tax exemption - battle

[dudixenia]

Hi All,

i have an ongoing battle (that has lasted 2 years now) with the DVLA.

The jist is....

I have a converted horsebox that was built before 01/01/1973 - having tried unsuccesfully to tax it in the historic vehicle class, i am now on track to take the DVLA to the county court.

 

They argue that my evidence (the only evidence exisiting for this vehicle) is not proof enough, therefore i must tax it.

 

I argue: they cannot dis prove my supporting evidence thats states it was built in 1971.

 

i thought i would attach my letter to Carole Evans n case anyone else finds it helpful.

 

I have been dealing with the Local office in Bristol for two years, and within this time they claim various mis-truths including: that my first contact was a year ago, with date marked emails to back this up, that they do not hold any electronic files, it is all hard copies in filing cabinets, and that i MUST purchase tax for this vehicle if my proof isnrt good enough for them....

 

what a load of rubbish i say, will keep you posted on my progress - letter

[rebel11]

Hi dud

 

Welcome to CAG

 

The guys will advise as soon as they are available.

[dx100uk]

cant read postage stamps

 

use:

 

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets

remove all pers info inc barcodes etc but leave all figures and dates.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

convert the image to pdf format.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

NB:you can set where it goes in the post by hitting insert inline.

the hit reply button

dx

[Raykay]

What evidence do you have? DVLA normally require the V5C showing that the vehicle was made or first registered before 1 January 1973. If you do not have a V5C, or if you think the age shown is incorrect, you will need to produce a dating certificate from a vehicle enthusiasts’ club or evidence from the vehicle manufacturer.

[dudixenia]

the date on the V5C changed when i bought it, previous owner's doc (that he returned) said 01/01/73

I have a datacard saying 1971 on it, and very little else.

I have been to THE vehicle enthusiasts/owners club for those with no owners club - this is a rare vehicle, so doesnt fit into the groups easily at all.

The head of the owners club cannot do me a dating certificate because apparently he gets fined if there is no evidence to back up his date (he has said he is willing to write an official letter stating he 'believes' it was built before 73) but that is all.

Sent Carol Evans a recorded letter asking for a reply within 5 working dates ahead of court action = NOTHING. It is now 7 days, and so i will pay my fee and take them to court.

[dudixenia]

Dear Carole Evans,

It is with great regret that I must contact you again with yet another complaint about the DVLA.

As I am sure you will note from your files, I have previously been in contact with you in the passed regarding some serious failings within the DVLA’s customer service department.

As in previous correspondence, I am writing on behalf of Mr U , who has severe difficulty with reading and writing.

Since June 2009, I have been trying to class a vehicle belonging to Mr Peel in the historic vehicle class

To give you an overview of my complaint, Approximately 2 years ago, I sent in a number of documents that the DVLA advised would be needed to make an application to re-classify this vehicle's tax status.

Having sent in this information, I was then passed around various members of staff, having to explain the problem time and time again. I then was asked to re-send the initial documents I sent in a further two times. This was because "although we have received some documents, they weren’t logged correctly and cannot be found. " this level or dis-organisation, I'm sure you will agree, is just not acceptable, especially from a government body.

I was finally told in writing that what I had sent would not be sufficient and that I would need to contact an owners club. Mr Peel’s vehicle didn’t have an owners club, and therefore he had to go to an owners club for vehicles with no owners club (details provided by DVLA Bristol)

Within this time period, I have tried to contact the DVLA in Bristol to explain the only evidence for the date of manufacture (needed to re-classify the vehicle as historic) was that which was sent in initially, that which they refused.

 

Once I explained this, they recommended Mr U bring in the vehicle in so they could inspect it.

Recommending Mr Peel to take an un-taxed vehicle 23 miles along the M4 to there office was simply ludicrous, and when I suggested this they offered an even more un-reasonable solution: to bring the vehicle in on a low-loader at almighty cost to the owner.

This simply was not financially possible, or viable, and therefore was not done.

It was then mentioned after more tireless conversations with the un-informed staff at the Bristol office, that “very occasionally” the DVLA will send people out to inspect vehicles. I said this would be the only suitable option, and they promised to contact me within the next 2 months with a date when an ‘inspector’ was in my geographical area. Needless to say this never happened.

On Tuesday 4th May 2011 I spoke to a very helpful lady called Noreen in the Swansea office, - she agreed it was a problem that the Bristol Local office should be able to deal with and passed me on to them, promising a call back within 2 hours.

As promised, I did indeed get a call back within 2 hours, by a Rob Newson. He was incredibly rude, sarcastic in his tone, totally un-helpful and un-sympathetic to the situation. He even tried again and again to talk when I was talking (a basic politeness one can and should expect of anyone. (Not least those working in the customer service departments)

After having a conversation that only served to antagonise both Mr Peel, and myself he agreed to pass it on to the office manager, and promised a call back within 2 hours.

The office manager Paul Edwards did indeed call back, and had a similar tone to that of Mr Newson. He was rude, unreasonable, un-helpful, and ultimately very un-professional.

You might also like to know, he told me a number of miss-truths during our conversation, and these include the following:

“Carole Evans is not the person to complain to about local offices complaints”, not true according to the website and ‘how to complain leaflet’.

“DVLA Local Office in Bristol holds no electronic files, only paper ones due to costs” I find this statements incredibly hard to believe, and am interested to hear the truth about how information is kept.

