Me vs halifax plc ppi claim (any thoughts, help, suggestions?)

[domjkb]

Hello All!

 

I sent a letter of complaint to Halifax customer relations in August of this year. The complaint related to many areas where I felt we had been very badly treated as customers. Included was the mis-selling of ppi insurance on our personal loan.

 

The main complaint with the ppi was not the fact it was mis-sold to us and we were not elegible to claim, but just 9 days after we agreed I tried to cancel but couldn't. We were told the only way of removing the insurance was to entirely replace the loan with a new loan. However the rate quoted for the new loan was more than twice the rate of the first loan! So in short, this was not cost effective and we were basically forced to keep the insurance!

 

Anyway a couple of weeks after sending our letter of complaint we received a response from Halifax customer relations. The letter basically stated that they had investigated the complaint, and offered to return us to the position we would have been in had we not been mis-sold ppi on our loan (+8%). It went on to say that it had been passed to their redress team to calculate the amounts payable to us, and they would contact us within 5 working days to confirm these calculations.

 

This however did not happen. We called almost daily for four weeks after the five day period originally promised by them. To begin with we were told that they had a back log but we should be fully redressed in the next few days. Then we were told that they did not have a system to calculate how much we were owed...and they were currently working on a system to do it. Apparantly it was a very complex calculation...because we did later replace the loan...so we paid too much interest on loan 2 also. (I was able to calculate the compensation payable myself in about 15 mins?? So why can't they?)

 

So we continued to chase Halifax daily, until the beginning of October! We were then told that they were sorry but they were no longer processing my complaint!! (Due to the judicial review) Apparantly they were holding all cases that may be affected by the results of this review! even though they had fully investigated my complaint and were in the process of redress!!

 

I do not believe that they could not calculate my compensation in 6 weeks...think they were stalling for this judicial review!

 

The same day they told me this I submitted a claim through the small claims courts.

 

They have 14 days to respond initially and if they don't I can file judgement and win by default. Unfortunately they filed yesterday an acknowledgement of service with only hours of the 14 days left to spare. This gives them another 14 days I believe to build a defence? Or deal with the claim?

 

The copy of the response arrived in the post today....titled acknowledgment of service...ticked I intend to defend all of this claim...and signed by a litigation lawyer.

 

Do you think I will be ok here? They did write to me confirming that they would pay out. (will this stand up alone in court?) Will it go that far you think?

 

Any comments, help appreciated. I will keep you posted as things progress. Apologies for any bad spelling / grammer...I'm tired... hope it reads ok.

Edited November 6, 2010 by domjkb

[BankFodder]

Best thing to do is to keep us informed. Especially, we need to see a copy of the defence when it arrives. Post it here.

 

Have you got everything in writing - the evidence that you were ibliged to replace th eloan with a new one etc?

 

Could you please post the details of your claim - as written on the claims form.

 

Incidentally, merely returning you to your original position is an easy and profitbale course of action for them to take. It is not acceptable and you should aim for a better deal

[domjkb]

Hi Bankfodder,

 

Many thanks for looking at my post.

 

Yes I have kept all correspondence from Halifax concerning the complaint.

 

The claim I have submitted did not cover all areas of the complaint, I tried to focus on the fact they have not done what they agreed to do. Anyway here is how the particulars of the claim read:

Sent a letter of complaint to Halifax on

29/8/10. This related to Payment Protection

Insurance,conduct and mal-treatment as

customers over many years. Recieved a short

reply on 6/9/10 confirming reciept of our

complaint. A subsequent letter dated 8/9/10

stated that our complaint had been fully

investigated and that we were to be put back

to the position we would have been in had we

not taken out ppi on our loan.We were advised

that a team would contact us with a breadown

of amounts payable to us in the next 5 days.

After repeatedly contacting Halifax and being

given a number of different explanations,we

are still yet to recieve any calulations or

payment.Confirmed today that Halifax have now

decided to illegally hold our complaint! We

have made every reasonable effort with them.

The claimant claims interest under section 69

of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of

8% a year from 08/09/2010 to 14/10/2010 on

£2,586.75 and also interest at the same rate

up to the date of judgment or earlier payment

at a daily rate of £0.57.

No I don't think it's a fair deal really. I would love to post our original letter of complaint....but may be a bit personal? (Quite shocking what they put us through) Maybe I can pursue other complaints after this one? Halifax quite honestly treated us like dirt. Luckily we no longer bank with them. We paid off our accounts, overdrafts, loans, and credit cards about six months ago. So we have more confidence to start complaining now we are not relying on them.

 

 

[BankFodder]

I'm afraid that you will have problems with this POC. It doesn't disclose any cause of action and my first move would be to apply to have it struck out.

 

Let's see what their response will be but I think that if you are going to go ahead with this - meaning that if they apply to strike out or they put in a defence then you will have to amend the claim - and it will be a pretty substantial modification as well.

 

Cost to amend would be £75 I think.

 

I think that in addition to posting their defence when you receive it, you should outline the basis upon which you say that the PPI has been missold.

[domjkb]

Thanks Bankfodder,

 

Reading your post was like a knife in the heart. The reason I did not want to focus on the mis-selling of the ppi was because of all this news, and was worried with a delay they might be able to chuck it out with this judicial review stuff.

 

So are you saying you cannot take a bank to court for not keeping a promise to calculate and pay out compensation?

 

Unfortnately I would have been more detailed on the claim form...probably pages! But there is a character limit. I do hope I have not messed up big time!

 

So can I amend the claim after the next response? When is too late? I don't might spending more money....but also don't want to waste it if there is a chance they might pay as things stand.

[BankFodder]

In your initial post you didn't say that you had agreed to their proposal. Even a mere agreement would be unlikely to bind them. Your story was that they had offered you a settlement and that they were calculating it for you. That's all.

