Facing Gross Misconduct - Worried to Death

[ms_smith]

Hi,

 

I'm in need of some serious help. I am facing a gross misconduct hearing, the allegation is that I violated the companies internet policy by loking at indecent material. I have been suspended whilst it is investigated. All I know at this point is that I was using the internet to sort a problem with my Iphone, absolutely everyone uses the internet for personal use and no-one says anything. I remember clicking a link and a dodgy popup came up, I say dodgy, it was a girl in a bra, above waste photo about the size of a postage stamp. I thought nothing of it and shut it down. Next thing I know, an investigation is under way into gross misconduct. Penalty for being guilty is dismissle. I'm so nervous I have forgotten how to spell

 

I have a mortgage and kids and this will ruin us.

 

What am I best doing, get a Barrister, head in the sand? I have 6 years flawless service. Can this really be deemed gross misconduct for 1 second of in-attention?

 

Hello!

Human Rights Activist in here...

 

From what you write and what I understand is that you were visiting a website with Iphones. Then you clicked on a link on that website and a pop-up came in. Is that right?

 

If so, it means the pop-up was designed to be some sort of a commercial/advert, as it happens on Internet. In which case, I believe it is not your problem that you were fooled into clicking on that (dodgy) link as you had the right to assume that official websites (such as the one with Iphones, for example) have got their own policies introduced as to what time what kinds of pop-up commercials or adverts are being displayed. For the same reason, I believe, a teenager would probably see the same pop-up as well during, let's say, his break at school, in a library or even at home.

I repeat, being fooled by some others' misconduct in respect of them breaking their duty to preserve authority or you expecting them (them meaning: this website, officially not classified as indecent, I assume) to keep appropriate level of that authority at all times, is not your problem or shouldn't be regarded as your own gross misconduct.

Unless there is something else you didn't tell us about.

 

Regards

Edited May 26, 2010 by ms_smith

[honeybee13]

If you were awake, fearful of nodding off and damp with sweat, chances are you were thinking about me. Hugs are greatfully received, answers too.

 

Perhaps I can add to the forum with my expertise, might make me feel happier.

 

I'm sure you will Max, you're already answering threads on here, I've seen. And as you know, moral support is sometimes nearly as helpful as information.

 

HB x

 

PS Here again at some ungodly hour. What have I done to deserve this?

[geoff1248]

Max

What type of business are your employers involved in and are they independent or part of a larger group. Also have they done any advertising in the past and what has been the content of any adverts? Can you see where I'm coming from here?

Don't get too upset at the actions of the HR dept. they are just doing their job. A complaint has been made and they are investigating; it's what they are paid to do so don't assume an ulterior motive.

Note also that web sites are not required to put pop-up blockers on their sites. Indeed many sites generate income from these pop-ups. Similarly businesses are not required to protect the content that their employees view (although they would be foolish not to).

Is it possible for you to replicate what you did and see if you still get the same image and if it is the home page of an unsuitable site? Obviously don't do this on your work PC. The reason for asking this is that although your clicking on the pop up showed the image that it did, doing the same a second time from a different PC may well bring up a totally different image. I won't go into the reason for this at this stage.

[ms_smith]

PS Here again at some ungodly hour. What have I done to deserve this?

 

[Max1234W]

Right,

 

First, thanks for all your support.

 

I dare not say what I do as I'm rather specialist within a specialism.

 

I will say my employer is a large publically traded company who have farmed me out to a company that is specially setup to perform a task, multiple other companies support this special company. Each company has it's own policies etc and we have employees from all companies from all over.

 

To make it more complicated, I work for company A (for sake of argument) but I use company B's laptop at all times and a combination of Company A & B's networks and business system's. That might sound like goobledy gook, but makes sense in my head. In this incedence I was using Company A's network.

 

I retraced my steps on my home laptop. The site I visited is a third party provider of apps. I believe I may of misreported earlier (for which I give my humblest of apologies, but I will re-state the facts), but not by much.

