Citi Cards being obstructive with SAR

[Master Chief]

[ATTACH]23216[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

Not sure why I was having trouble with this attachment, but here it is again.

 

MC

Edited November 16, 2010 by Master Chief
typo

[Master Chief]

Could a mod please help, I can't seem to get a file to attach properly!

Edited November 16, 2010 by MARTIN3030
Damn attachment

[MARTIN3030]

Seems ok to me I will try to post

DCA SAR Response.pdf

[MARTIN3030]

Oops Gremlins at work.

[Master Chief]

Thanks Martin. That's so wierd, the damn thing wouldn't post, even looked like it did once, then when I came back it wasn't an attachement anymore, just a long file name! Oh well, seems OK now.

 

Thanks.

MC

[Master Chief]

Anyone care to comment on attachments in post #46 & #48?

 

Thanks

MC

 

*BUMP*

Edited November 16, 2010 by Master Chief

[Master Chief]

*BUMP*

[silverfox1961]

With their system notes, you might have problems proving that what they have sent you has been "altered"

Reconciling your own phone logs and letters against what they have sent may help

 

With the SAR, I would write back and see if they will give you more. As you say, they haven't included your correspondence.

The phone recordings should be available. I think the IOC was referrring to "disproportionate effort" in locating the recordings. The comms logs should show when they called you so it shouldn't be that hard to find them unless they don't want you to have copies of their dubious practices

[Master Chief]

Hi SF and thanks for the reply.

 

You may have a point with proof, but it shouldn't be too hard to reconcile with my data, as it seems to be more thorough than the DCA's.

 

The way I am looking at it is: Automated systems log date and time as the event is manually entered or an automatic event happens, looking at the file it starts p10 and then logs events by day/time. For the most part it runs true, except for time periods where there is the possibility of a reg contravention. During these periods, the time stamps are all over the place, like such and such happened at 09:15 then the next entry is 13:30, then 13:00 then 10:00 - for example. As fishy as Mrs Anchovy's underwear!

 

In any case, I have given what I have to the ICO and asked for advice. Spoke to them today and I have to call back on Thursday, once I have the ICO's opinion I'll know how to proceed.

 

Think I need to swat up on the DPA a bit in the meantime, great fun YIPPEEE, not,

 

MC

[Master Chief]

As you can tell from the title, I am now out of the closet!

My previous threads were a bit ‘cloak & dagger’ in avoiding naming specific parties. However, I now feel that it is time to be more open about whom, why and when etc.

For reasons that I hope will become clear a bit later in this thread, I will give a little historical background to my situation:

 

In 2000 my marriage broke down and as a result I left the family home with divorce proceedings and everything that goes with that looming over my head. Pretty much immediately I sank into a deep depression and was prescribed Prozac after being diagnosed as clinically depressed.

Unfortunately, things did not really get any better and subsequently I very firmly pressed the self destruct button. Think Nicholas Cage ‘Leaving Las Vegas’ with a good measure of prescription and class ‘A’ non-prescription medication thrown in. Consequently, I wasn’t quite myself for a considerable period; confused, vulnerable and suffering with blackouts and random memory loss. To say that the whole sordid and regrettable experience, which probably lasted a good couple of years, is a tad patchy would be the understatement of the decade. My experience would probably make a good book, if only I could remember it! lol

 

Things are very different now, I’m glad to say that I came through it fairly unscathed and in some ways a better person for it.

 

I realise that my experience is not unique and that there are plenty of similar (divorce + depression = debt) stories to be found on this forum as well as others. And I’m not saying the aforementioned for any sort of sympathy or the like. The reason for me being quite so candid is that it relates to the debt that I am being chased for by 1st Credit, an Associates Credit Card account.

 

And that reason is, for the life of me I just cannot recall completing an application for this credit card. I’m not stating that I didn’t, I just cannot remember doing it. Around that time I was juggling finances left, right and centre and an overdraft, loan or credit card application was not an uncommon event. I have just assumed all along that I must have done, and haven’t really questioned it, until today!

 

I’m going to make my apology now, because if you thought that thus far this post has been a bit unnecessary and protracted, buckle-up, sit back and get ready for the ride.

 

Not so long before the alleged credit card application had been made, apparently 06/08/2001. After a very brief romance and I use that term very loosely, my then girlfriend moved in; which would have been some time around April/May 2001. In August of that year we went away to Corfu for a fortnight’s sun, sea and the rest ;-).

