ESA Appeal Denied - Facing Massive Debt

[wishface]

I have just received a letter from the tribunal in respect of my appeal against the decision to stop ESA which was made last October. I chose not to attend because I can't face it. The letter is dated 14/1/11 and says 'first tier tribunal social security'. The appeal is disallowed, and it says that i'm not entitled to ESA from and incluyding 07/10/10! I've been receiving ESA since then pending this decision as I was told this was accceptable. I can't possibly pay back 3 monhths worth of benefit! What the hell do I do?

[leemack]

Don't worry, you don't have to pay back the benefit. They pay it while you're appealing, they don't expect it back! Think of it as an 'appeal allowance' that you've been paid since October.

[wishface]

Are you 100% sure about this? Why would they say the date that ESA stops is October? How does that affect what I've been receiving up till now? This whole thing is ridiculous; I was first told the hearing wouldn't be till March (not that i expected to win, they aren't interested in talking to me at all) and now I get a letter today telling me the tribunal has upheld the original decision. I cannot cannot cope with signing on again.

[leemack]

Yes I'm 100% sure. The way to think of it, as I said before is that your ESA did finish in October, and that you've been paid an allowance to allow you to appeal. No one has ever been asked to pay this allowance back.

 

I'm afraid there's not really any way round signing on for jsa at the moment. If you think the esa appeal decision is wrong, you can write to the tribunal service requesting a full statement of reasons, then when you get it, find a benefits adviser, if you don't already have one, and ask them to look at it and your appeal pack to see if they can find an error of law. It is very unlikely that they will find an error. If they do they can start proceedings to apply to an upper tribunal to have your case looked at. Its a long process and there is no allowance payable, and only a few appeal decisions have errors of law on them.

 

Your best option is to apply for jsa now. On 7th April you will be eligible to apply for ESA again, providing you have a med cert. The only way to apply for ESA now is if you have a totally new illness, not previously mentioned to the dwp or your condition has significantly worsened. For a worsening condition, they make you go through the medical again before they will pay you.

 

For future reference, not attending the appeal is the worst thing you can do as for medically related claims - esa, incap, dla etc, very few appeals are succesful if the appellant doesn't attend. I know its hard, but if you have an appeal in future, you need to try and attend.

[wishface]

I had considered changing my mind and deciding to attend. But since that tribunal got moved two months forward that's too late. When i sent off the tribunal paperwork i was deeply uncomfortable with the idea of attending.

[wishface]

I had hoped to get an appointment with the CMHT to get some evidence (hopefuly) to send to the tribunal to back up my case. But i'm still waiting for that to happen. I thought i'd have time before March, but they've moved the appointment forward (obviously not quite as busy as they led me to believe i guess) out of the blue and now i can't do anything to prove my case. That seems a bit underhand to me. Thanks anyway.

[leemack]

For future reference or for anyone reading this, if the tribunal date comes too soon, before evidence you're waiting for, you can write to the tribunal service and ask for a postponement to a later date to allow time to gather evidence. They don't have to say yes, but given enough notice they usually agree. I know it doesn't help now, sorry.

[wishface]

How could i have tried that though, they just changed their time without me knowing - and I'm sure they'd argue that they aren't there to do me any favours.

[leemack]

If you've already chosen a paper hearing, they don't have to tell you when they're going to hear the case. I had assumed you chose not to attend an oral hearing - not chosen a paper hearing from the outset. Unfortunately there's not really any more advice I can offer.

[wishface]

I chose not to attend the hearing. I don't know what the processes are or how that affects things, but it doesn't give me much room to do anything.

[wishface]

In another discussion you mentioned it takes a couple of weeks to close the claim down. What exactly happens? All i have is a letter saying that the tribunal upholds the original decision and that i'm not entitled to esa from october (hence the debt concern - I don' thave 800 quid to spare, or at all!), there's no mention of what happens now. The letter is dated yesterday so I'm assuming money will cease from yesterday then. Is that not the case? I haven't heard anything from the ESA peopel themselves. It's impossible to plan financially and make any kind of decision long term on ESA; the amount you get is so little and the constant threat of decisions that can stop your benefit (medicals and appeals etc) that can be made anytime are just ridiculous. How anyone can think this is the easy life, I don't know.

[speedfreek]

Wishface

 

YOU WILL NOT HAVE TO PAY ANYTHING BACK!

 

Now what next?

 

1, get your evidence bank statements etc together and fill in a form for your LHA/CT benefits because payments will be suspended as soon as the council here about it.

 

2, Contact Dial or MIND to see if they can offer you some advice on what to do next.

 

3, find help somewhere see 2 or there's a website http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/ see if they can suggest any where.

