Cabot taking me to court (for mbna cc debt) but cannot provide cca ?

[dekky2]

thanks again F

[PriorityOne]

If the Claimants claim is sooo damn vague that you honestly do not understand what its about, then you should ask the claimant to replead their case properly at the same time as you ask for disclosure. put it clear, the pleadings are not good enough for a trail and therefore ask them to plead their claim properly or you will make an application to the court for an order compelling them to plead proper. After all, a judge will want a properly pleaded claim and defence and both cannot be achieved unless you have all the documents etc that you need and the case is properly put together,

 

 

obviously not my words but i do think it applys to my case & many others....anyone agree ??

 

Agree.

 

This is somewhat out of my comfort zone but know that pt2537 has made some valuable threads on court procedures, including what to do when you have a vague POC. On the face of it, what's the basis of their claim? Have they named any docs. that they're hoping to rely upon? If so, then you can request site of these under CPR 18; which I believe is more specific.

 

It seems that they're so sure of themselves, that they haven't bothered to plead their case properly.... so you need to look at having it struck out.

 

Search for pt2537 and have a good read before entering a defence. I will help if I can...

 

[FORMISTER]

Thanks P1 for your input. I think I origionally suggested CPR31.13 to the OP as it was a little vague on what they were claiming, I know CPR18 is more specific to each document.

 

A good idea to search for PT2537's threads, a very good ref for court defence.

[dekky2]

THANKS..will do..as i say earlier in thread i have got ccj's mainly through illness/marriage problems but i am goin to fight this all the way. maybe they know i didnt even acknowledge other court cases & think i would do the same again. worst thing that can happen is another ccj....who knows may win ?.

nite all & thanks

[PriorityOne]

You may find this helpful.... courtesy of pt2537

 

What is CPR part 18 for?

 

Part 18 is for information purposes, so for example if the lender sends you three sets of terms and conditions during the course of proceedings and you are not sure which set relates to what? then you make a part 18 request.

 

The same applies if you need to clarify what happened with some of the money they are claiming, for example if the agreement has an amount of credit of say 10k but you only received 5k, then you would make a part 18 request for further information to clarify the points.

 

If you haven't yet made a CCA request to Cabot, it won't hurt to make one now. In theory, you should get all the info. you need in response to a CPR 31.14 request but it's important to cover all bases. I would also ask for clarification as to what they have under CPUTR 2008. Ths probably sounds like a load of gobble-de-gook but if you can get past that feeling, it's worth looking into. I have a thread running on CPUTR which might be useful.... although at the moment, we need to know which direction to go in with your defence.

 

Although it's tempting to go with an embarrassed defence, pt2537 raised arguments against this.... which are in one of his threads. If I find it before you do, I'll let you know!

 

[PriorityOne]

Here it is...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?283443-Embarrassed-Defences-and-the-problems-with-them.&highlight=

 

Read it several times though.... there's a lot to take in.

 

[FORMISTER]

I think the OP took his quote from that thread P1. I think the problem with the POC is that it does not mention any documents at all, this possibly could be because they don't exist.

[FORMISTER]

This is the post from the OP regarding the POC:

 

the particulars of claim

the claimant is the assignee of a debt(s)frof

MBNA

..........

CREDIT REF.....

Notice of assignment having been given to the defendant in writing.

despite demand for payment £7k+ remains due.

the claimant claims £7k+ and interest

under s.69 county courts act 1984 and costs.

 

No mention of any docs apart from NOA

[PriorityOne]

Ok....I see.....

 

The link I gave should be helpful.... as it deal with circumstances like that. If the POC is too vague, then how can someone defend it? They can't.... and I'm assuming that is what Cabot are hoping for.

[FORMISTER]

I suppose if they are refering to a MBNA and a credit ref, then they are implying that a credit agreement exists, so therefore they should of provided a copy of this.

 

They mention the NOA so this should of been supplied

 

They mention the amount and interest so details of this should of been supplied

 

In which case they then should of supplied all of these under the CPR request.

[pt2537]

the facts and background is important here.

 

there is no agreement, that assists, but also there is no agreement pleaded either.

 

So we need to consider the background, when you got this card, did you ever sign an agreement (or anything else for that matter) , how did the card arrive? it is not unknown for cards to be sent to people without request (Jones vs Lloyds TSB Bank Plc)

 

When was the last payment made? have they said this?

