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    • I apologise if I was being unclear. Where it currently stands is that they will have it repair, placing scaffolding in our garden for 5 days. They have moved fast, but we will still have to postpone our contractors, meaning, we won't necessarily have the work done in time for the wedding and therefore will incur additional expenses for either a marquee or a wedding venue. They are vehemently against having any kind of liability in any regard but continue repeating that they are legally entitled to use our garden for their repairs (I believe this is true unless the work can be carried out using a cherry picker). The neighbour seems either indifferent or oblivious to the fact they can't reach all of the side of the roof from the space where they can place the scaffolding. They have asked their roofer of choice about using a cherry picker but the roofer has said it wasn't possible. It's not clear whether the roofer doesn't want to use a cherry picker or whether there is an issue with it. They have told us it is a problem that we are installing a gazebo as it will prevent them to access their roof from our garden in the future?!?  
    • Couldn't agree more, really wanted a true ruling on this just for the knowledge but pretty sure the Judge made some decisions today that he didn't need to?.. maybe they all go this way on the day? We hear back so few post court dates I'm not sure. Each Judge has some level of discretion. Their sol was another Junior not even working at their Firm, so couldn't speak directly for them! that was fortunate I think because if she would have rejected in court better, she might have  been able to force ruling, we are at that point!, everybody there!!, Judge basically said openly that he can see everything for Judgement!!!  but she just said "I can speak to the claimant and find out!" - creating the opportunity for me to accept. I really think the Judge did me a favor today by saying it without saying it. Knowing the rep for the sol couldn't really speak to the idea in the moment. Been to court twice in a fortnight, on both occasions heard 4 times with others and both of my claims, the clerk mention to one or both parties "Letting the Judge know if you want to have a quick chat with each other"! So, it appears there's an expectation of the court that there is one last attempt at settling before going through the door. So, not a Sol tactic, just Court process!. Judge was not happy we hadn't tried to settle outside! We couldn't because she went to the loo and the Judge called us in 10 minutes early! - another reason to stand down to allow that conv to happen. Stars aligned there for me I think. But yeh, if the sol themselves, or someone who can make decisions on the case were in court, I would have received a Judgement against today I think. She was an 'advocate'.. if I recall her intro to me correctly.. So verbal arguments can throw spanners in Court because Plinks dogs outsource their work and send a Junior advocate.
    • that was a good saving on an £8k debt dx
    • Find out how the UK general elections works, how to register to vote, and what to do on voting day.View the full article
    • "We suffer more in imagination than in reality" - really pleased this all happened. Settled by TO, full amount save as to costs and without interest claimed. I consider this a success but feel free to move this thread to wherever it's appropriate. I say it's a success because when I started this journey I was in a position of looking to pay interest on all these accounts, allowing them to default stopped that and so even though I am paying the full amount, it is without a doubt reduced from my position 3 years ago and I feel knowing this outcome was possible, happy to gotten this far, defended myself in person and left with a loan with terms I could only dream of, written into law as interest free! I will make better decisions in the future on other accounts, knowing key stages of this whole process. We had the opportunity to speak in court, Judge (feels like just before a ruling) was clear in such that he 'had all the relevant paperwork to make a judgement'. He wasn't pleased I hadn't settled before Court.. but then stated due to WS and verbal arguments on why I haven't settled, from my WS conclusion as follows: "11. The Defendant was not given ample evidence to prove the debt and therefore was not required to enter settlement negotiations. Should the debt be proved in the future, the Defendant is willing to enter such negotiations with the Claimant. "  He offered to stand down the case to give us chance to settle and that that was for my benefit specifically - their Sols didn't want to, he asked me whether I wanted to proceed to judgement or be given the opportunity to settle. Naturally, I snapped his hand off and we entered negotiations (took about 45 minutes). He added I should get legal advice for matters such as these. They were unwilling to agree to a TO unless it was full amount claimed, plus costs, plus interest. Which I rejected as I felt that was unfair in light of the circumstances and the judges comments, I then countered with full amount minus all costs and interest over 84 months. They accepted that. I believe the Judge wouldn't have been happy if they didn't accept a payment plan for the full amount, at this late stage. The judge was very impressed by my articulate defence and WS (Thanks CAG!) he respected that I was wiling to engage with the process but commented only I  can know whether this debt is mine, but stated that Civil cases were based on balance of probabilities, not without shadow of a doubt, and all he needs to determine is whether the account existed. Verbal arguments aside; he has enough evidence in paperwork for that. He clarified that a copy of a DN and NOA is sufficient proof based on balance of probabilities that they were served. I still disagree, but hey, I'm just me.. It's definitely not strict proof as basically I have to prove the negative (I didn't receive them/they were not served), which is impossible. Overall, a great result I think! BT  
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

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      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Stan1 v Lloyds TSB ***WON***


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Hi All,

 

Excellent site - if I'm successful in my action against Lloyds then I hope there're easy instructions on how to donate the 5%...!

