advice needed regarding Disciplinary action and suspension

[mariefab]

OK, did you find this out at the investigatory meeting, disciplinary meeting or appeal meeting?

[mariefab]

When did you find out about this?

investigatory meeting, disciplinary meeting or appeal meeting?

[mariefab]

When did you find out about this? At the investigatory, disciplinary or appeal meeting?

[andyford2000]

no my manager had told me about it no too long after the job

[mariefab]

Sorry about that ^^^ couldn't seem to post for a while there.

 

I've made a few changes, see what you think.

 

23 June 2010

I received the following text message from my manager;

Manager 2010-06-23 19:32:08

Hi Andy, I've been trying to call you, please can you be at AVC Warrington tomorrow morning at 0900, I'm not going to be on my phone for a while so can you please text me to confirm you have received this and will be attending, thanks

 

I immediately tried calling him back to enquire as to reason why I was required to be there and what it concerned. I got no answer and tried calling him periodically and texting for the next hour or so, with no reply being received in return.

 

 

24th June 2010

 

I arrived at our regional office at about 8.45 to be informed that I was there for an investigatory meeting relating to a breach of health and safety. I admitted that the allegation was right, that on 13th May 2010 I ascended a pitched roof without the correct equipment and procedures in place. My manager had been informed of this a within days of it happening.

 

At the end I was informed that this matter may involve Disciplinary action.

 

I left the meeting and returned home.

 

As I work from home, we are sent our work down for the following day electronically onto our PDA's. The work can arrive anytime from 4pm up until midnight, but usually by 7pm. When I received no work for 25th June I tried contacting my manager via text message and phone. He didn’t reply or answer my calls.

 

I then contacted another field manager via text message, asking where my work was and if they were running late in allocating jobs. He phoned me back with 10 minutes and informed me that "He was the bearer of bad news, I was suspended pending further investigation". I hadn’t been informed at the end of my meeting that I was to be suspended and no one had called me to inform this was the case until I questioned why I hadn’t any work for 25th.

 

I believe that they should have informed me by the end of that investigatory meeting of my suspension and this should have been in the minutes. They should also have then sent a letter stating the reasons for that suspension.

 

28th June 2010

 

I received a phone call from xxxxxxxxxx from my HR Department in Warrington at 10.45am enquiring to know why I hadn’t attended a meeting this morning at 10am. I explained that I have had no communication with them at all since the investigatory meeting last Thursday 24th June. I was informed that a letter was sent out to my home address on the 24th (Thursday). He then stated that I could go to Warrington today read the letter and if I was happy they would continue with the meeting.

 

I attended our office in Warrington around 1.30pm. I was handed a letter and other documentation relating to the allegation and also stating I was there for a disciplinary hearing.

 

During the meeting I had stated that I had been trained in this kind of work on the 21st and 22nd January 2010. On the 13th May, when the breach occurred, it was my very first heights installation. I was paired up with another more experienced engineer who had been doing this type of work for many months. I also mentioned that I wasn’t happy carrying out this kind of work and was pressurized into it by manager. I was only given my health and safety equipment 10 minutes prior to the job. I said that the breach was a one off mistake and that it hadn’t happened again since.

 

The more experienced engineer who was working with me on this day has at no time been disciplined regarding this and is still working for the company.

 

Following the disciplinary hearing I was informed that I was being dismissed for gross misconduct.

 

At no time was I informed that I could have adjourned the meeting for another time enabling myself to prepare and gather my own evidence in relationship to the allegation.

 

30th June 2010

 

Dismissal letter received stating reasons for dismissal.

 

1st July 2010

 

I received the letter inviting me to attend a disciplinary hearing on the 28th June 2010 at 10am. The letter was dated the 24th June 2010 and was clearly sent out on the 29th June 2010 as clearly marked by the franked postmark, 24 hours after I had been dismissed. The documentation supplied with this letter was missing various documents that were presented to me just prior to the hearing. This being the case, I certainly wouldn’t have been prepared correctly for the hearing should the letter of arrived before the hearing.

 

 

4th July 2010

 

Formal Notice to Appeal Letter sent to xxxxxx.

 

27th July 2010

 

Appeal was heard.

 

I read out the following statement and left them with a copy;

 

The reason I presented and demonstrated a clear understanding of the training undertaken in relationship to carrying out my work and understanding the techniques and practices required to undertake this nature of work is two fold. First of all I have re-read the training material supplied when I attended the SIT training course in Warrington on 21st and 22nd January 2010. Secondly I attended a Blue Sky Course at Knaresborough on the 15th June 2010, which showed us and demonstrated the techniques required to carry out pitched roof work.

 

I have to state that I didn’t deliberately disregard company policy and procedures. If I had known prior to the incident occurring on the 13th May 2010 that my actions would result in myself being dismissed for gross misconduct then I certainly wouldn’t have proceeded with the job.

 

Prior to my disciplinary hearing on the 28th June 2010, I was presented with a bundle of information relevant to this case. In said bundle was a document "Revisions to the disciplinary Procedures Regarding Health and Safety Related Disciplinaries September 2009."

