Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB ***WON UNCONDITIONALLY WITH CONTRACTUAL INTEREST***

[Mindzai]

Thanks crash, good luck.

[ussff]

Interesting Birmingham????

 

We sent our Prelim letter to our branch (21 August), the response came 10 days later from 125 Colmore Row Birmingham, signed Janet Burns - Assistant Manager.

 

I am just writing to let you know that we've received your comlaint - and to say how sorry I am to learn that you're unhappy with us

 

You have my assurance that we will investigate the concerns you have raised with us - this may take a little time but I would expect our enquiries to be complete within the coming 2 weeks. We will then be able to respond in full to your complaint and at that stage, I hope, resolve matters between us.

 

In case you haven't received a copy of our leaflet called 'How to voice your concerns' I've enclosed one with my letter. This tells you all you need to know about resolving your complaint with us.

 

...wonder if the 2 weeks has anything to do with Mindzai & Lucid's case LOL

[Mindzai]

In responce to their latest threats, I've drafted the following which will be posted on Monday:

 

Collections Centre

Brighton

BN1 4BE

 

4th September, 2006

 

CC: Customer Service Recovery Centre

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBERS: xxxxxx & xxxxxx

 

Firstly, I would like to briefly address your recent breach of the Banking Code section 14.3, which clearly states that “within five working days of receiving your complaint, we will send you a written acknowledgement”. As I have sent you a letter of complaint by recorded delivery regarding your recent actions which you received on 22nd August, and you have failed to acknowledge the complaint within this time, I will be contacting the BCSB and the FSA to inform them of your breach.

 

To address the two threatening letters dated 30th August 2006, I have made it very clear to you in numerous letters and telephone conversations, that the entire sum of my overdraft, both authorised and unauthorised is currently in dispute, and as such I will not be making any payments to you until such time as this dispute is resolved in full. If you continue to ignore my attempts to enter into a sincere dialogue concerning this debt and merely continue with either standard letters or threats and scare-tactics, I am quite willing and prepared to begin a Court case against you.

 

I also note in your letter regarding my sole account that you have had no reply to your previous letter. Not only have I replied to the letter you mention in writing, I have also spoken to you on the telephone about it on two separate occasions. Whilst I am not in the slightest bit surprised by your lack of organisation and communication as well as the extremely poor level of customer service you provide, I would like you to know that I am nevertheless extremely dissatisfied with the way you are dealing with this issue.

 

I would also like to remind you that I instructed you not to contact me via the telephone but to put anything you wish to say to me in writing. Despite this request, you have attempted to contact me twice in the last week via the telephone. Given your recent breach of the banking code and your flagrant disregard for both the FSA’s position on retaliatory action and the OFT’s position regarding unlawful charges, I am sure you can understand why I would like to have all of your correspondence in print. I am quite prepared to accept that this is due to inept interdepartmental communication and as such am willing to overlook it on this occasion as a gesture of goodwill, but rest assured if you continue to try to contact me by telephone I will be forced to take further action.

 

You will note from my previous correspondence that you have until 7th September 2006 to refund the money which you have unlawfully debited from my account, along with all interest I have incurred due to these charges as well as interest at a rate of 29.85% EAR on the entire sum owed. Should you decide not to repay the money by this date, I will proceed to file a claim for the full amount. As I am calculating interest daily it would be in your best interest to attempt to resolve this matter promptly and before court action.

 

I would like to make it absolutely clear that I consider your decision to demand repayment of my overdraft both retaliatory and boorish, and I assure you that if your intention is to make me cease the legal action I am undertaking against you, you will be sorely disappointed with my reaction. Furthermore, if, as I suspect to be the case, you intend to leave me in a financial position whereby I am unable to proceed with legal action against you, you will again be disappointed with the success of this tactic, due in no small part to the fact that you are no longer acting as my fiduciary. I will be forwarding copies of your letters along with a further complaint to the FSA and my MP. If you persist in your threatening and retaliatory actions, I will not hesitate to seek an injunction to prevent you from taking further action until the dispute over the money you owe me is resolved.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Mindzai

[Balbadier]

WOW powerful stuff. I very much hope it has the desired effect.

