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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Advice/Guidance- Bought a Faulty Car **Updated**


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Hi All,

 

I've just had a response from the trader in it he claimed that I travelled the distance for the car as I knew it was good value (which is incorrect as I paid £400 over the book price on the belief it was a 'stunning' car as described by him) and also the fact he gave me a good part -ex for my old car(admittedly he did £600 more than the book price, but other traders were also offering over book price valuations for part ex for their vehicles). Is this relevant?

 

He also stated that the car is 6 years old and has done over 100000 miles hence everything isnt as as new, which I accept, but that doesnt mean that I should have to accept his car with some faults (and these are big faults if they were small I would have have just taken the hit)?- esp as he did not disclose any?

 

He also talks of the fact hes already spent £600 repairing already and that he spent £250 on my part ex (well so I'm led to believe- I have no way of verifying this) and states that I was happy with the car when I took it back (which is incorrect he left the car at a petrol station to collect as the garage was closing and I needed the vehicle).

 

Finally he says he is willing to investigate the faults and discuss the findings with myself and it would be helpful if I can get something in writing to help point them in the right direction of where the faults are ( I suspect he wants me to conduct a further diagnostics at my cost-like I did before).

 

To be frank I am sick of all this - the car is sat on my driveway undrivable and has been for almost 4 weeks and I dont trust the guy as he doesnt seem like he is willing to repair the faults and wants to 'discuss' the findings.....

 

I want to now send him a letter to state that I am not satisfied with his response and will have the car repaired myself and sent him the bill. Am I still within my rights to ask for this? or Do I have to be seen as 'reasonable' and go back to him (200 miles away) even though I've already given him the opportunity to repair?- as he is offering to investigate?

 

Can someone help me with my letter if I post it here (I will remove any sensitive info)?

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Hopefully Sailor Sam will find his way here shortly as he is good on the letters.

 

As far as repairs go, you will be seen as within your rights to get the car repaired by your garage as you have already had the car to the seller for repairs that have not been succesful, the fact that the seller is some distance away and that the car is in your opinion undriveable - just be aware as mentioned before that in doing so you will be deemed to have accepted the car.

 

I'm sure you are aware that whatever the bill amount the seller will probably dispute at least some of it, but it would appear to be the quickest and least stressful way of resolving the situation, even if financially it may not end up being the most cost effective.

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I've just had a response from the trader in it he claimed that I travelled the distance for the car as I knew it was good value (which is incorrect as I paid £400 over the book price on the belief it was a 'stunning' car as described by him) and also the fact he gave me a good part -ex for my old car(admittedly he did £600 more than the book price, but other traders were also offering over book price valuations for part ex for their vehicles). Is this relevant?
Nope, not one bit. He obviously didn't sell you the car under duress, so his statutory obligations remain intact.

 

He also stated that the car is 6 years old and has done over 100000 miles hence everything isnt as as new, which I accept, but that doesnt mean that I should have to accept his car with some faults (and these are big faults if they were small I would have have just taken the hit)?- esp as he did not disclose any?
Nail - Head.

 

He also talks of the fact hes already spent £600 repairing already and that he spent £250 on my part ex (well so I'm led to believe- I have no way of verifying this) and states that I was happy with the car when I took it back (which is incorrect he left the car at a petrol station to collect as the garage was closing and I needed the vehicle).
:violin: :violin: :violin:

 

Finally he says he is willing to investigate the faults and discuss the findings with myself and it would be helpful if I can get something in writing to help point them in the right direction of where the faults are ( I suspect he wants me to conduct a further diagnostics at my cost-like I did before).
:???: and what happens when he doesn't agree with the findings? More time wasting... :roll:

 

To be frank I am sick of all this - the car is sat on my driveway undrivable and has been for almost 4 weeks and I dont trust the guy as he doesnt seem like he is willing to repair the faults and wants to 'discuss' the findings.....

 

I want to now send him a letter to state that I am not satisfied with his response and will have the car repaired myself and sent him the bill. Am I still within my rights to ask for this? or Do I have to be seen as 'reasonable' and go back to him (200 miles away) even though I've already given him the opportunity to repair?- as he is offering to investigate?

 

Can someone help me with my letter if I post it here (I will remove any sensitive info)?

