Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • I found that the parkin attended has a car with CCTV camera on it, however as I stated earlier, it seems that he did not take video of my car otherwise they would have stated so in the SAR. parking car .pdf
    • The rules state that "approved devices may only be used in limited circumstances"  I was not a threat. I was not present. I did not drive away. I think he has not fulfilled the necessary requirements justifying issuing me a PCN by post therefore the PCN was issued incorrectly and not valid.  What are your thoughts?  
    • I have also found this:  D.2 Service of a PCN by post: 54) There are some circumstances in which a PCN (under Regulation 10) may be served by post: 1) where the contravention has been detected on the basis of evidence from an approved device (approved devices may only be used in limited circumstances) 2) if the CEO has been prevented, for example by force, threats of force, obstruction or violence, from serving the PCN either by affixing it to the vehicle or by giving it to the person who appears to be in charge of that vehicle 3) if the CEO had started to issue the PCN but did not have enough time to finish or serve it before the vehicle was driven away and would otherwise have to write off or cancel the PCN 55) In any of these circumstances a PCN is served by post to the owner and also acts as the NtO. The Secretary of State recommends that postal PCNs should be sent within 14 days of the contravention. Legislation states that postal PCNs must be sent within 28 days, unless otherwise stated in the Regulations. This from London Councils Code of Practice on Civil Parking Enforcement.  The question is what is an approved device? Certainly, he had the opportunity to place the ticket on my car and I didn't drive away.  I looked further and it seems that an approved device is a CCTV camera - It seems that the photos taken were not actual film but images and it is not clear if they are taken from a video or are stills. I'm guessing if it was moving images then the SAR would have stated this.    From the Borough of Hounslow website: "There are two types of PCN issued under the Traffic Management Act 2004, which governs parking contraventions. The first is served on-street by a Civil Enforcement Officer, who will observe a vehicle and collect evidence before serving the PCN either by placing it in a plastic wallet under the windscreen wiper, or by handing it to the driver. The second is a PCN served by post, based on CCTV footage taken by an approved device, which has been reviewed by a trained CCTV Operator."   From Legislation.gov.uk regarding approved devices: Approved Devices 4.  A device is an approved device for the purposes of these Regulations if it is of a type which has been certified by the Secretary of State as one which meets requirements specified in Schedule 1. SCHEDULE 1Specified requirements for approved devices 1.  The device must include a camera which is— (a)securely mounted on a vehicle, a building, a post or other structure, (b)mounted in such a position that vehicles in relation to which relevant road traffic contraventions are being committed can be surveyed by it, (c)connected by secure data links to a recording system, and (d)capable of producing in one or more pictures, a legible image or images of the vehicle in relation to which a relevant road traffic contravention was committed which show its registration mark and enough of its location to show the circumstances of the contravention. 2.  The device must include a recording system in which— (a)recordings are made automatically of the output from the camera or cameras surveying the vehicle and the place where a contravention is occurring, (b)there is used a secure and reliable recording method that records at a minimum rate of 5 frames per second, (c)each frame of all captured images is timed (in hours, minutes and seconds), dated and sequentially numbered automatically by means of a visual counter, and (d)where the device does not occupy a fixed location, it records the location from which it is being operated. 3.  The device and visual counter must— (a)be synchronised with a suitably independent national standard clock; and (b)be accurate within plus or minus 10 seconds over a 14-day period and re-synchronised to the suitably independent national standard clock at least once during that period. 4.  Where the device includes a facility to print a still image, that image when printed must be endorsed with the time and date when the frame was captured and its unique number. 5.  Where the device can record spoken words or other audio data simultaneously with visual images, the device must include a means of verifying that, in any recording produced by it, the sound track is correctly synchronised with the visual image.
    • Hearing took place today.  Case dismissed with costs awarded. Neither UKPC or a representative turned up.  Apparently they messaged the court on 7 May asking for their case to be considered on paper.  Never informed me, which was criticised by the judge as not following procedure.  I was really annoyed as I would have preferred for the case to be thrown out before the hearing, or at least face them in court and see them squeal.   They are just playing a numbers game and hope you blink 1st!   Ended up having to change my flight, but  the costs awarded softens the blow. Was asked to confirm it was my signature on both the witness statement and supplementary statement.  Wasn't asked to read them, said she could see my arguments made and the signs were insufficient and no contract formed. Took maybe 10 mins in total.  Judge did most of the talking and was best for me just to keep quiet or confirm any statements made. Happy to have won as a matter of principle and have costs awarded. Maybe not worth all the time and hassle for any newbies or the technologically challenged.  But if you are stubborn like me and willing to put in the time and effort, you can beat these vultures! I big shout out to everyone who helped on the thread with their advice and guidance, special mention to FTMDave, thank you sir!  Really appreciate everyone's efforts. All the best!
    • I plan to be honest to avoid any further trouble, tell them that the name should be changed to my official name
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
        • Like
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
        • Like
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4775 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

"Parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle."

 

I am not sure whether I have contravened but in place I parked, a friend and I checked the signs and they clearly showed, at the time, it was outside any controlling hours and there was no mention of designated class of vehicle. So question?