I do think they really rely on us getting busy with other things, and thus dropping the whole thing. They are sorely mistaken in your case ;-).

This whole MoneySaving thing is quite exciting though. I have just renegotiated a great package on my mobile, and for the first time ever have organised a credit card bank transfer BEFORE my current 0% expires. Thanks to Martin Lewis's website.

Good luck Mindzai and Lucid.

[Mindzai]

Hi Balbadier. As you may have guessed I consider Lloyds tactics to be nothing short of bullying and intimidation and I hate bullies! You have to stand your ground with them or they just keep trying to take advantage of their position.

[lucid]

Hi. Once again a letter has arrived for Minzai from the Collections Centre - this time regarding his sole account.

 

Collections Centre

Brighton BN1 4BE

 

Date: 30th August 2006

 

Dear Mr Mindzai,

 

 

COLLECTION ALERT

IMMEDIATE PAYMENT OR CONTACT REQUIRED

 

 

Cheque Account No : xxxxxxxxx

Cheque Account Balance : £-88.18

Unauthorised Overdrawn Amount : £88.18

 

We have had no reply from you to our last letter, so I am writing to remind you that we expect a payment of £88.18 immediately.

 

Please contact us today on 0870 – 2424760 to talk over any difficulties you might have in paying this amount.

 

If we do not receive the payment or hear from you, we will have no alternative but to take further steps to recover the money.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Manager

Collections Centre

This is getting ridiculous now. Not only has he replied to their first letter, (although he sent it to Customer Recovery so they may not know this at Collections as there seems to be a major lack in contact between departments), but he has spoken to them on the phone twice and informed them that this dispute is going to court. They know full well that the arrears are purely due to their charges and this is what the dispute is about. As you can see from a couple of posts above Mindzai has already drafted a letter to send to them following their letter and phonecall he received on Friday. We'll stick the Data Protection Notice in with that and hopefully this is going to put them on hold.

 

Lucid

[Mindzai]

I am quite prepared to accept that this is due to inept interdepartmental communication...

 

Seems my assumption was correct I'll be ammending my above letter to deal with this one too before I send it.

[lucid]

Hi everyone.

 

Well we filed all three of our claims this afternoon at the local County Court - my best advice to anyone who's filing soon is to prepare it in plenty of time as I discovered it took much longer than I anticipated. So here are our particulars which is the same format for each account. You'll see that we have used the template from the forum but we've used our own interest wording in 5d to reflect our claims as we are claiming contractual interest [compounded] and have added alternative interest rates.

 

 

1. The Claimants have a joint account xxxxxxxx ("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened on or around [DATE].

 

2. During the period in which the Account has been operating the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimants and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimants understand that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimants.

 

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.

 

4. The Claimants contend that:

 

a) The charges debited to the Account, as outlined in the attached schedule, are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimants; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit. In the event that the charges are not a penalty, they are unreasonable under The Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 section 15. The Defendant has declined to justify the charges.

 

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999) paragraph 8 and schedule 2(1)(e), The Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1977 section 4 and the common law.

 

5. Accordingly the Claimants claim:

 

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £1162 and interest charged thereon in the sum of £138.23;

 

b) Court costs;

 

c) the additional costs incurred by the Claimants in the writing and sending of letters to the Defendant pursuant to this claim in the sum of £18, as set out in the attached list of costs.

 

d) the Claimants claim contractual interest at a rate of 29.85% per annum, from the date of each transaction to 7th September 2006, which is £285.11, as set out in the attached list of charges. The Claimants further claim interest, on the resulting total of £1585.34, at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment, at a daily rate of £1.30 per day.

 

The account’s Terms and Conditions specify the interest payable on unauthorised drawings from the account. The Claimants hold that this applies to unauthorised drawings by the Defendant as well as to unauthorised drawings by the Claimants. Should the court deem this incorrect, the Claimants claim the rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on the Defendant’s unauthorised overdraft interest rate that would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account.