 

Sometime after our return, probably late August or maybe September an Associates statement dropped through the door, showing purchases made in the UK and some other country (can’t remember where now, but it certainly wasn’t Greece). OK, so other than being a little confused about the credit card bill’s arrival, it clearly had purchases on it in the UK and elsewhere when I was soaking up the Greek sunshine, how clever of me to be in three different countries at once!

 

I reported a fraud to Associates and after proving where I was they had the charges removed and a replacement card was provided. I never really questioned whether I had made the application initially, I just assumed that it was something that I had done it a drunken stupor and therefore didn’t remember.

 

Before I go any further, I need to add that I had left my flat key with her (the g/f’s) mother and father to keep an eye on things for me/us while we were away, safe enough, or so you would think.

 

It seems that the application was made prior to the holiday, and the card posted out during. So in truth I just don’t know whether it ever made it as far as my letter box or not.

Although, it later transpired that her father, who on the exterior was pillar of the community, respected business man and a wink-wink, nudge-nudge, dodgy handshake sort of fellow (I shan’t say anymore) etc, was indeed a right bloody villain and had shady ‘business’ trips to Eastern Europe or some such; or at least that was what the then girlfriend had disclosed to me at some point during our brief and regrettable relationship!

 

Anyway, the relationship went very south around March/April of 2002 and the last I heard of her was that she had buggered off to Spain leaving a host unpaid credit in her wake, as did her father also.

 

This all sounds a bit fantasy, I would agree, but it’s the bloody gods’ honest truth.

 

I can neither prove nor disprove who made the application, it could well have been me, I just simply do not know. And I was hoping that getting sight of the original agreement via the SAR to Citi might shed some light, but unfortunately it doesn’t appear to be in existence.

 

However, rather interestingly, and this is the first knowledge that I have of it, the SAR showed up that she was an additional cardholder!

 

To be fair, I did use the replacement card and then when I lost my job, I became unable to keep up with the repayments.

 

Right, to the heart of the matter, my SAR to Citi, and CCA & SAR to 1st Crud are now all back in, but not really because neither have provided me with any sort of agreement or terms – neither at the time or current terms. Citi excuse themselves as apparently the terms aren’t subject to the SAR and 1st Crud say they are approaching the OC – Citi!

As 1st Crud received my CCA 30/10/2010 and it is yet to materialise, I now believe this matter is in dispute, is it not?

 

Considering, my rather long winded explanation above and in addition to not being able to check the original for prescribed terms etc. Should this ever go near a court room, I feel that I have good cause to want to see the original signed/executed agreement. I think the banana types would term it as colour no?

 

I don’t want to flood this post with too much information and questions all at once, because I think I need to take it one or two steps at a time, otherwise I am just going to confuse myself and others.

 

I would like to post up my CCA/SAR info in due course as I really need some proper advice on them, but if I could initially just have some views on the two questions above, that would be great.

 

I am aware that I have two other related threads running, but one is more related to DPA issues and I’d rather keep that separate. The other, although Citi SAR related, has been banished to Coventry in the Citi sub-forum and doesn’t seem to get sufficient attention. But if the general consensus is that I should put all Citi stuff in there, then so be it and I will just keep this one for 1St Credit SAR/CCA.

 

I’ll get my scanning sorted and post up relevant docs as soon as.

[harrassed senior]

OK, that took all of my breakfast toast to read:sad:

 

To get this straight, you have sent a CCA which has thus far gone unanswered, so they need the 'account in dispute' letter.

 

With regard to the issue of the card, and the subsequent fraud, I assume you reported this to the Police, and at the very least got a Crime Number. So, any money spent, charges added etc. up until the time of the issue of the new card have been removed?

 

I think that this has progressed on from 'the fraud' as you say you have used the replacement card, so that is what you must address now.

[Master Chief]

Hi HS, and thanks.

 

Sorry about the toast, marmalade or jam?

 

I will post up the CCA/SAR replies I have just as soon as I'm able. But in essence, both SAR's are incomplete. Citi say we don't have to supply a CCA/Terms under the SAR and 1st Crud simply state that they are approaching Citi for the CCA.

 

As regards crime number, I'm pretty sure that I only contacted Associates and as they subsequently accepted the fraud and removed the charges I didn't persue any other avenues.

 

I have a whole raft of statements, but they are 'inconsistent', you can see that the purchases have been credited back and the accont number changes. I don't want to get into the statement issues immediately, unless people feel it is important to at this stage. But I will say that there are irregularities with dates, a missing statement (Sep 01) and a host of charges, which some have been credited back (although I don't believe I have ever asked for them back).

 

HTH

 

MC

 

EDIT: HS, what I am trying to get at as regards the fraud is that it gives me reasonable doubt as to whether I made the intial application, therefore I believe that seeing the original signed/executed doc is of great importance. Would a DJ be likely to agree with that?