[wishface]

Thanks for the replies. I've just spoken to the tribunal people (well, their call centre operators) and they say too late. I could have asked to attend, changing my mind. But given that the decision was made with no warning it's too late. I was initially told that would happen in March. I was told the office dealing with it was Cardiff (it was Bristol). I wasn't comfortable attending and getting to cardiff was out of the question. Bristol is another matter. This all seems unfair to me. The CAB are going to get back in touch with me. It's hard getting hold of them because i don't live anywhere near a branch out in the sticks.

[speedfreek]

There's not much you can do about the Tribunal Ruling but you should ask for a Statement of Reasons as to why they turned down your appeal.

 

You should also throw a SAR (Subject Access Request) at the DWP and get everything they have on your claim.

 

Once they arrive look through them to check for accuracy, procedures have been followed and digest them to see how you can improve your answers/evidence if you want to give it another shot.

 

It's also worth have a look through the Tribunal Service decisions catalouge to get a better understanding of what exactly works and what doesn't.

 

Here's a starter for 10 http://www.osscsc.gov.uk/Aspx/view.aspx?id=3095

 

I'll add to this as well

 

For future reference, not attending the appeal is the worst thing you can do as for medically related claims - esa, incap, dla etc, very few appeals are succesful if the appellant doesn't attend. I know its hard, but if you have an appeal in future, you need to try and attend.

 

With the 6 month rule (as it stands) even if you have no intention of going to the tribunal you have to opt for an Oral hearing.

 

1, it gives you time to gather evidence

 

2, The DWP are going through every ESA appeal just before the tribunal due date and doing thorough reconsiderations and over turning many decisions.

 

3, with current time scales for them being heard in all probability by the time it gets round to it the 6 months will be up and you can re-apply straight away.

[wishface]

Well it's too late now. Make a mistake in this system and you'll pay dearly. There are no second chances.

[wishface]

New question: Just received a tax document from the ESA people as per no longer being on ESA which lists the date the claim ends (afaict) as the 14/1 (last friday). I've heard nothing regarding the actual cessation of the benefit even though I rang them on monday. My benefit has been paid up to today (which is, or would have been, the correct day) as the payment was issued on tuesday/wednesday to go into the bank in time. Obviously the payment went through before the ESA people were told to stop paying me. My question is: can they ask for the money from the 15-21st back given that i've already been paid (and would quite like to keep it as I'm going to need it). What can I do?

[wishface]

I need to know if the DWP can legimitately ask for me to repay a week's worth of ESA having stopped my claim on the 14th (as far as I can tell) but i've been paid up to the 21st (which is the normal payment date). They haven't written to tell me this, only to tell me about the tax status and send a p45. The payment would have gone through on tuesday which, presumably, is before they were notifed to close the claim down (following a tribunal decision regarding my appeal, which failed). I don't really know where I stand. Thanks.

[leemack]

No, you won't be asked to pay the money back. Yes, I'm 100% sure.

[wishface]

Well, no one likes to be doubted or questioned. But how can you be so sure? Everything i've found on google would suggest otherwise.

[leemack]

10 years of work in the benefits sector. Come back to us if they request it back, and we'll tell you what to write back to them. In the meantime we cannot help you with your worries about what might be. Even if they request it - legally you don't have to pay it. Show the links in which this has happened in your situation - I'm always eager to learn of others differing experiences!

[wishface]

I don't have any links. There's no need to get defensive though. It makes perfect sense to verify the accuracy of advice, especially if it's financial. DWP may have changed since you worked for them.

[leemack]

The DWP changing or not doesn't matter, they must follow benefit law. You appear to question all the advice you are given, but suggesting you've found contrary information on google, just to get reassurance isn't good, and if you are unable to have faith in the advice given here freely, by myself or others, then maybe it is best to find an adviser you can trust. Confirming the advice you get on an internet site is wise, so please do.

 

Unfortunately, I will be unable to assist you further.

Edited January 23, 2011 by leemack

[wishface]

Are these benefit laws online? Of course i question what I read on the net, including stuff i find through googling. I'm sorry if that offends you but it seems irresponsible to do otherwise.

[honeybee13]

The DWP changing or not doesn't matter, they must follow benefit law. You appear to question all the advice you are given, but suggesting you've found contrary information on google, just to get reassurance isn't good, and if you are unable to have faith in the advice given here freely, by myself or others, then maybe it is best to find an adviser you can trust. Confirming the advice you get on an internet site is wise, so please do.

 

Unfortunately, I will be unable to assist you further.

 

I know how you feel, Leemack. That's why I haven't said anything since November. I think wishface is playing games with us.

 

Wishface, try the DWP website, they have a lot of technical guides for advisers and others. All the pubications will show which piece of legislation they're quoting, I imagine, and then you can google it.

 

HB