 

Should the court find that this interest rate is not applicable, then in the alternative the Claimants claim contractual interest at a rate of 18.2%, from the date of each transaction to 7th September 2006, which is £170.43, as set out in the attached list of charges. The Claimants further claims interest, on the resulting total of £1470.67, at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment, at a daily rate of £0.73 per day.

 

The account’s Terms and Conditions specify the interest payable on authorised drawings from the account. The Claimants hold that this applies to authorised drawings by the Defendant as well as to authorised drawings by the Claimants. Should the court deem this incorrect, the Claimants claim the rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on the Defendant’s authorised overdraft interest rate that would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account.

 

Should the court find that this interest rate is not applicable, then in the alternative the Claimants claim interest under Section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum calculated from 3rd November 2003 to 7th September 2006, which is £72.82 and continuing until payment or the date of judgement at a daily rate of £0.28.

 

We believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true.

You'll notice from 5c that we have also added letter costs into our claim - don't know what they'll think of that but we haven't really asked for much per letter. I listed each letter we have had to send them regarding each claim and claimed the same amount for each. The brief note at the top of the list explains:

 

The letters listed have been written by the Claimants to the Defendant pursuant to this claim and have each been sent via Royal Mail First Class Recorded Delivery. Each letter has been accounted for and will incur a charge of £3 to reflect the cost of postage and a modest fee towards the time the Claimants have put into writing each letter.

It might seem, to some, that it's not worth it as we haven't written them loads of letters but I think that it's absolutely reasonable for us to claim back postage costs and a small cost towards writing the letter - as well as visiting the local PO and queing up to send it etc.

 

So today the total claims we filed (just charges & contractual interest [compounded as it is in the contract using Mindzai's spreadhseet] at 29.85%) are:

 

Mindzai - £477.76 (Daily rate of interest £0.39)

Lucid - £592.58 (Daily rate of interest £0.48 )

Joint - £1585.34 (Daily rate of interest £1.30)

 

On top of those amounts will be the court costs and our letter costs. Now we just have to wait for them to acknowledge the claim - probably won't happen until right at the end of the two week deadline!

 

Lucid

[tim2718281]

WOW powerful stuff.

 

I particularly liked the part about "gesture of goodwill" ...

 

Tim

[reload]

Good stuff guys, we're rooting for ya

[lucid]

Thanks reload. Good luck with your current claims too.

 

Lucid

[GaryH]

Very absorbing thread! I'll watch this one with great interest - especially since I've just included compounded contractual interest my HSBC claim. Oh, and thanks for the spreadsheet!

 

Good luck!

[Mindzai]

Thanks for the encouragement - reload your thread was one of the big motivators for us actually starting this so thanks for posting up your experiences.

 

It's just a waiting game now I expect, though we still need to see what's happening regarding our OD that they are demanding back (due today!). Hope they've not got plans for the money though cos they'll be disapointed if so...

[lucid]

Hi everyone,

 

I just thought I'd give an update on the letters I've received from Lloyds lately. Firstly I'm sure you're all familiar with the format but after £66 charges and interest were debited from my sole account on 1st September I received their usual notification letter. What I find amusing is that they never charge you when you go overdrawn because of their own charges.

 

We wanted to let you know that we’ve made all of the payments that you arranged to come out of your account this morning. Unfortunately, because there was not enough money in your account to cover them, this means your account s now over your overdraft limit.

 

We have not charged you for going overdrawn this time, but we will have to if your overdraft increases.

I like the way they say I arranged for the charges to come out - like I had a choice! What I find even more amusing is this sentence that appears in their usual 'you are going to be charged letter':

 

We will have charged you for being overdrawn unless you had brought your account back into credit on the day we wrote this letter.

I think it's really kind of them, after spending £30 on the whole process of sending out this letter, to waive the charge if you managed to bring your account back into credit on the same day.

 

It seems that including the Notice pursuant to s.10 of The Data Protection Act 1998 with my letter of complaint seemed to do the trick in getting a response - although not a very exciting one yet:

 

Customer Service Recovery Centre

125 Colmore Road

Birmingham

B3 3SF

 

Date: 4th September 2006

 

Dear Miss Lucid,

 

A copy of your letter of 26th August has been passed to me and I have been asked to write to you on behalf of the bank.