 

I was looking for how to change a setting on my phone, I'm not smart at these things, this site did come up with the answer, however no pop-ups, I can only deduce I selected a link (as I managed to find one that matches) which contained the word pleasure in it (possibly a daft thing to do not thinking, but there were no warnings of any images at all). When you select this link a mobile phone picture placed on a phone graphic comes up, along with a description about some software, of a girl in a frilli bikini. It looks like the right colour, I can't be sure. It is debateable as to wether it is a picture or a high quality cartoon graphic, but either way it's 2 inch by 2 inch in very low resolution. I still recall shutting down the browser instantly, even if my laptop lags a bit. The rest you know.

[honeybee13]

Hi Max. I'm about to ask the IT caggers to have a look at your thread in case they can comment, rather than you posting there and having the threads knitted together like happened earlier on another Employment thread.

 

I thought they were great and hopefully the other employer won't come out well.

 

HB x

[geoff1248]

"I dare not say what I do as I'm rather specialist within a specialism."

 

I didn't ask what you did, I asked what your employers business was. This could be very relevant.

[Max1234W]

We help others design things, big things.

[ms_smith]

Right,

 

I retraced my steps on my home laptop. The site I visited is a third party provider of apps. I believe I may of misreported earlier (for which I give my humblest of apologies, but I will re-state the facts), but not by much.

 

I was looking for how to change a setting on my phone, I'm not smart at these things, this site did come up with the answer, however no pop-ups, I can only deduce I selected a link (as I managed to find one that matches) which contained the word pleasure in it (possibly a daft thing to do not thinking, but there were no warnings of any images at all). When you select this link a mobile phone picture placed on a phone graphic comes up, along with a description about some software, of a girl in a frilli bikini. It looks like the right colour, I can't be sure. It is debateable as to wether it is a picture or a high quality cartoon graphic, but either way it's 2 inch by 2 inch in very low resolution. I still recall shutting down the browser instantly, even if my laptop lags a bit. The rest you know.

 

To me it all sounds like a dodgy commercial/advert/description to a software. They do it these days to attract customers' attention - I call is: sex by commercials or advertising.

I think you shouldn't worry that much.

Maybe if you posted us, privately, a link to that step-by-step actions, we would get, lol, a bigger picture .

[honeybee13]

Hi ms smith and Max. I posted a link to this thread to the IT forum, because they were so great today with Freaking Out. If they can add anything, I'm sure they'll post.

 

HB x

[ms_smith]

Hi ms smith and Max. I posted a link to this thread to the IT forum, because they were so great today with Freaking Out. If they can add anything, I'm sure they'll post.

 

HB x

 

Yep! Every little helps...

[SOD'EM]

There is a high possibility that there is a virus in the system. If the security is lapsed or has been compromised (ie. Someone has given a website acees to the system). If this is the case, it would be Adware (which can pop up allsorts of things while you are using your computer). These can be very annoying and some are more severe than others.

 

Are all of the computers in your company attatched to one server, or do they all have their own. In most companies, there will be one main server. If so, then that main server may have been infected by anyones computer in the company (not necessarily yours). But it would affect all of the other computers.

 

This is just a thought as you need to look at every possibility. There are many virus removal programs all over the internet. But for corporate use, you would usually have to pay for it.

 

PS. With an adware/Malware virus, you can get allsorts of things popping up without your consent on any particular website you may be browsing.

[Tezcatlipoca]

I run the corporate network of a national company, so can try to advise on how things might stand from the IT perspective (I can't be sure since I don't know how your network is setup or administered).

 

Firstly, whilst what SOD'EM says about viruses and adware is quite correct, I don't think that's necessarily the situation here, or at least I hope it's not since it would indicate a rather alarming lack of security on the part of your IT department!