 

If I did park in the alleged space, would I still be liable for payment whether I have parked outside the designated time or not?

In addition, no PCN was attached to my windscreen, and I was posted a letter highlighting the incident. I presume therefore any PCN was not served correctly?

Finally, if I parked in the space, PCN was served, although I dispute, and I am liable for payment, should I not be entitled to a discount? This was not offered and I have demanded to pay the full £120. Legally am I entitled to a discount?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Post up the letter you got sent with the VRM removed.

 

You are not entitled to a discount as from what you say you missed the discount period. If this was due to 'no PCN being served' the PCN should be contested, if it was served but removed or fell off before you noticed it theres little you can do as far as discount is concerned.

 

If it was outside restricted hours then the PCN was issued wrongly. I cannot see how the sign cannot state it was for a designated class of vehicle....what did it actually say?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi thanks for the reply. I will check the sign today to verify this. will upload a photo for reference and a summary of the letter.

As for no discount, no PCN was attached and any notification was made by post.

I presume, you are saying this on the basis, the PCN was attached?

Link to post
Share on other sites

What I'm saying is at this point only one person actually knows if the PCN was attatched or not and that is the CEO. If you had been there and left whilst the CEO was there you could argue no PCN was served but until you determine what evidence the Council has regarding service, you cannot state no PCN was attatched to the vehicle at the time of contravention.

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK,

 

It looks like I am at fault. The sign, although small, does say buses and coaches only.

sign.jpg

 

I am at fault but I did not receive a PCN and I have been posted a NOTICE TO OWNER.

 

If I can challenge whether the serving of the PCN was made correctly I presume I may default to the maximum fine of £120?

 

Something tells me I should pay, but I was unaware I was at fault and missed the discount deadline. £120 down the drain is a lot of money to throw. Any advise?

 

Thanks

 

Colin

Link to post
Share on other sites

That is not a parking sign its 'how to pay' there should be a proper traffic sign? Since you have lost the discount (rightly or wrongly) you have nothing to lose than to go all the way to adjudication.

Therefore if you want help we need...

 

location

copy of NTO

photo of sign (if you are local)

 

when did you get the NTO so we know how long you have to get the appeal in?

 

Was it in Westminster as we already have one appeal in progress...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?273712-code-23c&highlight=23c

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes it was in Westminster except on this occasion it was on a Saturday at around 820pm. It did have a sign with:

 

The top half of the sign shows coach parking fees in action for 8.30am-midnight and no parking for coaches midnight -8.am in the lower section.

 

the middle sections shows parking restrictions in action for the monday to friday and the saturday. at no point does the sign show no car parking.

 

on these grounds incorrect sinage should get you off the ticket.

 

But I found it confusing and agree that it did not state no cars. It was dark, and having went to the bay today, noticed the Bus road markings. I did not see these, again, it was starts to get dark at this time and one would like for any OBVIOUS signs, at the same eye level. These are some additional pics:

 

road_markings.jpg

 

I was parked near the bikes at the rear. Usually, there would be white tram lines similar to this:

 

tram_lines.jpg

 

So one would look for signs. This is what I had in front of me too:

 

road-sign.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at the photos, it does appear to have a PCN attached but it WASN't there when I arrived and I have a witness as I mentioned I was with a friend!!!

 

Anyone successfully challenged on the grounds of unclear signage before?

 

car_front_no_tram_lines.jpg

 

You can see from the position of the car, I was unaware of any BUS road markings

Edited by colinliu2010
Link to post
Share on other sites

I would suggest an appeal based on the fact its red route and excluded from Westminsters enforcement area.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1994/1504/schedule/1/made

 

The Whitehall Parking Enforcement Area Excluded from the Special Parking Area Comprising Those Roads and Parts of Roads Described in Part II of this Schedule

1. Abbey Orchard Street, from its junction with Victoria Street, south for 40m, from the Victoria Street kerbline.

2. Abingdon Street (A3212).

3. Barton Street.

4. Brewer’s Green.

5. Bridge Street.

6. Broad Sanctuary.

7. Broadway.

8. Buckingham Gate (B323), from its junction with Birdcage Walk, south to its junction with Victoria Street.

9. Butler Place.

10. Cannon Row.

11. Carteret Street.

12. Caxton Street.

13. Cowley Street.

14. Craig’s Court.

15. Dacre Street.

16. Dartmouth Street.

17. Dean Farrar Street.

18. Dean’s Yard.

19. Derby Gate.

20. Downing Street.

21. Ermin’s Hill.

22. Great College Street.

23. Great Peter Street from the north side kerbline, to the centre line of the carriageway, from its junction with Marsham Street to Millbank.