 

I’m currently reviewing your file and will write to you in due course. In the meantime, may I thank you for your continuing patience.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Jean Campbell

Assistant Manager

Basically I sent them a letter very similiar to Mindzai's first letter of complaint, pointing out that the balance is in dispute and reminding them of the FSA's position on retaliatory action etc. I'm sure there won't be a particularly exciting outcome to this but it's nice to have actually received acknowledgement that they got my letter.

 

Unfortunately it seems that the Collections Centre are still treating our joint account as though it's two seperate accounts - they are continuing to contact me and Mindzai seperately about it, and it seems as though each of us are at different stages of the arrears. Just to remind you Mindzai received an enforcement notice for this account on 1st September and they stated the agreement was going to be terminated on 8th September. So far we haven't seen any sign of this termination although as you know Mindzai sent them a very stongly worded letter so maybe they got the message. On 5th September I received this (a slightly altered version of one they had sent me previously):

 

Collections Centre

Brighton BN1 4BE

 

Date: 4th September 2006

 

Dear Miss Lucid,

 

We wrote to you recently, requesting payment of your arrears or that you make immediate contact.

 

We are disappointed to note that our records show your account as detailed below is still in arrears and no agreement has been made.

 

Product A/C No Arrears

 

Cheque Account xxxxxxxxxx 254.78

 

Total payment now due : £254.78

 

If you have recently paid the arrears in full and can ensure future payments will be made on time, you do not need to contact us. However, if this is not the case you must telephone the above number immediately.

 

The current conduct of this account may involve you in additional charges, it is also likely to affect your ability to obtain future credit, not only with Lloyds TSB Bank plc, but from other credit granters, such as, other banks, building societies, store card issuers and hire purchase providers.

 

Important information is enclosed covering:

 

* The charges you may incur.

 

* Consequences of continued late payment.

 

* What to do if you have additional accounts with Lloyds TSB bank plc not shown above.

 

* Payment methods available including payment by debit/credit card.

 

* Making contact with us.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Manager, Collections Centre

 

General Information

Charges:

Charges will be applied whilst your accounts are under the control of our Collection Centre. The initial charge of £25.00 will be followed by charges of £17.50. These charges will apply for each Lloyds TSB plc bank account shown on the enclosed letter.

 

The number of charges applied will be determined by the length of time that it takes to agree an acceptable repayment arrangement with us. You will find any charges on your statement at least 14 days before we add them to your account (except for a Flexible Savings or 60 Day Notice account which do not offer regular statements).

 

Likely Consequences of Continued Default:

In addition to any charges listed in the enclosed letter, continued late/non payment of your accounts could affect your ability to obtain finance in the future, not just within Lloyds TSB Bank plc, but from other credit granters, such as, other banks, building societies, store card issuers, hire purchase providers.

 

Additional Lloyds TSB Bank plc Accounts:

Should you have any additional Lloyds TSB plc accounts with monies available, we may transfer funds from these accounts to credit the account in arrears.

I love the second sentence: "We are disappointed to note that our records show your account as detailed below is still in arrears and no agreement has been made." Either these letters are automated, which I imagine is the case, or they are just completely ignoring the one letter I've sent them and the two that Mindzai has sent them stating that we will not pay any arrears until our dispute is over.

 

But even more I love the consistency of it all bearing in mind this is a joint account. Mindzai has received an enforcement notice and has been told they are going to terminate the agreement, whereas I am still at the 'please pay us back' stage. I was going to write them a second letter but out of principle I'm not going to. As I said they received a letter from Mindzai on 5th September (which he also CCd to Customer Recovery) and both had the s10 notice attached. I think we've written to them enough times for them to get the idea. As I said they all seem to be automated and they don't seem to be following through with any of their actions - at the moment anyway.

 

Lucid

[lucid]

I received a response today to my letter of complaint and the s.10 Data Protection notice - although they only refer to the Data Protection notice.