 

Further Edit: I'll get the account in dispute letter sorted. Thanks

Edited November 19, 2010 by Master Chief
typo

[babybear39]

In response to your PM:

 

The most important things you should have got from citi are the application form, when the additional card was requested ie: at date of application or later. They should have supplied details of you contacting them re: fraud so they have a duty to disclose these details.

 

Write to each company stating that the account is now in dispute until such time as the OC and DCA can furnish your requests IN FULL!

[Master Chief]

Hi BB, thanks for your reply.

 

I will post up the SAR response, but in the meantime, what I received was

 

The covering letter

A computer printout showing application details (second cardholder on original application)

Statements 17/08/01 - 19/03/03 (missing sept 01 and I supspect that this is as a result of the reported fraud)

 

No manual notes prior to 3/11/2010

No Default

No Termination

No Agreement

No Terms

 

I have a NoA from Citi 05/06/2003 and a letter of introduction from 1st Crud (which pre-dates Citi's NoA) 23/05/2003

 

An interesting point is that I have an Experian report from Nov' 2006 showing the Citi account settled 05/08/2002. That being the case, how come I have now been provided with statements post 08/2002 (up to March 03). The Experian report shows the next entry relating to this account as a default dated 28/04/2003.

 

Furthermore, and ignoring the issue of charges at the moment, the statements provided by Citi show that the account number changes no less than three times during the life of the account (four seperate account numbers)

 

I can understand the first change, which would have been as a result of the fraud. But can't find any good reason for the second change and the third coincides with the settled account date reference in my old Experian report! What am I to make of this?

 

Also, the actual entries on the staments and dates don't make sense, but at this moment I need to go pick my son up, so will ellaborate upon my return.

 

Edit: Added link to Citi SAR response: http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/9061/citisarresponseediteds.jpg

 

 

MC

Edited November 19, 2010 by Master Chief
typo

[babybear39]

When was the last payment made and when was the last time you acknowleged the alleged debt in writing?

[Master Chief]

BB, I've been paying 1st Crud since assignment. No chance of SB, I'm afraid. However payments were definately made under duress!

[babybear39]

Duress via phone or letter?

[Master Chief]

Duress via phone or letter?

 

Both!

 

First letter after introduction was a 'We now intend to seek a CCJ' & as for phone calls I think you are fully aware of how they conduct themselves.

 

Having more issues trying to upload bloody files, grrrrrrr. And I'm an IT engineer, go figure!

 

Will try via photobucket or similar.

 

 

 

EDIT: Have uploaded Citi SAR response in above post #5 & here http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/9061/citisarresponseediteds.jpg

 

 

EDIT: Here are the links to 1st Cruds' CCA & SAR response

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/4350/1stcrudccasarresponse00.jpg

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4350/1stcrudccasarresponse00.jpg

Edited November 19, 2010 by Master Chief

[Master Chief]

Hi, sorry to pester, but could one of you knowledgeable caggers take a look at the CIti SAR response and give me your view as to what they are saying is correct or not.

 

Thanks

 

MC

[coledog]

Sorry - can't seem to see anything, just the logos. Try saving as PDF files

[Master Chief]

Sorry - can't seem to see anything, just the logos. Try saving as PDF files

 

Hi CD,

 

The images are failry high-res, so if you zoom out using your browser the entire doc will be visible (you can press & hold Ctrl then back/forth with the wheel on your mouse, is a quick shortcut).

 

Have had some issues uploading files via CAG, so just thoght I'd try it this way. Let me know if you're still having issues and I'll try an alternative method.

 

MC

[coledog]

I am just seeing a letter heading on the Citi one. Can anyone else see it? Have already seen the 1st crud one

[Master Chief]

I am just seeing a letter heading on the Citi one. Can anyone else see it? Have already seen the 1st crud one

 

Sorry CD, the image is quite large and extends beyond the browser limits as a result, therefore you need to zoom out.

 

My fault, I will change to a PDF and try and upload directly.

 

Cheers.

 

MC

[Master Chief]

Sorry, I have been busy sorting through the Citi statements and it has taken an absolute age.

 

I'll upload the the Citi SAR Response now and then I'd like to upload the statements also, because there is some really weird stuff going on with them and also the issues of charges as well.

[Master Chief]

[ATTACH]23323[/ATTACH]

 

 

OK, so hopefully here are the SAR doccs in PDF.

 

Essentially, they haven't sent me much at all other than a printed sheet showing application data and statements (which are really weird and I'll post them in a while). No terms, no default notice, no termination notice!