 

Stating that;

 

Where an employee is found to have carried out work on a roof top without the appropriate equipment and/or processes being followed, the like outcome would be a dismissal.

 

I categorically deny ever seeing or being issued with the document in question. Further more if I had ever received this document / update, surely there must be a signed receipt to confirm that I have received it and understood it and the consequences of failing to following this HEALTH AND SAFETY RELATED document. I have also looked through the AVC ENGINEER HEALTH & SAFETY INFORMATION PACK and again this document is not there and certainly isn’t covered in the disciplinary procedures section.

 

If I was deemed to be a risk to myself and others, then the company has a duty of care to make sure that I am not putting myself and others at risk. Then why was I allowed to continue working without being suspended. I was still working on heights routes, on the 15th May, 14th & 19th July

 

As stated in original meeting this was indeed my first heights installation since completing my training some four months earlier. I have also stated before that I was unhappy to carry out this type of work and expressed my concerns to Paul Rowlands at the time. I was informed that all engineers now had to do this and basically to get on with it.

 

No decision was made as they stated that they would need to further investigate issues raised at the hearing.

 

12th August 2010

 

I received a letter stating the following.

 

Informing me that a decision still hadn’t been made as investigations are still on going, due mainly to the absence, by annual leave, of the main witnesses in response to your points raised and the information needed to make an informed opinion.

 

as soon as everyone is back in business, I do not foresee any further delay to providing an outcome. I anticipate this outcome to be no later than two weeks from date of this letter.

 

signed on behalf of regional manager.

 

26th September

 

As of today, I haven’t received any outcome from the appeal hearing. Furthermore I haven’t been sent the typed up minutes for the appeal hearing.

 

***************

[andyford2000]

many thanks, i have edited you changes i think and added some more. in relationship to the appeal letter not being sent.

in your opinion, would you say i am doing the right thing here.

23 June 2010

I received the following text message from my manager;

Manager 2010-06-23 19:32:08

Hi Andy, I've been trying to call you, please can you be at xxx Warrington tomorrow morning at 0900, I'm not going to be on my phone for a while so can you please text me to confirm you have received this and will be attending, thanks

I immediately tried calling him back to enquire as to reason why I was required to be there and what it concerned. I got no answer and tried calling him periodically and texting for the next hour or so, with no reply being received in return.

24th June 2010

I arrived at our regional office at about 8.45 this morning to be informed that I was there for an investigatory meeting in relationship to breach of health and safety. I admitted that the allegation was right, that I ascended a pitched roof without the correct equipment and procedures in place. My manager had been informed of this within days of it happening.

At the end I was informed that this matter may involve Disciplinary action.

 

I left the meeting and return home.

 

As I work from home, we are sent our work down for the following electronically onto out PDA's. The work can arrived anytime from 4pm up until midnight, but usually by 7pm. I received no work for the 25th Jun and tried contacting my manager via text message and phone; again he didn’t reply or answer my calls.

 

I then proceeded to contact another field manager via text message, asking where my work was and if they were running late in allocating jobs. He phoned me back with 10 minutes and informed me that "He was the bearer of bad news, I was suspended pending further investigation", I hadn’t been informed at the end of my meeting that I was to be suspended and no one had called me to inform this was the case until, I questioned why I hadn’t any work for the 25th June.

I believe that they should have informed me, by the end of that investigatory meeting of my suspension and this should have been in the minutes. They should also have then sent a letter stating the reasons for that suspension.

28th June 2010

I received a phone call from xxxxxxxfrom my HR Department in Warrington at 10.45am enquiring to know why I hadn’t attended a meeting this morning at 10am. I explained that I have had no communication with them at all since the investigatory meeting last Thursday 24th June. I was informed that a letter was sent out to my home address on the 24th (Thursday), which I have never received. He then stated that I could go to Warrington today read the letter and if I was happy they would continue with the meeting.

I attend our office in Warrington around 1.30pm. I was handed a letter and other documentation in relationship to the allegation and also stating I was there for a disciplinary hearing.

During the meeting I had stated that I had been trained in this kind of work on the 21st and 22nd January 2010. On the 13th May, some 4months later I was given my very first heights installation being paired up with another more experienced engineer who had been doing this type of work for many months. I also mentioned that I wasn’t happy carrying out this kind of work and was pressurized into it by manager I was only given my health and safety equipment 10minutes prior to the job. I said that it was a one off mistake and that it hadn’t happened again since.

The more experienced engineer who was working with me on this day has at no time been disciplined regarding this and is still working for the company.

Following the disciplinary hearing I was informed that I was being dismissed for gross misconduct.

At no time was I informed that I could have adjourned the meeting for another time enabling myself to prepare and gather my own evidence in relationship to the allegation.

30th June 2010

Dismissal letter received stating reasons for dismissal.

1st July 2010

I received the letter inviting me to attend a disciplinary hearing on the 28th June 2010 at 10am. The letter was dated the 24th June 2010 and was clearly sent out on the 29th June 2010 as clearly marked by the franked postmark, 24hours after I had been dismissed. The documentation supplied with this letter was missing various documents that were presented to me just prior to the hearing. This being the case, I certainly wouldn’t have been prepared correctly for the hearing should the letter of arrived before the hearing.