“This Case has only been going on since May 2010” easily dis-proved by my email correspondence of 18th May 2009 (see attached)

Miss-truths, making things so incredibly complicated in the hope that people will give up, being sarcastic, unhelpful and rude on the phone, promising contact within a certain amount of time, and not carrying out these promises. These are just some of the un-acceptable things that have happened whilst this case has been open and un-resolved.

Because of the fact it has taken two years I now write to you with a time limit for a full resolution with regards to this matter.

If I do not receive a written response from you either by post or email within 5 working days, I will contact the chief executive Noel Shanahan who might be interested in how things are being managed at a lower level.

If this case is not resolved within 10 working days of today’s date (4th May 2011) I will file an application to the county court to ensure this matter is dealt with professionally and promptly, I will do this with maximum publicity.

Vernon Cox is an Archivist and DVLA Liaison officer – and manages the Mercedes –Benz club. He has said after two years of research he is willing to write an official letter stating he believes the aforementioned vehicle was built before 01.01.73. However, he cannot write a dating certificate, as the evidence of when this vehicle was built is limited, and there is no evidence of the exact date of manufacture. He has exhausted all possible ways of obtaining evidence, and therefore I am left with what I started with.

If once reading this you arrange for this vehicle to be moved into the historic vehicle class (making it tax exempt) then I will ensure no contact is made with the chief executive about the matter, and also that no county court action takes place.

In the meantime, should you wish for any further information, please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Yours sincerely,

[Raykay]

What is the date of first registration on the V5C, was it declared new at first registration?

[dudixenia]

No not declared new at first registration...was made in Germany, but the manafacturers records dont go that far back.

DVLA claim first regsitration was 23.09.1973

This might be the case, but i know it was built in 71, and therefore it should be tax exempt.

I have written to Carol Evans, and now also to Jayne John (CEO pa), although Jayne John is on leave until mid JUNE! (Alright for some ;-))

anyway, look forward to hearing anyones suggestions.

Court looms, hopefully that will be sure to conclude this 2 year farce!

[Raykay]

Have you made enquiries of DVLA in respect of the vehicle? [Form V888] Date of import, previous registration records etc. There may be something on the record, or you could follow up, showing that is was built before 1973.

[Conniff]

What has the horsebox been converted into ??

 

the date on the V5C changed when i bought it, previous owner's doc (that he returned) said 01/01/73

That date would be fine as the regs say "

 

 

"

up to and including 7 January 1973, we will let you register it as a historic vehicle, based on the assumption that the vehicle would have been made in the previous year"

Edited May 14, 2011 by Conniff

[dudixenia]

Yes that would be fine, if i had that document, but the previous reg doc was sent back to infirm them of the new keeper! then a new V5C arrived with a new date of first registration: 23/09/73

most frustrating, but a usual DVLA con if yu ask me...

[Dragons Dennis]

Do you have a copy of that previous reg doc? I never send anything to DVLA without taking a photocopy first for this very reason - since I lost my motorcycle entitlement even though I passed my bike test in 1979 (granted I have no intention of ever riding again ).

[dudixenia]

VERY wise advice....

the thing is, it wasn't my document to copy - it was the previous owners.... but in future everything to d with the DVLA is scanned copied and logged, they have such a corrupt system it is outrageous..... any way, after recently receiving a letter with a how to complain leaflet (out of date giving previous CEO details) i have now contacted simon Tse and his PA. they all seem to be on leave so i sent a message to the mister for transport - DfT....

Lets see what happens now....

fingers crossed something will be done at long last.

cheers for the heads up on the V888 form too - not once did they mention that form even existed, so how wuld people know? have sent of the form (with £10 fee) and hope to receive something soon.

[Conniff]

Have you got any further with this ?

[dudixenia]

knowone at DfT replied - but my local MP MARK HARPER has! He has written a letter to ceo of dvla Simon Tse as well as me. I recently received a very unsatisfactory response to my complaint to customer service head carole evans. None, and i mean none of my issues were dealt with - they simply confirmed they do not have facilities to electronically log anything that passes through local office! (so many many filing cabinets i presume!

 

oh dear - i await response from exec team -and in the meantime, the owners club man that was trying to help me prove my vehicles age has given up - and is now charging me for the work he didnt regardless of negative outcome.....

 

im in a quandry, and have (illy me presumed it was a free service as money was NEVER mentioned throughout....

 

V5 AND ALL RELATED SERVICE HISTORY NOW APPEARS TO BE BEING HELD HOSTAGE BY the mercedes benz owners club (DVLA archivists)

 

will try and post pdf of dvlas reply.

 

in the meantime fingers crossed for my mp's work, and if all else fails i will buy tax, and them sue them for negligence - to recoup my cots (and the owners club mans too!)

[dudixenia]

here is my reply from the dvla!

[Conniff]

They are too small to read, blowing them up distorts them so still can't read.

Try saving in pdf or use photobucket

[dudixenia]

sorry havent managed to uplaod yet....very busy. Now the enthusiats club man Vernon cox appears to be holding all the vehicles documents hostage until i pay him a large amount (wont actually reply to any correspondence i make asking how much though). Absolutley at my wits end, feel as though ive been pulled through the mill backward with all this. waiting to hear final response from ym local mp, and the dvlad cheif exec Simon Tse.