 

I delivered my S.A.R. (Subject Access Request) letter, by hand, to my local branch today. I've been with Lloyds since around 1992, although I rang them up to find out when my account changed to a student account and they told me May 1997. As such, I requested a list of all charges (or all statements) etc. from May 1997 until present day. I've looked at my charges online and I've been fined £500 since July 2002 (as far back as you can look online).

 

I will therefore be claiming from around 9 years back; if anyone thinks I should stick to just 6 years and do a claim for anything before that seperately, then please let me know.

 

Thanks!

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Hi Stan,

 

Don't take my word for it but I'm pretty sure I've read some advice given to somebody in a similiar position to you. They were told to seperate the claims, so claim for 6 years first and then once that is finished attempt to claim for the earlier charges.

 

Good luck. Lucid :)

Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB

*Won unconditionally with contractual interest (29.85% compounded)

Lucid's Account - £749.62 * Joint Account - £2019.64 * Mindzai's Account - £595.65

*All settled in full - 6/2/07

*Hearings - 7/2/07

*Prelims sent - 9/8/06

_______

GOT A COURT DATE? A guide to the later stages

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Thanks for your responses. I will wait until I receive all details of my charges and read around a bit more before I make the final decision. At the moment, however, I'm inclined to make a single claim for the entire amount. Like I said though, more reading to do....

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Like some others on here, I'm having a little difficulty with understanding how/what/etc. interest charges can be claimed back. This has nothing to do with the 8% rate applied when you reach the moneyclaim stage, rather the fact my account has been constantly overdrawn for as long as I can remember and Lloyds have charged me interest on this (if the total sum of charges hadn't been applied in the first place, I wouldn't have been overdrawn).

 

Can I include in my inital claim the amount of interest they've charged me over the years for these unlawful charges? Apologies if this has been dealt with 000s of time before but I've been unable to find any specific reference to it! If someone could direct me to a link explaining some of this I'd be very grateful.

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Re. my previous post: I found the info I was looking for! Will be using the template spreadsheet, but changing the rate to the 18% that Lloyds have charged me for each charge that's been applied to my account and made me more overdrawn.

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Hi Stan,

 

Overdraft interest is a sticky area. Some people will advise you to go for it, others will tell you to stay away for simplicity's sake.

 

Personally, I'm one of the latter. You can't, unfortunately, arbitrarily claim for the full overdraft interest you've ever been charged - the interest on overdraft amounts which are from valid overdraft usage are unfortunately lawful, so if you attempt to claim them back your case could get struck out of court.

 

However, if you claim for the o/d interest proportionally to the amount of overdraft which is down to penalties then you will be okay. As an example, say you have a £100 o/d up to the limit, and you are charged £10 interest. £70 of the overdraft is legitimate, £30 is penalties - you could therefore claim £3 back.

 

Personally, I ignored the o/d interest and just went for the 8% in my first claim.

reload vs Lloyds - £2703.11 Settlement Reached 14/07/06.

reload vs Lloyds Round 2 - Prelim sent 27/03/07. £435 owed.

reload vs Capital One - £456.57 Settlement Reached 14/07/06.

reload's mum vs Barclays - £745 owed. £375 partial settlement reached 17/10/06.

Lloyds Bank - The Template Response Letters!

 

Advice & opinions of reload are offered informally, without prejudice and without liability. Please use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any doubts.

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Thanks for the advice Reload - I hear where you're coming from. I've spent nearly the entire last 6 years being overdrawn and charged for it. Whilst that in itself is absolutely fine by me, when I factor in the amount of unlawful charges I've had applied to my account from years ago and being charged overdraft interest for them too, then I feel that to claim some back may be valid. However, I wouldn't want that to jeopardise my main point of action.