 

its really important that the background facts are made clear,

 

 

As for pleading a defence, its not too tricky id suggest, when all the issues and facts are clear

 

Have cabot said when the agreement started? do they actually know? have they said when the last payment was?

[dekky2]

[/img]IMG.pdf trying to upload a image of their ''other information '' from their claimants allocation questionnaire.

[dekky2]

i just wanted to put an image on here , will keep trying.

[FORMISTER]

Have you tried to convert it to PDF using a free program, then upload it by "Go Advance" below and then click on the paperclip icon to add attachments and follow it from their?

 

I will keep an interest on your thread, but as PT is here , I have no need to comment

[dekky2]

still trying ...lol

IMG.pdf

[dekky2]

Edited February 22, 2011 by dekky2

[dekky2]

the last payment was made in 2008 to mbna.

they say card was taken out in 2000. im not sure

[dekky2]

are above any good ?

[FORMISTER]

Can't read the above attachments. If the card was taken out in 2000 then the enforcability of it will be questionable, but without seeing it, we wouldn't know

[dekky2]

couldnt copy/paste what i wanted, but here is what

other info in ''claimants allocation questionnaire'' that i recieved today.

 

The defendants defence states that the CPR, r.31.14 request has been sent to the claimant. The defendant does not give basis on which he disputes the claim. The claiment submits that it is not a defence in law to request documents under CPR, r. 31.14.

Within the defendants CPR, r. 31.14 request, the defendant requested copies of the agreement, the notice of assignment, the default notice, breakdown of amounts and any other documentation relied upon. The claiment submits that the request was nothing more than a fishing expedition and, in of itself, does not result in a defence in law.

Furthermore, the claiment had not explicitly referred to any of the documents within its statement of case(with the exception of the notice of assignment, a copy representation of which was provided) Accordingly, the claiment has complied with the defendants request under CPR,r. 31.14. by supplying the documentation referred to in its statement of case.

The claiment submits that on the above basis, the defendants request was to provide him with a prospective defence in law and, therefore, the defendant has not shown that he has a defence to this claim. The claiment therefore requests that the defendants defence be struck out.

 

a few spelling mistakes, mine not theirs !!

[FORMISTER]

Ok, I think PT2537 needs to look at this.

[pt2537]

couldnt copy/paste what i wanted, but here is what

other info in ''claimants allocation questionnaire'' that i recieved today.

 

The defendants defence states that the CPR, r.31.14 request has been sent to the claimant. The defendant does not give basis on which he disputes the claim. The claiment submits that it is not a defence in law to request documents under CPR, r. 31.14. If they are correct, and all you have pleaded is that, then you are at risk, CPR 31.14 and more importantly non compliance with it, is no defence to an action, it is the foundation for an application for disclosure however.

 

 

Within the defendants CPR, r. 31.14 request, the defendant requested copies of the agreement, the notice of assignment, the default notice, breakdown of amounts and any other documentation relied upon. The claiment submits that the request was nothing more than a fishing expedition and, in of itself, does not result in a defence in law.They are correct if the documents arent mentioned in the statement of case.

 

 

Furthermore, the claiment had not explicitly referred to any of the documents within its statement of case(with the exception of the notice of assignment, a copy representation of which was provided) Accordingly, the claiment has complied with the defendants request under CPR,r. 31.14. by supplying the documentation referred to in its statement of case.

 

The claiment submits that on the above basis, the defendants request was to provide him with a prospective defence in law and, therefore, the defendant has not shown that he has a defence to this claim. The claiment therefore requests that the defendants defence be struck out.

If true you are at risk of strike out pursuant to the Courts case management powers under CPR 3.

 

What was your actual defence?

[FORMISTER]

If the POC says

 

the claimant is the assignee of a debt(s)frof MBNA..........

CREDIT REF.....

 

This is refering to a credit agreement surely, so shouldn't they have to produce one PT?

 

Also if the POC is vague like P1 states, could the OP apply for a strike out on these grounds? How could he submit a defence?

[dekky2]

didnt really state a defence, just stated that i was defending all the amount.

they were vague & so i thought i would be .

it did say i didnt have to give anymore info at this time.

i just stated that i had sent for the cpr31.14, not that i was relying on it.

and i dont recall getting a notice of assignment, and the representation they sent had no name or date or ref number.

[FORMISTER]

So was this just your answer to your acknowledgement of the N1 form and that you were going to defend the claim, giving you longer to file a defence?