 

Customer Service Recovery Centre

125 Colmore Road

Birmingham

B3 3SF

 

Date: 11th September 2006

 

Dear Miss Lucid,

 

Thank you for your recent letter, which incorporates a notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act (Data Protection Act). I have assumed that the processing referred to in your notice is the registration of default information with credit reference agencies. If my assumption is incorrect please let me have the details of the processing that your notice concerns.

 

I must advise you that we are unable to comply with your notice, since we believe that the data that we disclose to credit reference agencies is accurate and we are therefore not in breach of the Fourth Data Protection Principle. I enclose a leaflet that gives the addresses of the agencies we use so that you can obtain a copy of your credit file and check your personal data.

 

With reference to your comments about the First Data Protection Principle, we have complied in that you were informed about the uses and disclosures of personal data at the time of account opening and we have fulfilled what the Act refers to as the “fair processing conditions”. Your data has been processed in accordance with your Data Protection Act rights so there is no breach of the Sixth Principle.

 

We do not accept that we are processing your personal data in a way that causes or is likely to cause substantial unwarranted damage or substantial unwarranted distress. We believe that we are justified in passing your data on to credit reference agencies.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Jean Campbell

Assistant Manager

As far as I can tell they are informing me that they haven't put a default notice on my credit report. But they do say "... we are unable to comply with your notice, since we believe that the data that we disclose to credit reference agencies is accurate and we are therefore not in breach of the Fourth Data Protection Principle." I'm not really sure what they are saying here. They know that they can't pass on any information while the account is in dispute.

 

The problem is we recently got our credit reports from Experian and Equifax (but didn't feel it was necessary to get one from Callcredit as well). But unfortunately between four credit reports there was not one single mention of Lloyds anywhere. I don't know if this should be the case as I'm sure other people with Lloyds have mentioned they've seen information on Experian or Equifax reports. So at the moment we have no idea whether Lloyds have ever put status codes on our reports - or passed on information while the accounts have been in dispute. Is there anybody who knows whether we should have information from Lloyds on these two reports? I don't know if I'm correct but I expected to at least see their name mentioned on there at some point.

 

Thanks a lot. Lucid

[reload]

I'm awaiting registration info on my own credit report from Experian at the minute Lucid - I know my credit rating blows the proverbial goat, mainly because of Lloyds, so I'm almost certain I'll be able to say what sort of format Lloyds appear on Experian's report as. Will get back to you as soon as I can.

[lucid]

Hi reload,

 

Thanks a lot for that. I probably sound as though I'm being really suspicious but I can't see how between both of our reports (from both agencies) there is not one single mention of Lloyds. At the moment there is nothing bad on our credit reports but I find this surprising because when I opened a parachute account I went for the A&L Premier Direct (Mindzai was successful in opening one) and I got an email saying that I wouldn't be able to open that one and was given their standard current account instead. Also a little while ago I tried to open an Abbey business account and was turned down for that - the only company that could have put negative information on my credit report would have to be Lloyds.

 

Anyway we will have to see. Thanks again and it will be interesting to see what you find reload.

 

Lucid

[elsinore]

Trouble is Lucid,we are all in danger of becoming obsessed by these damned CRAs. Perhaps we forget that there are other factors which come into play, especially with a business account, when a bank makes such a decision. Maybe Natweststaffmember and/or Thegoodsamaritan could remind us of what factors, other than a dodgy credit report, might cause a bank to refuse.

 

Nothing implied, you understand, you can open an account with me anytime, lol !!

 

Elsinore

[lucid]

Hi elsinore,

 

Yes I understand what you mean and if it wasn't for us claiming back our charges I probably would have never checked the report - certainly not any time soon anyway. I was just surprised that Lloyds are not mentioned on there even once. It probably doesn't mean anything at all, but I was just expecting to have received a couple of status codes from Lloyds after all of the charges we've had - obviously I'm not complaining if they haven't!

 

Lucid

[Mindzai]

We should have something from Lloyds on there somewhere I'd have thought, at least a record that they'd run a credit check before giving us overdrafts. Oh well, having nothing from them on there can only be a good thing.