 

I definitely need to think about this some more and read around. When I've discovered exactly how much in unlawful charges has been applied to my account over the years, I'll attempt to work out the interest I've paid on those charges and take it from there.

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If it helps, there is a spreadsheet available in the Bank Templates Library - the advanced spreadsheet - which Vampiress put together. May well be of help to you :)

reload vs Lloyds - £2703.11 Settlement Reached 14/07/06.

reload vs Lloyds Round 2 - Prelim sent 27/03/07. £435 owed.

reload vs Capital One - £456.57 Settlement Reached 14/07/06.

reload's mum vs Barclays - £745 owed. £375 partial settlement reached 17/10/06.

Lloyds Bank - The Template Response Letters!

 

Advice & opinions of reload are offered informally, without prejudice and without liability. Please use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any doubts.

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  • 1 month later...

My statements arrived and I calculated that I have been charged £900 since 2000. I sent in my Prelim letter via email on 9th October.

 

Weirdly enough, I received another batch of statements this weekend going all the way back to 1997. There were an extra £800 of charges on those. I now plan to add these to my inital schedule of charges when it's time for me to send in my LBA, around 23rd October.

 

I know people have said it's probably best to do 2 separate claims, but I'm going to push ahead for all of my charges I've incurred on my account, even those ones from longer than 6 years ago. I don't believe the Statute of Limitations should apply as I have an ongoing contract with Lloyds. I will also argue that the Statute of Limitations shouldn't apply anyway as I was unaware at the time that the charges they were applying to my account were unlawful.

 

Any help or advice in this would be much appreciated. I'm going to continue to read around this site and look for all the info I can.

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I know the contractual interest charged on these unlawful charges can get quite complicated. From 1st January 2004 to now, I have been overdrawn by more than the total of unlawful charges,with overdraft interest being charged at 18.40% APR. To simplify matters, I am going to claim back overdraft interest from the total of all charges up to 1st January 2004. That means I'll be claiming back overdraft interest on £1418 (made up of unlawful charges) which has been charged to my account from 1st January 2004 to now. I hope I'm making sense! Any thoughts on this? Technically, Lloyds owes me more than that - can I jeopardise my case by simplifying things even if it means I'm claiming less than I could do from them?

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  • 2 months later...

Haven't updated this for a while. Just thought I'd let everyone know that I've been set a date for an Allocation Hearing at my local court, on Monday 15th January 2007.

 

My claim includes charges beyond the 6 years and also includes contractual interest. Hopefully these additions to my claim won't mean I'll become one of the first test cases! As usual with people at this stage, the nerves/paranoia are beginning to kick-in and I'm starting to convince myself that I'll be the first person to go to court and lose! Everything's gone to plan so far, so it's basically all about sitting tight for the next 19 days or so and checking my post and online balance regularly.

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Hi Stan.

Have LTSB picked up on the pre-six years element of your claim in their defence? Or, for that matter, the contractual interest?

 

Did you request alternatives to contractual interest in your claim?

 

Elsinore

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Hi Stan.

Have LTSB picked up on the pre-six years element of your claim in their defence? Or, for that matter, the contractual interest?

 

Did you request alternatives to contractual interest in your claim?

 

Elsinore

Hi Elsinore,

 

No, Lloyds haven't mentioned the pre-six years element or the contractual interest in their defence.

 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you talk about requesting alternatives to contracual interest in my claim? I attempted to simplify the whole contracual interest part of the claim in the spreadsheet particulars by totalling all charges up to January 2004, and then claiming the contracual interest they've charged me since then (I've been overdrawn by more than the sum of those charges for the enitrety of the time since then, January 2004 - present).

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Hi Gary,

 

Do you know if Lloyds and/or their legal representatives tend to turn up to the Allocation Hearings? I have one on 15th January. I haven't been directed by the judge to bring anything with me - should I assume I'll need the full court bundle, or is that only for the Final Hearing?

 

Many thanks,

 

Stan

 

Hi Stan:)

 

Coincidentally, I've actually got an allocation hearing today myself - 12:15. Not v Lloyds though, Abbey.

 

They're nothing to worry about at all. Nothing can be won or lost on that day so there is'nt any real pressure on you. They are just to decide on which track your claim should be allocated to and what directions should be ordered, etc.

 

You won't need the court bundle, although it would be advisable to brush up on your knowledge of the legal basis of your claim, just in case the judge asks any general questions.