 

I don't think that there is anything there to sue on. If the full story is different then you should let us know.

 

Moneyclaim is very useful for short simple claims but you should not compromise your claim merely because of a word limit. That is when you should make a claim on paper and file it at the court.

 

You haven't told us the basis for saying that the PPI was missold. You may well have a good basis. I am quite struck that Halifax offered to pay you so quickly. That is fairly unusual.

 

 

So what is the story? If you don't give us the details then there is not much help we can give you.

[domjkb]

Hi Bankfodder,

 

Wih regard to the proposal this is how the letter read: ( I have copied the main paragraph of relevance here)

 

" I have completed my investigation into your complaint relating to the sale of PPI on your loan account: XXXXXXXX and I have arranged for our redress team to carry out the relevant calcualtion to put you back in the position you would have been in had you not taken the insurance on this account. This is done without admission of liability and in full and final settlement of your complaint about the PPI on your loan. This calcualtion will be completed and a letter issued within the next five days. I hope my proposed solution is acceptable to you, however if you remain unhappy you can refer your complaint to the FOS"

 

I would say on a least two occassions, I accepted this as a solution verbally over the telephone.

 

Now as for why we were mis-sold, I have copied and pasted a section from our complaint letter for your information:

 

 

 

 

"This loan was the first credit agreement we had ever had, and we trusted the advice and knowledge of the staff in our local branch.

 

 

A short time after the loan commenced, we discovered that the insurance sold with the loan was completely unsuitable for the reasons below:

 

 

1. At the time of taking the loan, I was working on a temporary contract which had an end date. On this basis, under section 5 of the policy conditions, I would not be eligible for the unemployment cover sold to me. The adviser in branch was made fully aware of my employment status, but still advised that we would be covered.
   

 

1. I was also clearly advised that if I suffered with any health condition that prevented me
   

from working, my loan repayments would be covered. However I later noticed that this did

not include any illness / disability arising from any existing medical condition. (Exclusions

stated in section 4b, 7, & 8 of the policy conditions)

 

 

These are the main reasons why the product was completely unsuitable for our needs. There were also a few more terms which excluded us from claiming. This policy was still sold to us despite the branch adviser having full knowledge of our circumstances.

 

 

We were also made to believe that we would not be accepted for the loan if we did not take out the insurance. Is this correct?

 

 

We decided to try and cancel the insurance attached to this loan. In the policy conditions section 11 part 2 it states ' After the first 30 days you can cancel your cover at any time' I contacted Halifax Personal loans who advised it had nothing to do with them, and provided me with the contact telephone number of Halifax Insurance Ireland Limited instead. I contacted Halifax Insurance Ireland Ltd who advised they could not cancel the insurance, only Halifax Personal Loans could.

 

 

After a number of days of telephone calls, and eventually speaking to supervisors in your personal loans department we were informed that the only way to remove the insurance, was to replace the loan with a new one.

 

 

We applied for a replacement loan without insurance, and were quoted an interest rate of more than double the existing rate on our loan. This was less than 60 days after our initial loan commenced and your loan sale was no longer in effect. We felt forced to keep this unsuitable insurance on the loan as it was not cost affective to replace the loan as suggested. We, of course complained repeatedly to you stating this was not fair and questioned why you could not give us the same rate and just remove the insurance. Your response was that replacing the loan was the only way, and you could not amend the new quoted rate of interest. We applied a few more times in future months hoping to achieve a rate that would be cost affective to replace the loan and remove the insurance. Unfortunately this never happened, and we were stuck with insurance that was unsuitable and not required by us. However the insurance policy booklet clearly stated that the insurance could be cancelled at any time! It did not state that you would have to take a higher interest rate or even be declined to replace the loan"

 

Maybe it was the strength of the overall complaint that made them feel they had to pay out for something?

[domjkb]

Going back to my earlier post, are you aware of how and when I am allowed to amend the claim? If this is required is it too late to wait to see if they file a defense? Can't find much information about when you can amend on the money claim user guides? Perhaps I should give them a ring? No news today by the way.

[BankFodder]

OK.

it is so close to the date upon which they have the file their defence that you may as well wait and see what they say before deciding what action to take.

 

what evidence of any of the allegations that you are making here have you actually got in writing or by way of record telephone calls?

 

However in the meanwhile I think that you should send off an SAR requesting all information that they hold in relation to you concerning the loan, the PPI and including any investigation or any other matter relating to your complaint. Make it clear that you want personal data in any form including correspondence internal memos screen notes any records of telephone conversations whether on computer or on paper. I would suggest that you get this SAR of straightaway. It will cost you £10. It will take up to 40 days for them to reply which is why you may as well get going now.

 

How much did it cost you to start this action? In addition to considering amending your claim, you could also consider starting again.

 

You should be suing for the return of money paid under a mistake.

[domjkb]

Thanks again Bankfodder!

 

I telephoned Halifax and requested this information. I firstly just contacted CS for loans and they were very unhelpful. They said they did not have information this far back, and would not know where to start in getting this for me. Only suggested I contact the legal team which she had no telephone number for! Also said that she could also not provide information if I was in legal proceedings with them! I obvioulsy stated that it is my right to request the information at least six years back...but did no good! So I called customer relations to request. The person I spoke to said he would pass my request to the person who had been initially dealing with my complaint, and make the necessary arrangements for this to be done. I requested a call back from my initial complaints manager to confirm this has been actioned and to take payment where required.

 

I will wait for a response like you said and go from there. I will contact the courts to check how late an amendment to the claim can be done. Unless anyone knows?

 

Cheers

[BankFodder]

Don't expect to get anything by phone enquiry. You have to send an SAR which puts them under a stautory duty. Do it now.