24. Great Scotland Yard.

25. Great Smith Street (B326).

26. Great George Street (A3214).

27. Horse Guards Avenue.

28. King Charles Street.

29. Lewisham Street.

30. Little College Street.

31. Little George Street.

32. Little Sanctuary.

33. Little Smith Street.

34. Matthew Parker Street.

35. Millbank (A3212), from its junction with Dean Stanley Street north to its junction with Abingdon Street.

36. New Scotland Yard.

37. Northumberland Avenue (A400), from the south side kerbline, to the centre line of the carriageway.

38. Old Queen Street.

39. Old Palace Yard (A3212).

40. Palmer Street.

41. Parliament Square.

42. Parliament Street.

43. Petty France.

44. Queen Anne’s Gate.

45. Richmond Terrace.

46. Richmond Terrace Mews.

47. Saint Margaret Street (A3212).

48. Scotland Place.

49. Spring Gardens, from its junction with The Mall, southwards.

50. Storey’s Gate.

51. The Sanctuary.

52. Tothill Street.

53. Treasury Passage.

54. Tufton Street, from its junction with Great College Street south to its junction with Great Peter Street.

55. Vandon Passage.

56. Vandon Street.

57. Victoria Embankment (A3211), from Westminster Bridge to its junction with Northumberland Avenue.

58. Victoria Street (A302), from its junction with Buckingham Gate, east to its junction with Broad Sanctuary.

59. Westminster Bridge (A302).

60. Whitehall (A3212).

61. Whitehall Court.

62. Whitehall Place.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As G & M points out, there is another thread similar to this to which we have yet to hear what the outcome was. I'm guessing that you were parked in the 'coach/bus bays' in Park Lane. Unfortunatley there is no on street parking available for cars in Park Lane which is why there is a 24hr NCP underground car park there. The bays in which you appear to have parked are restricted to coaches/buses only and have been as such for many years. I agree that the signs are not as obvious as they could be so perhaps they need challenging. However, I would be surprised if that hasn't happened before as this is a very hot spot for enforcement so I would imagine scores of PCN's have been issued here over the years.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Appreciate your feedbacks. i was actually parked on Victoria Embankment (A3211), close to Embankment station.

 

The signs are unclear and one can misinterrupt the signs easily. Attached are also road markings on the area, without the white tam lines, compared to the markings down the road close to Big Ben, is unclear and does not clearly show they are bus only.

 

So, based on the unclear signage, and highlighting "The Whitehall Parking Enforcement Area Excluded from the Special Parking Area Comprising Those Roads and Parts of Roads Described in Part II of this Schedule", I will based my challenge on these facts. In addition, I have a witness that can verify there was no PCN attached although the photos contradict this.

 

Hope this helps!!!

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at the list above, from Westminster Bridge to its junction with Northumberland Avenue.

 

I actually parked past Northumberland Street. Near Embankment Station opposite the Victoria Embankment park. Looks like I can not challenge based on this information?

 

Will challenge based on unclear signage and road markings. Since 50 yards down the road there are clear markings saying BUSES ONLY, CYCLES Only and MOTORCYCLES ONLY and one can easily overlook! 10 yards in front of my car, there is red route, why would I not park there if i had known!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Hi Guys,

 

Just a quick update. Not surprisingly, they rejected my appeal and now it's to the adjudicator.

 

I have come across this article and think it may help my case.

www ticketfighter co uk/parking.htm

 

Although it did not mention buses, Pay and display, limited stay, motorcycle, doctor, residents and business permit parking bays

 

I assume this is true for buses too?

 

I will now resort to the adjudicator. Do you think it is viable for some form of compensation?

 

Thanks All again

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Guys,

 

Just a quick update. Not surprisingly, they rejected my appeal and now it's to the adjudicator.

 

I have come across this article and think it may help my case.

www ticketfighter co uk/parking.htm

 

Although it did not mention buses, Pay and display, limited stay, motorcycle, doctor, residents and business permit parking bays

 

I assume this is true for buses too?

 

I will now resort to the adjudicator. Do you think it is viable for some form of compensation?

 

Thanks All again

 

For what exactly?

 

There does not appear to be any bay marked on the road surface apart from the word 'Buses'. I would suggest that you have a reasonable chance of getting the ticket cancelled but i'm not sure that you will get any compensation.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's clearly obvious the authority have taken advantage and from yourself, even you are saying it is very likely the PCN will be cancelled.

 

Compensation.....the stresses, time for research and how clearly westminster is in the act of fraud and taking full advantage of drivers' minimal knowledge!!!!!!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I will now resort to the adjudicator. Do you think it is viable for some form of compensation?

 

Compensation.....the stresses, time for research and how clearly westminster is in the act of fraud and taking full advantage of drivers' minimal knowledge!!!!!!!!

 

Then no, not a chance!

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh and I think in this case .... council acts frivolously

 

Then that may be a case for costs but not compensation.

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

My car was towed away in London after 6 min observation as one wheel was in motorbikes only bay. Can they do it so quicly? I had a valid ticket for the space that the (rest of the) car was parked. I paid £50 for PCN and £200 for release. I am going to challenge it, I think.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My car was towed away in London after 6 min observation as one wheel was in motorbikes only bay. Can they do it so quicly? I had a valid ticket for the space that the (rest of the) car was parked. I paid £50 for PCN and £200 for release. I am going to challenge it, I think.

 

Start your own thread and post the paperwork such as PCN and release forms.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...