 

You need to go ready to argue that the claim should be allocated to the small claims track. Here are the main arguements which I'll be using at mine today -

 

POINTS FOR ALLOCATION TO THE SMALL CLAIMS TRACK

 

 

 

1. It is a consumer dispute

The small claims track is designed particularly for consumers.

 

 

 

2. The claim is well below the 5K threshold.

As the claim is well below 5k, you filed it believing that it would be dealt with in the small claims track.

 

 

3. CPR Overriding objectives

Under the overriding objectives of the Civil Procedure Rules, the court has an obligation to ensure both parties are on an even footing. The Defendant is one of the largest financial institutions in the UK. The Claimant is an ordinary consumer. It is submitted that to allocate this claim to any other track than that of small claims would create a huge imbalance between the parties in that the costs risk to the Defendant is completely insignificant, whereas to the Claimant it could potentially mean financial ruin.

 

You can also propose directions for the court to consider ordering. Take along a copy (well 3 copies actually) of BF's draft order as per this thread - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/53570-new-strategy-allocation-questionaires.html.

 

I would say its very unlikely that Lloyds will turn up, although not inconceivable. They don't usually. In my application hearing against them they sent a letter instead! In most cases though they have settled beforehand, so this may actually still be the case for you.

 

As I said, its certainly nothing to worry about, in fact it'll be good experiance of the small claims court in a situation where you have no real pressure on you.

 

Be polite and punctual - call the judge sir or madam, be on time and well prepared. You'll find that small claims court is very informal. No big court rooms or judges in wigs as you may imagion. Its just a small office type room with the judge and both parties sat around a table. Its designed to be accessible by normal people as opposed to being exclusive to lawyers and legal jargon, etc. You'll be fine.

 

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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No, Lloyds haven't mentioned the pre-six years element or the contractual interest in their defence

 

That's good.

 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you talk about requesting alternatives to contracual interest in my claim?

 

In the event that a judge threw out your claim for contractual interest, have you asked for interest at a lesser rate i.e. 8%?

 

Elsinore

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No, Lloyds haven't mentioned the pre-six years element or the contractual interest in their defence

 

That's good.

 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you talk about requesting alternatives to contracual interest in my claim?

 

In the event that a judge threw out your claim for contractual interest, have you asked for interest at a lesser rate i.e. 8%?

 

Elsinore

No, I haven't specified any alternatives. I actually didn't think of that. Hmmm. Oh well, I've got an Allocation Hearing in just over a couple of weeks, so maybe it'll come up then. Better get reading...

 

Thanks for your input, Elsinore.:)

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Yes, you could but you'd need a formal application on an N244 form. This would cost you a non-refundable £35 fee. If you decided to do this I would get it in straight away - any applications are supposed to be sorted out before allocation, apparently. Alternitively you could request it at the allocation hearing (if it does get that far) and see what the judge says - I'm not sure whether this would be deemed acceptable or not though to be honest.

 

(BTW, Abbey did'nt turn up earlier - I got a judgement awarded in my favour!! Woohoo!:D)

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Yes, you could but you'd need a formal application on an N244 form. This would cost you a non-refundable £35 fee. If you decided to do this I would get it in straight away - any applications are supposed to be sorted out before allocation, apparently. Alternitively you could request it at the allocation hearing (if it does get that far) and see what the judge says - I'm not sure whether this would be deemed acceptable or not though to be honest.

 

(BTW, Abbey did'nt turn up earlier - I got a judgement awarded in my favour!! Woohoo!:D)

Excellent stuff re. Abbey! Waht happens now then? Can you send in the bailiffs?!

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Cheers! It was a Data Protection Act non-compliance claim. They now have 14 days to send the microfiche account information and pay up the court fee and small amount in damages. They could still apply to get the judgement set aside though, so I'm not going to celebrate too soon!

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, it's only a few days now until my Allocation Hearing - Monday 15th January. Obviously I'd prefer to get a settlement before then, but I'm happy to attend court too, knowing that it can only speed up any offer from SCM/Lloyds.:)

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Ok, so I'm now prepared for my Allocation Hearing on Monday 15th Jan. Checked my account and post several times today - nothing's arrived. Anyone else in the same boat? Anyone got an Allocation or Prelim Hearing on Monday? Anyone been to one against Lloyds?

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