 

No need for the sensitive info, I'll give you an outline and you can just add/tweak the relevant info yourself:

 

Dear Mr XXX,

 

Thank you for your letter dated [date].

 

I am rather disappointed in your reply, which doesn't address my issues as a buyer, which I detailed to you in my previous letter. Instead, you choose to go on how hard done by you have been, none of which is frankly my problem. MY problem is that I have paid a lot of money for a car which doesn't function properly, and that the trader who sold it to me seems to be dragging his feet when it comes to upholding my statutory rights.

 

So as to avoid further prevarications, let me set out clearly what I expect you to do:

 

a - to come and collect the car from [address] within the next 7 days, at your expense, and take it back to your garage/repair shop.

b - to carry out all necessary repairs, at your expense, promptly and properly, so that I am not inconvenienced for any longer than strictly necessary, AND that if problems arise (obtaining parts for example), you will keep me informed regularly with the reasons for the delays.

c - to return the car to me, at your expense, as soon as it is fixed.

 

Please note that none of the above is meant to be taken as behaviour consistent with having accepted the goods as defined under SOGA 1979 (as amended), but merely the chance for you to provide an adequate remedy. Should the car subsequently fail again, please let's be clear that I will have no hesitation in rejecting the goods and demanding a full refund, plus associated costs.

 

I understand of course that you have the choice of remedy, and if you feel that the cost of transport, repairs etc... exceeds the value of the goods, then you have of course the choice to refund me in full (including the part-exchange value of my previous car) and recover this car instead (I think we can both agree that a replacement, the 3rd choice of remedy, would be time-consuming, inconvenient and unsatisfactory for either of us). That is your right under SOGA and I await your decision in the matter, in either case, I expect a response from you detailing your chosen course of action within 7 days of this letter.

 

Should you fail to respond positively, then I will have no choice but to ask my local repairman to deal with the repairs, and will then ask you to pay for these repairs, as well as incidental costs such as hire car etc... through the court system if necessary. I point out that this will still not mean that I accept the car and should it fail again, I still reserve the right to reject and get a full refund from yourself.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

[sign]

 

 

*****************

 

 

Ok? :-)

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Thanks Brazilian/Bookworm your help is greatly appreciated, I will respond with the letter that Bookworm suggested which sounds good.

 

Helios- the car is a bmw 04 plate 320d m sport which had done 107k mileage.

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Hi All,

 

I've just had my 3rd letter from the trader who states that its down to the consumer to bring the vehicle back to the dealer and states that if I was closer he would have borrowed a truck and bought it back...Do I have to take the car to him again as he is offering to inspect (not fix)? Even though I've taken the car to him before?

 

he then goes onto speak about how much of a good deal it was for me as he paid me £600 more for part ex of my old car against the book price (which is true) but he also had his advertised £400 above the book price, so it wasn't a bargain by any means....especially now its had all these faults....

 

He then talks of that he is a one man team and cannot provide the level of service I am requesting (ie to bring my car back to him)....-this maybe true but he has 15 cars for sale with the highest priced car at £15k (including a porsche) -not sure how relevant all this is.... Am I still within my rights to request this as he failed repairing the car successfully the first time?

 

He then states if the car is unsafe to drive now its obviously a wear and tear fault and not an 'inherrent fault' as I drove it back and it had an MOT at the time....

 

Hes asking me to bring the car back and he will diagnose and we will sort something out between ourselves amicably (I doubt he will from how hes approached the whole affair), he states he is sending all his correspondance to consumer direct to avoid future complications and he has now given me a 2nd opportunity to bring back the vehicle......Again do I have to take back?

 

Basically its a repitition of his previous letters and nowhere in the letter does it appear like he will repair the issues I have.....My concern is I believe this will end up in court and I dont want it to appear to the judge that I was being unreasonable (as the trader states hes now given me 2 opportunities to repair, even though his first one was not suficient), as I have been anything but and I have incurred the additional expenses with diagnostics/tracking/travel inconvenience etc....

 

Its been over a month and we seem to be arguing over points in the letters.....

 

Can someone help with a response to this?- I used Bookworms letter earlier which was great...Bookworm?

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Hi All,

 

I sent the trader my final letter early this week stating I will seek a repair myself and want him to reimburse the costs also if I've stated this does not take away my right to reject the car should it develop a fault.

 

I've booked the car in BMW today for a diagnosis of the faults and it went in today.

