me whos wrong and that they are doing the calcs as they should and not undercutting us.

 

Ali x

[dx100uk]

did you workout what % of the settlement figure was for PPI first

before putting it in your SOC?

 

dx

[xboxer]

Hi Ali, I had the same problem working out their calculations all fine until the final loan and supposed rebate. I would of kept arguing for the balance to match my calculations but took their offer instead as it's going to get our new kitchen.

 

What percentage is their offer compared to your calculations? My final offer was about 87.5% of my calculations.

[alibobsy]

I used the guidence on here and worked out what percentage the PPi was. I also used the spreadsheet that works out how much of your PPI is left after a certain number of payments have been made and my figure is 1.5k higher. This then knocks on to the 8% interest and reduces that compared to my calcs. Overall the offer is around 8k and my calcs are 12k.

 

OH is leaning towards just taking it as he has been out of work for a while and has now decided to set up his own buisiness to try to get easning again so the money would be very useful, I just don't want them to get away with paying less than they should. TBH if I could understand how they get their figures and see how they justify the calcs I would accept it.

 

Will have a play around with the figures and see if I can work it out.

[dx100uk]

and did you workout what % the ppi was of your settlemetn and put that in the soc rather than the full settlemetn figure?

 

£4k is a big diff to 'forget about'

 

dx

[alibobsy]

I used the spreadsheet off here to work out how much of the ppi would be left at that point when we settled, but even doing it as a straight percentage, although slightly lower than my figure its still now where near as low as theirs.

 

The diff is around 1300 on the ppi and then 2k on the 8% interest.

 

I am now thinking iot may be that we got a big rebate because it was settled so early perhaps? We settled 27 months into an 84 month loan (how did we ever think that was a good idea?).

 

I am thinking if they do as the FOS suggest (and the way the other loan figures look it suggests this is how they did it) and restructured the loan maybe they then just worked out the difference between what the settlement was, and what it would have been without PPI. Maybe this would be a much lower figure?

 

Ali x

[alibobsy]

Even playing with some figures and comparing what the loan would have been without ppi to what it was with I cannot see how they have come to their figures.

 

Will keep fidling but think I will need to refer it back to them. Will try to see if I can see how their earlier loans cals work out and then use the method again rather than keep messing with the last set of figures-at least then if I knwo their method I can see if its a mistake lol.

 

Ali x

[dx100uk]

can you post up what they have sent for us to look at

 

 

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

.

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all figures and dates.

.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

.

.

dx

[alibobsy]

I am taking info from a number of documents as their SAR response was rubbish. Their offer sheet does not have any calcs just the figures.

Plus my scanner is playing up so it will be easier for me to gather the info and post for each loan what they said and what I know. But I really would appreciate any thoughts on their methods.

 

Ali x

[dx100uk]

mobile phone camera or digital camera?

 

dx

[alibobsy]

Ok Loan 1 no rollover on this

Their figures:

Paid in repayments £32.85 (yep this is correct 5 pays of £6.57 for the PPI)

Paid in final payment £40.38 (i got a figure of £41.98 but its near as damn it the same)-this then rolled into the next loan

8% interest £38.15 (I got £38.01 again as near as to be the same)

Loan was £700 plus £68.08 ppi total pays £74.10 (£6.57 for the ppi) 12 month term @31.8% apr

 

 

So all in all I agree with this one no problems.

 

Ali x

[alibobsy]

Right loan 2 and the first rollover.

Paid in repays £171.50 (14 pays of £12.25 so correct)

Paid in final pay £151.59 (no idea how they get this figure?)

excess bal & int (paid in repays) £31.02

excess bla & int (in final pay) £21.29

rolled onto next loan £136.88

total refund £202.52

8% £219.30

loan was £1600.00 plus £223.32 total pays £100.04 24 month term @31.8% apr

settlement pay £959.29 (and it shows settlement interest of £19.70 which then list as cleared on the statement)

I ended up with a ppi refund of £203.70 on the spreadsheet and 8% of £219.72 so again despite not following their methods we get the same results.

 

If I can just see their method and see it makes sense I will be happy lol.

Ali x

Edited April 27, 2012 by alibobsy

[alibobsy]

Loan 3

Paid in repays £161.33 (13 pays of £12.41 correct)

Paid in final pay £159.80

excess bal & int (in repays) £100.13

excess bal & int (in final pay) £89.89

rolled to next loan 249.69

total refund £261.46

8% £252.70

loan was £1500 plus £231.37 ppi total repays £96.81 25 month term @32.9% apr

settlement pay £1144.80 (and it shows settlement interest of £63.93 which then list as cleared on the statement)

I got figures of £255.97 then 8% £246.33- so again almost the same at least in the same ballpark.

 

Ali x

[alibobsy]

No camera and I have an old nokia that is just a phone I'm afraid.

 

Got to go out now but will post back later, any thoughts on their methods would be really useful tho.

 

Thanks

 

Ali x

[alibobsy]

Had a bit of a mess with figures over the weekend and think I may have worked this out.

 

Looking at the figures for the last loan and the different figures they have laid out it would appear that they have repaid any ppi instalments actually paid (which include the interest) in one figure. Then if I reconstruct the rest of the loan which because we paid it off only a third of the way through only contains 2/3 rds of the PPI pls the extra figure they add on for extra interest and balaance paid in the settlement because of the PPI I can see where their figure comes from. The rest of the difference from my original calcs is in the way they have done the rollover part of the PPI.

I feel I can see how they have got their figures and can see both their way and mine could be justified to the FOS-plus because of the dates black horse maintain this could not be looked at by the FOS anyway. Therefore to avoid a long possibly unfruitful wait and battle over who can look at it and how much is paid etc I am prepared to accept their calculations. Its still a massive amount of money to us just as we really need it. Plus we have a few other claims still ongoing so hopefully not the last we will win:-)

 

So I think I will chalk this up as a win and get the acceptance sent off shortly. Thanks to ev1 who helped and good luck to those who are still pursueing Black horse.

 

Just for info after having the first loan (the lastest and a stand alone loan) which would have come under the FOS accepted I pointed out in my claim letter regarding the rest of the loans that given that they had already upheld my complaint on that later loan and that our circumstances were virtually identical it would be unfair treatment not to uphold the other loans on the same basis-I mentioned the BCOS rules and the fact I was prepared to take it to cort if necessary. No way to know if this made any difference, but I supsect if you show you have taken the claim seriously and done some research maybe it pushes them to settle early?-Who knows lol.

 

Thanks guys

Ali x

[alibobsy]

Realised on this that they had completely ignored the ealiest loan and made no offer on it. I also think as some of the later loans were secured there may have been mort exit fees charged. So wrote and asked about both these. May be not alot extra (if any), but if your don't ask you don't get lol.

 

Ali x