£20 Penalty fare on Southeastern train.

[chrismfc]

Hi I was given a £20 penalty fare at dartford station for trying to use my oyster card. I used my oyster card at my local station Bexleyheath to get on a train to dartford as I got off at dartford and approached the barrier there was no oyster sign to put it on so I asked the staff at the barrier where I could pay to get through with my oyster, he replied I cannot use my oyster and he had to fine me.

 

I told him that there was no information about oyster cards not being allowed at the train station ( I checked national rail and southeastern) I the asked if I could just buy a ticket to get throug the barrier he didn't say anything and just asked for my details.

 

Can I be fined for using my oyster card at one station and trying to use it at the next station? I don't see how I can be fined as I had paid on my oyster to board the train at my local station and I had enough money to pay for a ticket to pass through. I was not planning in getting the train back as a friend of mine wad going to drive me home later.

 

Should I pay the £20 or appeal or not pay at all?

[andydd]

I'd pay up, I dont know about South Eastern trains but on my local line C2C there are big posters nearly everwhere you look showing a simple diagram of where you can and cant use Oyster, these have recently been changed to include some further Esssex stations but even then you cant travel to them on a standard Oyster you need to buy an extension to top it up, so whewn/if dartford did become part of the Oyster zone you would still need an extension and so your Oyster still would of been invalid.

 

The fact you swiped in is irrelevant, after all, you could swipe in at Kings x and then travel to Edinburgh.

 

It really is upto you to check whether your Oyster will cover you to your destination especially if it is outside the greater london area.

 

Having said all that, their website is not that clear on the subject, I had to specifically seartch for 'oyster' and even then all it told me was

We accept season tickets on Oyster on our network (within the valid zones) and Oyster pay as you go (PAYG) within the travelcard zone area. which still isnt that clear, they should follow C2C's exam-le and provide a map http://www.c2c-online.co.uk/travel_information/general_ticket_information/transport_for_london/using_oyster_payg_on_c2c

Edited March 13, 2011 by andydd

[Stigy]

Just because you had credit on your Oyster Card is niether here nor there. Unfortnuately it's merely electronic credit that only gets received by whomever it's owed (TfL and TOCs more than likely). In other words although in your mind you had paid for your journey, it doesn't get spread throughout the relevent companies. I'd appeal if you feel hard done by, but I feel it'll fall on deaf ears.

[thelife]

What is a pity there is that you will also be hit for the maximum oyster fare of £7.40 for not touching out. That's in addition to your £20 fare.

 

I have read that there are very specific criteria that have to be fulfilled at your boarding station for penalty fares to apply and many stations don't fulfill that. Department for Transport Penalty Fare rules 4.21 to 4.23.

 

See if your station fulfills these criteria and if not, put in an appeal based on that. I don't think that there is any further penalty if your apppeal is rejected. You'll still be £7.40 down on the Oyster though.

[andydd]

What is a pity there is that you will also be hit for the maximum oyster fare of £7.40 for not touching out. That's in addition to your £20 fare.

 

I have read that there are very specific criteria that have to be fulfilled at your boarding station for penalty fares to apply and many stations don't fulfill that. Department for Transport Penalty Fare rules 4.21 to 4.23.

 

See if your station fulfills these criteria and if not, put in an appeal based on that. I don't think that there is any further penalty if your apppeal is rejected. You'll still be £7.40 down on the Oyster though.

 

Heres a little hint, if you didnt have much money on your Oyster and it shows you are minus £6 or something, chuck it in the bin and buy another, they cost £3

 

Andy

[thelife]

Heres a little hint, if you didnt have much money on your Oyster and it shows you are minus £6 or something, chuck it in the bin and buy another, they cost £3

 

Andy

 

Unfortunately it never works that way Andy. For a start, you need to have £2 or so on the card to have the gate open or the Oyster reader to beep. You can't get Oyster to start a journey with 0, you have to have that minimum amount. But nobody ever has the minimum amount. So if you had £3 on there, touch in, don't touch out you'll actually be £6 down. So you might save £1.40 but then have to go and find a new Oyster.

 

They have it all worked out.

[andydd]

Unfortunately it never works that way Andy. For a start, you need to have £2 or so on the card to have the gate open or the Oyster reader to beep. You can't get Oyster to start a journey with 0, you have to have that minimum amount. But nobody ever has the minimum amount. So if you had £3 on there, touch in, don't touch out you'll actually be £6 down. So you might save £1.40 but then have to go and find a new Oyster.

 

 

 

They have it all worked out.

 

 

I quite often have the minumum amount on there which will allow you to travel which is 1.80 i believe so you can save more than 1.40 and it only takes a few seconds to buy a new oyster and it can actually be quicker than topping up an existing one.

 

 

[thelife]

 

 

I quite often have the minumum amount on there which will allow you to travel which is 1.80 i believe so you can save more than 1.40 and it only takes a few seconds to buy a new oyster and it can actually be quicker than topping up an existing one.

 

 

£1.80 minimum fare plus £3 for a new Oyster is £4.80. Are there any journeys on Oyster which cost more than that? And then do those stations have no barrier at the end you are disembarking?

 

I love a good bending of the rules but I don't think that that is a very good fare evasion strategy.

[MikeWh]

The smallest adult single fare is £1.30 for a single zone outside zone 1. The deposit is actually £5 now, although there are still some vending machines at Underground stations that sell you a card with £2 PAYG balance for £5. The maximum charge varies depending on whether it is peak or off-peak and whether you can reach the extra zones (7, 8 or 9) without touching out and in again. Thus in a lot of areas it is actually only £6.50 peak or £4.40 off-peak, being the fares for a six zone journey including Underground within zone 1.