 

Surprisngly I get a text from the trader today (hes been reluctant to discuss over the fone or by text in the past stating he wants to do it in writing) asking for exact odometer reading? and Asking for a pic? Whats this got to with anything??

 

Firstly I cant do this as its in the garage and secondly should I do this? (as hes been unhelpful in the past).

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi all,

 

Latest update: I've had the car repaired locally and in total its cost me around £1200! (I've kept all receipts used different garages for diagnosis/repair and kept all the old parts). The trader has been in touch suggesting that I didnt give him an opportunity to verify the fault independantly to which I argued its been almost 3 months since I bought the vehicle yet you didnt do that he also suggested that even if I went to court I would get less than half what I paid??- is this true?

 

I've done some reading and it appears the trader can argue 'betterment' for the parts (ie new wishbone bushes/glow plug relay engine mounts) therefore do you think its reasonable if I offered to accept 75% of the total cost? (or should I accept 50%?)- I know this is subject to opinion but want to get a feel on what the average person would consider reasonable... ideally just want to get on with my life and not have this additional stress.....Even though half of me feels the trader shouldnt get away with what hes done.....but its been a stressful few months already and I've hated every moment of it....

 

If the trader refuses to pay (which I suspect he will) I will then send him a letter stating he has 14 days before I file for small claims action.....at this point can I charge interest on the amount claimed?-if so how do I work out how much to charge?

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It's certainly satisfactory for the dealer to fit used part, but to expect a 'real' garage to go hunting bits from breakers yards is over the top.

I think you will get all you ask for as you can argue that you have given him every oportunity to do the repairs and he failed to do so.

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  • 1 month later...

All,

 

Latest Update:

I've just submitted my claim via MCOL (yesterday) as I had not heard anything since my final letter however I just received a letter in the post today from the trader stating that the delay was a result in bad weather (prob true due to bad weather in UK recently).

 

He argued that even in the event he lost the case he would counter-sue me as my part exchanged car required some work that he had to do before selling, there was slight dent to the driver side rear which was obvious at point of sale and I pointed out to him....However he also claims it required new brakes, which I'm totally unaware of and he has receipts of the work he conducted? I've got no way of proving this other than taking his word for it.....Can he counter sue?- he goes on to say that I will end up with a CCJ which will affect me purchasing a property blah blah blah

 

He is then stating he would offer me half the price of the works if I sign a pre-prepared statement that I do not contact him if anything else is to go wrong with the car.....I am thinking of accepting on the basis the whole legal route is a headache and time consuming.....Do you think this is a reasonable offer and treat this as a lesson learnt (at least I get half of my costs back?).

 

Thanks all for your help in this so far....

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  • 4 years later...

Sorry its been a while since I last updated this thread but I've receieved messages which I haven't been able to respond to given my lack of posts to date :-S.

 

The outcome of my story was:- once the dealer received the summons he had his solicitor send me a letter and we reached an agreement where he paid for the bulk of the cost (tbh I should have held out for the whole amount but the whole drama was emotionally draining and I just wanted to move on).

 

Lessons Learnt- Don't let these traders shirk their responsibilities, they have legal obligations which they must fulfill. Don't let the whole court thing put you off too much (I would have had to travel to Northampton each time from london- which would have made it difficult). You must also be reasonable (ie if its a small cost not worth the whole drama/effort/cost). Also a bit wiser when it comes to repairs too :-).

 

Finally wanted to thank all that contributed to this thread and helped as tbh I would not have gone through with it if I didn't have the support/encouragement here and generally its made me more challenging (not just accepting it as 'tough luck') when things have turned faulty as a consumer (I often quote the SOGA!-the wife cringes everytime lol).

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  • 2 weeks later...

Reading this post with interest as I am in a similar situation. In my case, the trader will not even acknowledge I have any rights in law.

 

Thanks for posting your result back, and well done for sticking it out. It is only with people like you prepared to make the effort that traders will think twice before ripping people off

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Reading this post with interest as I am in a similar situation. In my case, the trader will not even acknowledge I have any rights in law.

 

Thanks for posting your result back, and well done for sticking it out. It is only with people like you prepared to make the effort that traders will think twice before ripping people off

 

 

If you are interested in getting help to put right your problem, say so and I will give you your own thread and you can tell us your story.

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