[elsinore]

There could be a few people on here willing to buy that credit report from you!

If you're really miffed at not having anything from LTSB on there, you can have some of mine!!

 

Free!

 

Elsinore;)

[lucid]

Hi everyone,

 

We've now received all of our claim forms back from the court and have even had our claims acknowledged!

 

12th Sep - we received our Notice of Issue from the court for all 3 of our claims. The claims were all deemed to be served on 10th September.

 

14th Sep - we received a duplicate letter from Lloyds regarding the Data Protection Notice we had sent them (this time it was addressed to both of us).

 

15th Sep - we each received a Notice that Acknowledgement Has Been Filed by Sechiari Clark & Mitchell (regarding our sole account claims).

 

16th Sep - we received an acknowledgement from SC&M for our joint account claim.

 

So they have got until 8th October to do something and although we'll be counting down the days we're not expecting anything to happen until the last minute. Still we don't have a problem with this at all as our contractual interest is increasing daily at very good rates.

 

I don't want to speak too soon but we haven't heard anything else about the "enforcement notice" they were going to issue against Mindzai or the extra charges & interest they were going to begin adding. Maybe those strong worded letters paid off and they've finally realised we are going to be proceeding regardless with what they try to threaten us with.

 

Lucid

[elsinore]

Nice work M & L. Looking forward to a rewarding conclusion for you.

 

Elsinore

[lucid]

Thanks Elsinore.

[coral123]

Hi M&L

 

Was going to start a new thread "are ltsb changing tactics" but after reading "are the banks changing path" started yesterday I think it can only confuse people even more.

 

I'm attempting to sort out my son's problem with charges from ltsb and up to last week all had gone pretty much as I'd expected from following the usual pattern experienced by most people challenging ltsb.

 

LBA was sent on 31st August and they printed their "final response" on 1st September, so now I'm preparing for the next step (moneyclaim).

 

However, instead of an enforcement notice from ltsb as you received, he's had a letter from Sechiari, Clark& Mitchell dated 12th September threatening legal action against him if he doesn't pay up within 7 days (by tomorrow). As every penny of the £146.92 they're asking for is charges which we're disputing (total charges £201.23) we were rather bemused. Like yourselves, I didn't think they could take any further action until the dispute has been resolved?

 

 

"We are instructed by Lloyds TSB Bank plc who advise us that despite several reminders your account remains out of order. This letter, therefore, makes formal demand on you to repay the balance as quoted above plus interest which is accruing on a daily basis. The due amount is based on the account balance today, receipt of any further debits or credits or a variation in interest rate will result in amendment of the amount payable.

 

If payment is not received by our client within 7 days from receipt of this letter, Court proceedings may be issued against you without further reference. Once proceedings have been issued you may be liable for legal costs incurred. In order to avoid this action you should make payment into a Lloyds TSB branch. Alternatively you can send a cheque made payable to our client to the above address. Pleas write your account number on the reverse of the cheque.

 

Furthermore, you are reminded that if we do not receive a satisfactory response from you, it is the policy of Lloyds TSB Bank plc to lodge information relating to your failure to pay with the following agencies: Experian ltd, Equifax Europe(UK) and Callcredit plc.

 

You should also be aware that it is common practice within the finance industry for this information to be used when assessing your ability to manage your own finances and it is our understanding that this may also impact in the case of family members or associates where they have relevant financial association with you. Furthermore, if the debt is settled within the prescribed period this fact will also be recorded, but will not lead to the original default being removed.

 

REMEMBER, THIS IS A FORMAL DEMAND PRIOR TO THE COMMENCEMENT OF LEGAL PROCEEDINGS AND YOU ARE STRONGLY URGED TO MAKE IMMEDIATE PAYMENT TO AVOID THE ABOVE ACTION.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Sechiari, Clark & Mitchell

 

Can't find anyone who's had this response, and as soon as the letter arrived I figured it for a retaliation (he had a threatening phone call from ltsb just before LBA was sent) Anyone any thoughts on this one?