4th July 2010

Formal Notice to Appeal Letter sent to Ian Lee’s.

22nd July 2010

I received a email in reference to me not attending a appeal hearing scheduled on Tuesday 20 July 2010 at 10.30am. It would appear that once again this letter was never sent to me. I replied to this email stating that the reason why I never attend this hearing was infact because I had no knowledge of this appeal hearing was still waiting for communication from the company.

27th July 2010

Appeal was heard.

I read out the following statement and left them with a copy;

The reason I presented and demonstrated a clear understanding of the training undertaken in relationship to carrying out my work and understanding the techniques and practices required to undertake this nature of work is two fold. First of all I have re-read the training material supplied when I attended the SIT training course in Warrington on 21st and 22nd January 2010. Secondly I attended a Blue Sky Course at Knaresborough on the 15th June 2010, which showed us and demonstrated the techniques required to carry out pitched roof work.

I have to state that I didn’t deliberately disregard company policy and procedures. If I had known prior to the incident occurring on the 13th May 2010 that my actions would result in myself being dismissed for gross misconduct then I certainly wouldn’t have proceeded with the job.

Prior to my disciplinary hearing on the 28th June 2010, I was presented with a bundle of information relevant to this case. In said bundle was a document “Revisions to the disciplinary Procedures Regarding Health and Safety Related Disciplinaries September 2009.”

Stating that;

Where an employee is found to have carried out work on a roof top without the appropriate equipment and/or processes being followed, the like outcome would be a dismissal.

I categorically deny ever seeing or being issued with the document in question. Further more if I had ever received this document / update, surely there must be a signed receipt to confirm that I have received it and understood it and the consequences of failing to following this HEALTH AND SAFETY RELATED document. I have also looked through the AVC ENGINEER HEALTH & SAFETY INFORMATION PACK and again this document is not there and certainly isn’t covered in the disciplinary procedures section.

If I was deemed to be a risk to myself and others, then the company has a duty of care to make sure that I am not putting myself and others at risk. Then why was I allowed to continue working without being suspended. I was still working on heights routes, on the 15th May, 14th & 19th July

As stated in original meeting this was indeed my first heights installation since completing my training some four months earlier. I have also stated before that I was unhappy to carry out this type of work and expressed my concerns to Paul Rowlands at the time. I was informed that all engineers now had to do this and basically to get on with it.

No decision was made as they stated that they would need to further investigate issues raised at the hearing.

12th August 2010

I received a letter stating the following.

Informing me that a decision still hadn’t been made as investigations are still on going, due mainly to the absence, by annual leave, of the main witnesses in response to your points raised and the information needed to make an informed opinion.

 

as soon as everyone is back in business, I do not foresee any further delay to providing an outcome. I anticipate this outcome to be no later than two weeks from date of this letter.

 

signed on behalf of regional manager.

26th September

As of today, I haven’t received any outcome from the appeal hearing. Furthermore I haven’t been sent the typed up minutes for the appeal hearing. I am under the impression that the company are hoping that I may of moved on from this.

Additional information.

I feel that the way the company was dealt with this matter to be extremely unfair. It would appear that their only concern was how to terminate my employment. It would also seem that they haven’t followed procedures set out by the ACAS code of conduct. There have been similar occurrences of breaches of health and safety that have gone un punished by the field managers. At my disciplinary hearing I was shown a document that stated that the likely outcome for working on a pitched roof without the appropriate equipment would result in dismissal. If I had been aware of this document and in fact had understood the content then I certainly wouldn’t of carried out the job in question. I feel that the company certainly hasn’t had a duty of care to myself, as they continued to let me work on these type of jobs. We as engineer as pushed as far as they can for productivity, we constantly received text messages with

[mariefab]

I think it might be worth fitting this in somewhere.

There have been similar occurrences of breaches of health and safety that have gone un punished by the field managers.

Also, I'd cut the part under 28th June saying, 'if I was happy they would'

[andyford2000]

thanks this now reads, cannot work out where to put the other section though

 

28th June 2010

I received a phone call from Mathew Elliston from my HR Department in Warrington at 10.45am enquiring to know why I hadn’t attended a meeting this morning at 10am. I explained that I have had no communication with them at all since the investigatory meeting last Thursday 24th June. I was informed that a letter was sent out to my home address on the 24th (Thursday), which I have never received. He then stated that I could go to Warrington today read the letter.

[mariefab]

The more experienced engineer who was working with me on this day has at no time been disciplined regarding this and is still working for the company.

How about putting it here?

 

Following the disciplinary hearing I was informed that I was being dismissed for gross misconduct.

[andyford2000]

done, is that it, anything i should add

[andyford2000]

what would be a good remedy, six months pay and a clean record, does that sound ok

[mariefab]

If you're talking about section 6.1, I'd just leave it blank.

[andyford2000]

thats it, all done and submitted.

 

special thanks to Mariefab for you kind help, and understanding and everyone else along the way