 

It sounds like you attempted to visit - in all innocence - an iPhone website that unbeknown to you contained (semi)pornographic ads/pop-ups/links. To be perfectly honest, this is extremely common for a lot of websites. Some have hidden scripts and malware imbedded in them to hijack the unsuspecting visitor, but the vast majority have their hosting costs part-funded by placing adverts over the site, and, where online revenue is concerned, sex sells.

 

As to where that leaves you, it's something of a grey area. I'd suggest that the burden of proof is on your company - specifically the IT department - to show that you knowingly (note the adjective there) visited a site that contained material banned by law and/or your employment contract, as this would constitute an offence.

 

If you actually clicked a link for the material in question, as you intimated in this post, you might be on trickier ground than if you'd just suffered a popup on an otherwise innocent page. Conversely, I'd argue the fact you closed the browser (which should also be evident to any tracking systems) almost immediately is an indication that you did not intend to access said material, but I stress that all of this is just the conclusion I'd draw as your IT administrator; it might not be how your company sees it.

 

In many ways, it depends on exactly how the IT department tracked your net usage and flagged this in the first place, as there are many, many ways to implement tracking.

If they just have a long list of all access websites, you might reasonably argue that you did not expect the page you were visiting to contain any questionable material and that, upon finding it did, you immediately closed the browser. Whether or not the company understands this, or whether or not they are required to, I can't say.

 

You say you tried to replicate the issue on your home laptop, so if you were to give us the original iPhone link you tried to visit (by PM if you'd rather not broadcast it), we can take a look and see if we can help further.

 

Sorry I can't be of more constructive help, but I simply don't have enough information to form a definite opinion.

[Mossycat]

I run the corporate network of a national company, so can try to advise on how things might stand from the IT perspective (I can't be sure since I don't know how your network is setup or administered).

 

 

Tezcatlipoca, is it possible that the DNS server was poisoned? ie the OP clicked on a link that was innocent but the DNS was repointed to the dodgy site?

 

Just a thought (and PC's are not my arena)

 

Mossy

[geoff1248]

At this stage I don't think this is an IT problem as Max admitted that he clicked on the pop up link which then took him to the dodgy site. He wasn't magically redirected without him clicking on anything; I don't think we are talking about a virus et al. Max is solely to blame for the redirection, sorry Max. The real query is weather or not a picture of a girl in a bikini is "indecent material".

Given that Max has said that the image was no more that 2"x2" and that he clicked off the site very quickly, whoever saw the image would either have to have exceptionally good eye sight or have been stood very close to Max. As neither of these two are probable it leads me to believe that the IT system has monitored the sites/content Max visited and has flagged up something it is not happy with. As Max has suggested it could be the word "pleasure" or something else maybe hidden within the image itself. We will have to wait until Max receives a formal letter from HR stating exactly what the accusation is about.

[Tezcatlipoca]

Tezcatlipoca, is it possible that the DNS server was poisoned?

 

It's possible, sure; the question is really whether it's probable, and not knowing anything about that company's network, I really can't offer an opinion.

 

That said, I'd be extremely surprised if this were the case. DNS hijacking, even in the most basic of properly-run networks, is extremely unlikely, if for no other reason than the users are not (or should not be) given administrative level accounts.

 

At this stage I don't think this is an IT problem as Max admitted that he clicked on the pop up link which then took him to the dodgy site. He wasn't magically redirected without him clicking on anything; I don't think we are talking about a virus et al.

 

Sorry Max, but I have to say I entirely agree with geoff1248 here. If, as you say, you clicked the link then it's your action that brought up material forbidden by your company policy.

 

As I said before, the only realistic defence I can see is that you closed your browser immediately upon realising your error, but I suspect whether or not that is accepted and the matter dropped as a result is the decision of the company.

[Mossycat]

I read recently that poisoned DNS servers were hijacking legitimate links and redirectring traffic to various porn related sites, hence why I asked if this could be the culprit in the OP's case.

 

This malware apparently caught out a lot of innocent people who thought they were clicking on a link to one site and finding themselves on quite another one altogether.

 

Mossy

[Max1234W]

Thanks all for the info and honest opinion, I think a few have not quite read what I have written carefully enough, that said I'm not excatly showing all.

 

As for IT setup, we use a combination of systems from different companies in different locations. Read my past entries for the exact details. Employer/network/laptop company A B C etc.

 

I also doubt it was a virus, I'm hardly a techie, but I chose to look at the site, the link was to another page within the same website. The link did not suggest anything untoward at all. Just came up with the afformentioned picture/graphic, then immediate shutdown.

 

My question to all is how on earth did it get picked up? I have a private office with no windows? People look on facebook/fastbike etc and nothing ever happens. People have the sun newspaper (page 3) in the office nothing gets said.

 

I still have no idea what the issue is, it's been a week now and nothing has happened. It suggests to me it is far more serious which is odd as this is the only indescretion I can think of. I work largely alone not inside a team, I get along with everyone. My car insurance record ain't great with the company, but almost everyone is worse, plus nothing has ever been my fault/cost much. People have handed cars back with barely a straight panel.

 

I think this needs to be approached from another perspective other than viruses,

 

1, I was not there, machine left alone.

2, People have calenders with far worse on (Photo's taken).

3, Boss reads the Sun (Photo's taken).

4, IT record may show that I was there for a split second.

5, Picture is a tiny graphic, not a photo, material can easily be found in a high street store.

6 Website shows intention of not looking for material.

7 People bring in mags which show worse an no action is taken.

 

What do you guys think, my brain is fried and I'm getting so upset.

[Max1234W]

I'm also going on holiday shortly, what happens if I get summoned in the mean time?

[geoff1248]

The delay could well be because they are having difficulty proving the complaint. Don't forget that they do have a duty to fully investigate the complaint. No news could well be good news. You could always contact them and ask what the current situation is. Don't be tempted to debate it with them at this time.

If your holidays were booked prior to your suspension and your employers knew you had booked time off then if they write to you while you are away then that is their problem.

Also if it takes them say, 2 weeks to issue you a letter detailing the complaint then it is reasonable for you to ask for a similar amount of time to prepare your defence.

Besides no-one in their right mind would consider a graphic of a girl in a bikini as unsuitable content.

It may be useful if you print out the actual web page complete with the graphic.

I think that you will find that us CAGGERS work much better once we know what we are dealing with and have a deadline to work to.

[Max1234W]

I'm grateful to you all. Once this is over, good or bad, I'm here for life.

 

I have indeed taken a print out (at home) of the pages in question and it's gone in a file with my detailed notes etc. I know people haven't seen this pic, but why could anyone think this is indecent material and why on earth hasn't someone plucked up the courage to say, investigation complete, not indecent material, back to work? It's truly bizarre, it's making me ill now.

 

Yes my holiday was signed off before I left, some time ago, is it worth reminding them, we are supposed to use this new fangled system, but my boss just doesn't know how to use a computer, only peron I know to put figures in excel, print it off and then use a calculator, so we are all on paper still.

[Max1234W]

Nothing has been received/said again today, this is getting silly, obviousy someone senior is off who can make decisions.

[JonCris]

Sorry just come aboard but are you saying the material was a graphic of a girl in a bikini & if so is your firm run on Islamic grounds hence the severity of the 'offense'

[ms_smith]

Take care, Max. Try to relax over the BH weekend. I know it may be difficult but remember: we believe you didn't do anything wrong and we are definitely on your side.

[ms_smith]

Sorry just come aboard but are you saying the material was a graphic of a girl in a bikini & if so is your firm run on Islamic grounds hence the severity of the 'offense'

 

 

Ha ha ha! Love this comment to bits!

 

(have nothing against Islam though! - if it doesn't disturb me, that is)

Edited May 29, 2010 by ms_smith